George ... door is open for the Bengals to bring him back but as we inch closer to that March 9 deadline, I'd say it closes slightly. Out of 100? Let's go with 45 (as of today).
Iloka is a must sign IMHO. Not getting it done is akin to not vaccinating your kid. (Both are dumb as shit)
How many years did we struggle at the safety spot? How many years did we call up Chris Crocker to come back from ref school? How many Robert Sands types did we go through in the Marvin years before hitting in the draft? How many Gibril Wilson and Nate Clements did we use as band-aids before their AARP kicked in? Taylor Mayes, Chinidum Ndukwie (Sp?)... The list goes on and on.
Anybody think any of those names rival Iloka?
God love Reggie Nelson, and I'd love to have huim back, but he'll be 33 come week 2 of the regular season. 33 vs 25, which seems like a brighter future/bigger priority to you?
If his signing was in question, one may ask: Why the hell didn't they tag him?
Out of the 11 position groups, safety has the 9th lowest franchise tag amount. At 10.8 mil, it's followed only by tight end and kicker.
To put that into perspective, Leon Hall had a 9.6 cap hit last year. A 30 year old, NICKEL corner, COMING OFF TWO ACHILIES INJURIES, had a cap hit of 9.6 mil last season. And the team didn't bat an eye at paying him that amount.
Did they ask him to restructure, everyone knowing full well he'd have to, because he'd see nowhere near that on the open market? Nope. Did they consider cutting him? I'm guessing probably not.
So, would someone please explain to me, how it would be acceptable, under any circumstance, for Iloka to walk this year? We can pay Hall a near 10 mil, but our 25 year old, best safety we drafted since probably Fulcher, nah, he can hit free agency? I mean, haven't we been hoarding all this cap space for contracts exactly like this one?
There couple of things that will bother the hell out of me if we lose Iloka.
1.) Why didn't the sign him last August? It was an easy deal to get done.
2.) Why don't they value him? He has everything you want in a safety size, athlecisim, nastiness, and Smarts.
3.) Its time for the Bengals to move on from the older players like Nelson, Hall, and Pacman they had their chance and they failed time to move forward with the younger core.
(03-02-2016, 11:46 PM)jowczarski Wrote: Thanks for checking in and listening!
George ... door is open for the Bengals to bring him back but as we inch closer to that March 9 deadline, I'd say it closes slightly. Out of 100? Let's go with 45 (as of today).
Thanks Jim. The BBP is my favorite part of the coverage, appreciate you guys doing the work.
I have always wanted George back but you guys were making some solid points on Illoka/williams. And then with Sanu/Jones. If they do contract thunder dome with Marv and Mo. And Mo gets the cash, do you see them drafting a WR high to backstop Mo or are they confident he can step In and be that #2 WR/ #3 offensive target?
(03-03-2016, 12:58 AM)J24 Wrote: There couple of things that will bother the hell out of me if we lose Iloka.
1.) Why didn't the sign him last August? It was an easy deal to get done.
2.) Why don't they value him? He has everything you want in a safety size, athlecisim, nastiness, and Smarts.
3.) Its time for the Bengals to move on from the older players like Nelson, Hall, and Pacman they had their chance and they failed time to move forward with the younger core.
Hall I will agree with..... But Nelson and Jones played elite level last year. I also think Nelson handles a lot of the defense on the back end.
I think coaches value both Nelson and Iloka, but Mike Brown (much like the center position) just won't invest in the Safety position. High in the draft, or by paying big contracts. Just not a position he prioritizes. I'll be disappointed to lose a home grown talent like Iloka, but not shocked. If we paid Leon 9 million for a year, they could have tagged him for a million more. There's not much urgency in our free agents outside of Vinnie Rey, and we never win bidding wars.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
People are so worried about losing Iloka, but I think Shawn Williams looked great when he had to step in for 4 games. Did anyone really notice that Iloka was out? I sure didn't.
That said, I wouldn't mind keeping Iloka and sliding Williams over to Nelson's spot. That may be the best option as I think Williams has good potential to be a real ball hawk. It's so tough to let Nelson go though. I mean, we're talking about a dude that had nearly half of our INT's and is a leader for this defense.
33 or not, that's going to be a big loss. A bigger loss than Iloka would be, IMO. I understand the age difference, but still.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(03-03-2016, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: People are so worried about losing Iloka, but I think Shawn Williams looked great when he had to step in for 4 games. Did anyone really notice that Iloka was out? I sure didn't.
