Moritz Boehringer = Future Bengal

[SunsetBengal]

(04-01-2016, 10:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is like telling a joke about how stupid a certain race of people are.  The only way it seems funny is if you also think that race of people are stupid.

Since some of us see nothing stupid in doing what every other team in the league does we don't see any humor in it.  

So, you are taking offense at the OP, thinking of it as a slam against the organization?  If that is the case, I'd say that the OP is certainly entitled to expressing that opinion.  Most of us that are regulars have been life long Bengal fans, and have all experienced the joys and pains associated with being a fan of this team.  For you, as another fan of the team, to criticize another fan for his opinion, is what is "over the top".

Why do I support Cage the Bengal's thread?  Because it was funny.  Why was it funny?  Because it is no secret that the Bengals have one of the smallest scouting departments in the league.  The idea that an NFL team can operate with so few scouts in this day and age can be viewed in one of two ways;  A.  It's a wonder that they ever field a competitive squad.  B.  Wow, what a model of efficiency.  Now, most of us are sensible enough to know that "B" is the obvious correct answer, but many would still argue that if the Bengals would invest in doubling their scouting department, "we'd have won all the Super Bowls".  The fact that the lifelong fans of this team have never seen a championship, and stuck with them through the "dark ages", and continue to back them unconditionally should tell you something about their faith and dedication to this team.

My question to you is.  Who are you, as another fan of the same team, to criticize another fan for expressing their fanhood in a jocular manner, on April Fool's Day, no less?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-01-2016, 10:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is like telling a joke about how stupid a certain race of people are.  The only way it seems funny is if you also think that race of people are stupid.

Since some of us see nothing stupid in doing what every other team in the league does we don't see any humor in it.  

"We"? You French or something?

[milksheikh]

(04-02-2016, 07:38 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: "We"? You French or something?

LOL.

[muskiesfan]

This is how this goes with certain people.

Example 1:
Me: I wish the Bengals would be more active in free agency.
Them: How did that work for (insert whatever team you want that overspent and failed)?
Me: I didn't say I wanted them to overspend. I even said they do great at managing the cap. I would just like them to be more active.
Them: I already made you and your argument look stupid. You don't know football like I do and you're a whiner.

Example 2:
Me: I wish the Bengals wouldn't use high draft picks (rounds 1-3) on project players.
Them: Every team drafts projects.
Me: I understand, but your high round picks you hope can contribute Day 1.
Them: You can't just draft for now, you have to draft for the future.
Me: Again, not what I'm saying. Using high draft picks on projects is basically wasting the pick.
Them: Guess we should just trade our picks away. I just made you and your argument look stupid. You don't know football like I do and you're a whiner.

I could give more examples, but I won't. It's hard to have the most basic of conversations when people look down their nose at everyone.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2016, 08:57 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: This is how this goes with certain people.


Example 2:
Me: I wish the Bengals wouldn't use high draft picks (rounds 1-3) on project players.
Them: Every team drafts projects.
Me: I understand, but your high round picks you hope can contribute Day 1.
Them: You can't just draft for now, you have to draft for the future.
Me: Again, not what I'm saying. Using high draft picks on projects is basically wasting the pick.
Them: Guess we should just trade our picks away. I just made you and your argument look stupid. You don't know football like I do and you're a whiner.

In this example "Me" still refuses to acknowledge that the Bengals don't use more high draft picks on projects than any other team in the league.

This is why I am so persistent.  People just don't get it.  I don't say anything when people criticize the Bengals for legit reason, but when they don't look at what other teams do and just say that "if the Bengals did it it must be wrong" I will correct them.

And I will also come back strong on people who claim that if the Bengals don't do what they want then the only explanation is that the Bengals "don't want to win" or that fans who support the Bengals are "satisfied with mediocrity".

I don't just blindly support everything the bengals do.  In fact I criticize them myself.  But I will defend them against people who don't know what other teams do, or who claim they are not trying to win.

[fredtoast]

Here is my final word on this, then I am moving on.

Some people act like Hunt came here not knowing how to put on a football helmet and tried to head the football over the goal post.  the fact was that he was a 3 year starter who was first team all-conference and MVP of a bowl game.  Pretty much every major draft exper had him ranked in the 2nd-3rd round range.  the Bengals did not reach to take him.

Hunt did not work out, but we had another 2nd round pick who was the Big Ten Defensive lineman of the year and a Consensus All-American, but Devon Still did not work out either.  Does that mean we should make fun of the Bengals for drafting him in the second round?