That said, I wouldn't mind keeping Iloka and sliding Williams over to Nelson's spot. That may be the best option as I think Williams has good potential to be a real ball hawk. It's so tough to let Nelson go though. I mean, we're talking about a dude that had nearly half of our INT's and is a leader for this defense.
33 or not, that's going to be a big loss. A bigger loss than Iloka would be, IMO. I understand the age difference, but still.
Thought Shaun Williams played very well too.
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(03-03-2016, 12:58 AM)J24 Wrote: There couple of things that will bother the hell out of me if we lose Iloka.
1.) Why didn't the sign him last August? It was an easy deal to get done.
2.) Why don't they value him? He has everything you want in a safety size, athlecisim, nastiness, and Smarts.
3.) Its time for the Bengals to move on from the older players like Nelson, Hall, and Pacman they had their chance and they failed time to move forward with the younger core.
1. They offered a contract in august he chose to bet on himself in free agency.
2. They do value him. But hes not the only guy that needs paid... cant overpay everyone.
3. Pacman and Nelson i dont think you can say either FAILED at all which is why the high demand for their services.
(03-03-2016, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: People are so worried about losing Iloka, but I think Shawn Williams looked great when he had to step in for 4 games. Did anyone really notice that Iloka was out? I sure didn't.
That said, I wouldn't mind keeping Iloka and sliding Williams over to Nelson's spot. That may be the best option as I think Williams has good potential to be a real ball hawk. It's so tough to let Nelson go though. I mean, we're talking about a dude that had nearly half of our INT's and is a leader for this defense.
33 or not, that's going to be a big loss. A bigger loss than Iloka would be, IMO. I understand the age difference, but still.
We played Blaine gabbert and Austin Davis in two of those games. Alex Smith threw for nearly 400 yards against us, Brock Oswiler lit us up in the 2nd half, and Pittsburgh dominated us on third down in the game where Iloka missed all but one drive.
(03-03-2016, 07:58 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Hall I will agree with..... But Nelson and Jones played elite level last year. I also think Nelson handles a lot of the defense on the back end.
(03-03-2016, 02:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: 1. They offered a contract in august he chose to bet on himself in free agency.
2. They do value him. But hes not the only guy that needs paid... cant overpay everyone.
3. Pacman and Nelson i dont think you can say either FAILED at all which is why the high demand for their services.
1.) No they didn't they were working on a deal with green. That's why Iloka was a bit upset at the beginning of the year because he wanted a deal done.
2.) Flat out disagree. He and Marvin Jones are the only two players worth a damn right now the rest are either old or not good enough.
3.)our goal is to win a Superbowl they did not help get it done. Time for new blood.
Pacman and Nelson are old that's why you move away from them. Get rid of a player a year early instead of a year late.
(03-03-2016, 12:14 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, would someone please explain to me, how it would be acceptable, under any circumstance, for Iloka to walk this year? We can pay Hall a near 10 mil, but our 25 year old, best safety we drafted since probably Fulcher, nah, he can hit free agency? I mean, haven't we been hoarding all this cap space for contracts exactly like this one?
Why is this even a question?
I don't think that answer exists. Haven't seen it here anyway.
(03-03-2016, 06:19 PM)J24 Wrote: We played Blaine gabbert and Austin Davis in two of those games. Alex Smith threw for nearly 400 yards against us, Brock Oswiler lit us up in the 2nd half, and Pittsburgh dominated us on third down in the game where Iloka missed all but one drive.
That's a lot of bending and stretching to make a guy look bad.
1. You do realize that Blaine Gabbert was pretty good last year, right? He had a 58.3 rating against us and a 92.2 rating in his other 7 starts.
2. Austin Davis isn't good, but am I supposed to be upset that our D held him to 3 points?
3. Alex Smith threw for 386 because he was down the entire game. Going into the 4th, he was down 29-15. Not to mention he was sacked 5 times thanks in part to wonderful coverage. He did throw for 134 yards in the 4th quarter, but almost every throw was listed as "short" by PFR, meaning he was taking the short throws we were giving him. He did burn Dennard for 44 yards:
(03-03-2016, 07:58 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Hall I will agree with..... But Nelson and Jones played elite level last year. I also think Nelson handles a lot of the defense on the back end.
(03-03-2016, 02:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: 1. They offered a contract in august he chose to bet on himself in free agency.
2. They do value him. But hes not the only guy that needs paid... cant overpay everyone.
3. Pacman and Nelson i dont think you can say either FAILED at all which is why the high demand for their services.
(03-03-2016, 08:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That's a lot of bending and stretching to make a guy look bad.
1. You do realize that Blaine Gabbert was pretty good last year, right? He had a 58.3 rating against us and a 92.2 rating in his other 7 starts.
2. Austin Davis isn't good, but am I supposed to be upset that our D held him to 3 points?
3. Alex Smith threw for 386 because he was down the entire game. Going into the 4th, he was down 29-15. Not to mention he was sacked 5 times thanks in part to wonderful coverage. He did throw for 134 yards in the 4th quarter, but almost every throw was listed as "short" by PFR, meaning he was taking the short throws we were giving him. He did burn Dennard for 44 yards:
4. 3rd downs? Lol. Our pass D was outstanding in that game and we pretty much won that game thanks to Shawn Williams:
But yeah...3rd downs.
1.) Blaine Gabbert threw 10 Tds to 7 interceptions last season he wasn't "good".
2.) The Bengals should stop Davis.
3.) The chiefs scored on 7 drives that game and had no trouble moving the ball that game at all until they got in the redzone.
4.) Steelers converted 8-14 third downs in the week 14 match up.
(03-03-2016, 09:30 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Blaine Gabbert threw 10 Tds to 7 interceptions last season he wasn't "good".
2.) The Bengals should stop Davis.
3.) The chiefs scored on 7 drives that game and had no trouble moving the ball that game at all until they got in the redzone.
4.) Steelers converted 8-14 third downs in the week 14 match up.
1. Again, he had a 92.2 rating with 9 TDs to 4 INTs in his other 7 starts. So yes. He was good...when not facing the Bengals.
2. They should and they did. So Williams held it down, amirite?
3. Dude did you not read what I wrote? The Chiefs got blown out that day. Teams that get blown out pass a lot. Alex Smith had a season high 45 attempts and our D did a fine job holding them to 21 points.
4. And? Our secondary held Ben to a 57.8 rating with 3 INT's. We got the W while holding the Steelers high octane offense to 10 points. Williams had the game clinching INT. You look at all that and think Williams had a bad day? That's laughable.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(03-04-2016, 01:03 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Again, he had a 92.2 rating with 9 TDs to 4 INTs in his other 7 starts. So yes. He was good...when not facing the Bengals.
2. They should and they did. So Williams held it down, amirite?
3. Dude did you not read what I wrote? The Chiefs got blown out that day. Teams that get blown out pass a lot. Alex Smith had a season high 45 attempts and our D did a fine job holding them to 21 points.
4. And? Our secondary held Ben to a 57.8 rating with 3 INT's. We got the W while holding the Steelers high octane offense to 10 points. Williams had the game clinching INT. You look at all that and think Williams had a bad day? That's laughable.
1.) again he sucks.
2.) again. It was against a bad qb.
3.) dude they marched down the field at will and got stalled in the redzone. Fine job at redzone defense but not overall defense.
4.) I was talking about the 2nd steeler game.
5.) I never said either Williams or Nelson was bad. My whole reason for wanting Iloka back was a.) I think he his really good and can get better and B.) I prefer him over Nelson because Nelson is old and Iloka is about to hit his prime as a player.
6.) I think Williams will be a good starter next to Iloka and thought Williams did a good job filling in for both. Don't know where you got Williams was a bad player.
(03-04-2016, 01:17 AM)J24 Wrote: 1.) again he sucks.
2.) again. It was against a bad qb.
3.) dude they marched down the field at will and got stalled in the redzone. Fine job at redzone defense but not overall defense.
4.) I was talking about the 2nd steeler game.
5.) I never said either Williams or Nelson was bad. My whole reason for wanting Iloka back was a.) I think he his really good and can get better and B.) I prefer him over Nelson because Nelson is old and Iloka is about to hit his prime as a player.
6.) I think Williams will be a good starter next to Iloka and thought Williams did a good job filling in for both. Don't know where you got Williams was a bad player.
1. He didn't suck against other teams last year, as evidenced by the 92.2 rating. He had easily his worst performance against the Bengals. Those are facts. "He sucks" is not fact.
2. Right. Doing your job doesn't count when your opponent is bad. Got it.
3. We were giving up short throws with a 2 touchdown lead. You just don't get it.
4. Ok. In the 2nd Steelers game, our D gave up 19 points (not counting 2 TDs that came directly from McCarron INTs). They held Ben to 0 TDs and 1 INT. The secondary again did a fine job. Especially considering the circumstances.
5. Ok. I kind of agree with you here. I wouldn't mind bringing back Iloka and sliding Williams over, but honestly I'm torn on Nelson vs Iloka. As long as we keep one, I'm good.
6. You've just spent your last several posts painting Williams in a bad light by suggesting there was a big drop off when he was in. Now you're saying he did a good job filling in?
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
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