In 2015 there were players from Samford (not Stanford) and Hobart college taken in the first two rounds.  In 2014 The Raiders got a pretty good player (Khalil Mack) from Buffalo and there were also players from Northern Illinois, Fresno State, Nevada, BYU, and Eastern Illinois taken in the first two rounds.  In 2013 three of the first 12 picks in the draft came from Central Michigan, BYU, and Houston.  The first two round also included guys from Florida International, San Diego State, Southern Miss, SMU, Rice, Marshall, and SE Louisiana.

[Junglejuice]

Hunt has another year to get something out of him.


But as for projects...... I have no problem with the team swinging for the fences here and there with how deep our Football team is built for years to come.

I laugh when people act like 2-3 rounders will and should be starters..... The numbers of guys who turn out in reality say otherwise.
The Bengals at this point are pretty much drafting BPA or for the future in general. Some fans cant wrap their heads around the fact that the good
teams don't draft guys to start their rookie years.

So swing away FO.

I trust you.
You have earned it.

[muskiesfan]

(04-02-2016, 10:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In this example "Me" still refuses to acknowledge that the Bengals don't use more high draft picks on projects than any other team in the league.

This is why I am so persistent.  People just don't get it.  I don't say anything when people criticize the Bengals for legit reason, but when they don't look at what other teams do and just say that "if the Bengals did it it must be wrong" I will correct them.

And I will also come back strong on people who claim that if the Bengals don't do what they want then the only explanation is that the Bengals "don't want to win" or that fans who support the Bengals are "satisfied with mediocrity".

I don't just blindly support everything the bengals do.  In fact I criticize them myself.  But I will defend them against people who don't know what other teams do, or who claim they are not trying to win.

I wasn't comparing the Bengals to the rest of the league and I wasn't saying the Bengals are always wrong. I think the Hunt pick was a bad pick. I said using the highest picks for projects seems too early to me. The Bengals draft well, but not so much on their recent few years when taking early project guys. Again, not bashing the team or whining or anything of the sort. I would rather them take their projects later in the draft.

(04-02-2016, 11:26 AM)Junglejuice Wrote: Hunt has another year to get something out of him.


But as for projects...... I have no problem with the team swinging for the fences here and there with how deep our Football team is built for years to come.

I laugh when people act like 2-3 rounders will and should be starters..... The numbers of guys who turn out in reality say otherwise.
The Bengals at this point are pretty much drafting BPA or for the future in general.   Some fans cant wrap their heads around the fact that the good
teams don't draft guys to start their rookie years.

So swing away FO.

I trust you.
You have earned it.

No one has said that every 2nd or 3rd rounder becomes a starter or even quality player. That is the hope and expectation when drafting someone that early though. Drafting a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round that you're hoping to make productive in year 3 seems way too early to me. We all know that football is a war of attrition. There may be an injury that may mean that project needs to play sooner than hoped/expected. Again, not saying that the team is bad at drafting overall, but their projects are very slow to pay dividends if they ever do at all. Why is it so bad to draft a more polished player, a player considered to be more NFL ready in the first couple rounds? If you miss on either, you just missed. On the surface, at least the non-project player looks like he should be able to contribute in a pinch.

I don't understand how what I'm saying is so hard to get. I'm not saying the Bengals miss more than other teams. I'm not saying the Bengals are worse than other teams. I'm not saying that the Bengals are doing everything wrong. What I am saying is that the team I watch, my favorite team, the team that I have rooted for my entire life is the team that I pay the most attention to and would like them to wait just a little bit longer on drafting project players. Whoever you draft in the 2nd or 3rd might be the next Moch, Simpson, or Hunt any way. So why not go after the guy that looks the part now instead of someone you hope you can turn into a good player years down the road. Take that guy in the 4th or later.

[fredtoast]

(04-02-2016, 12:56 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I wasn't comparing the Bengals to the rest of the league and I wasn't saying the Bengals are always wrong. I think the Hunt pick was a bad pick. I said using the highest picks for projects seems too early to me. The Bengals draft well, but not so much on their recent few years when taking early project guys. Again, not bashing the team or whining or anything of the sort. I would rather them take their projects later in the draft.



No one has said that every 2nd or 3rd rounder becomes a starter or even quality player. That is the hope and expectation when drafting someone that early though. Drafting a guy in the 2nd or 3rd round that you're hoping to make productive in year 3 seems way too early to me. We all know that football is a war of attrition. There may be an injury that may mean that project needs to play sooner than hoped/expected. Again, not saying that the team is bad at drafting overall, but their projects are very slow to pay dividends if they ever do at all. Why is it so bad to draft a more polished player, a player considered to be more NFL ready in the first couple rounds? If you miss on either, you just missed. On the surface, at least the non-project player looks like he should be able to contribute in a pinch.

I don't understand how what I'm saying is so hard to get. I'm not saying the Bengals miss more than other teams. I'm not saying the Bengals are worse than other teams. I'm not saying that the Bengals are doing everything wrong. What I am saying is that the team I watch, my favorite team, the team that I have rooted for my entire life is the team that I pay the most attention to and would like them to wait just a little bit longer on drafting project players. Whoever you draft in the 2nd or 3rd might be the next Moch, Simpson, or Hunt any way. So why not go after the guy that looks the part now instead of someone you hope you can turn into a good player years down the road. Take that guy in the 4th or later.

Very simple answer.  If you draft based only on who can play year one then you miss out on better players.  If you think a guy will be a better player you take him sooner in the draft.  Only half of the players taken in the second round last year started as rookies.


And you still don't understand that Hunt was not supposed to take 3 years to contribute.  He was not that raw.  He was expected to step in and contribute as soon as anyone.  He was not some guy who had never played the game.  He was a 3 year started at a D-1 school who had been voted first team all-conference and Defensive MVP of a Bowl game.  Just because a guy comes from a small school that does not mean he is not supposed to play as soon as guys from large schools.  Same with Simpson.  

You can't take guys like Simpson or Hunt in the 4th round because other teams will take them before then.  That is the point I am trying to get across.

[CageTheBengal]

(04-02-2016, 12:03 AM)BengalsIronMan Wrote: Don't really know why my text was put in that quote  

Sometimes when you hit the quote button it will put your keyboard cursor in the quote box and you have to click back out.

[Aquapod770]

(04-01-2016, 01:07 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: dude you didnt even mention his 4.4 40

this is the type of player id like to develop on the back end of our WR group.

Yup. You can't coach athleticism. Unless our coaches are completely incompetent, there's a very good chance he ends up a good WR.

[XenoMorph]

(04-02-2016, 02:44 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Yup. You can't coach athleticism. Unless our coaches are completely incompetent, there's a very good chance he ends up a good WR.

Urban seems to be pretty good for us.

[BengalChris]

(04-01-2016, 01:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Really?  What was the funny part?  To me it only seems humorous if you think everyone who drafts a foreign project player is really stupid.

Otherwise I don't see how it could be a joke.

Well, considering that Hunt has been a wasted bust and Marv still has him on the roster and seems to love to overdraft projects no one would draft that high, then I thought it was quite funny that someone found an obscure player the Bengals might take a flier on early in the draft.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2016, 11:52 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, considering that Hunt has been a wasted bust and Marv still has him on the roster and seems to love to overdraft projects no one would draft that high, then I thought it was quite funny that someone found an obscure player the Bengals might take a flier on early in the draft.

Another one out of touch with reality.

[CageTheBengal]

(04-04-2016, 11:52 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Well, considering that Hunt has been a wasted bust and Marv still has him on the roster and seems to love to overdraft projects no one would draft that high, then I thought it was quite funny that someone found an obscure player the Bengals might take a flier on early in the draft.

(04-04-2016, 12:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Another one out of touch with reality.

Pull the string and watch him go.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2016, 12:39 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Pull the string and watch him go.

I see no shame in the fact that I do not suffer ignorance in silence.

But I can certainly see why you are so defensive.

[CageTheBengal]

(04-04-2016, 01:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I see no shame in the fact that I do not suffer ignorance in silence.

But I can certainly see why you are so defensive.

You have been nothing but defensive this entire thread.

The fact that you have to get the last word in on every post supports that too.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2016, 01:57 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: You have been nothing but defensive this entire thread.

The fact that you have to get the last word in on every post supports that too.

Says the guy who is trying desperately to get the last word. (while refusing to address the actual point of the debate)




Listen, here is how it works.  If someone posts something that is wrong i am going to correct him.  If that bothers you then put me on ignore, because as far as I am concerned that is the whole idea of having a debate on a message board.

I do not suffer ignorace in silence.