Since Jeremy Hill came into the league. . .

[bengalsturntup5532]

I seem to remember, they never got Jeremy hill in any type of groove either,but like I said I think the o line play and him losing a step last year is what made him look bad.

[BengalChris]

(04-23-2016, 04:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No matter what your rookie year was, 3.6 yards per carry is always bad.

More cow mutilations were blamed on Eddie Lacy's stomach last year than all of the UFOs in history combined... and he still had a 4.1 YPC.

Did it look even worse because he had a good rookie season? Yes. Was it still a truly bad year regardless of that? Most certainly.

He still had bad games when he got the ball more. (The lack of getting the ball is often due to his ineffectiveness, you generally can't sustain offensive drives long enough to give a guy a ton of carries if he's getting 2 yards per carry.)  He had 4 games of at least 19 carries, which would get you 304 carries over 16 games, 300 generally being the "heavy workload" territory.

In those 4 games, he averaged 3.23 YPC. Noticeably worse than his season average of 3.56 YPC.

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I will agree with you that Gio was the better back last year in all phases, though.

It still baffles me that in the three games against Pittsburgh in 2015, he only had 13 carries and 7 catches despite taking those 13 carries for 80 yards (6.15 YPC) and those 7 catches for 51 yards (7.29 AVG), while remembering that one of those catches was for 1 yard and a Shazier crown of the helmet to the face. (8.33 AVG without that)... yet they just refused to use the guy.

The Bengals have rarely used Gio in a way that maximizes his talents. His talents aren't running up the middle into the teeth of a defense. He needs to be used in space. The problem with that is that when he's on the field defenses pretty much know how to defend him. He's just not a 3 down back.

If you compare him to a guy like Jamaal Charles, who is a 3 down back, you can see the difference between the two.

I, for one, believe a team is better off having a 3 down back as the starter and a different style back to come in and change things up. Only we don't really have a 3 down back on the roster. Hill is pretty good when he's not coughing up the ball, but we don't throw it him very much, so teams play him tight and his yards are tough ones.

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2016, 09:39 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The Bengals have rarely used Gio in a way that maximizes his talents. His talents aren't running up the middle into the teeth of a defense. He needs to be used in space. The problem with that is that when he's on the field defenses pretty much know how to defend him. He's just not a 3 down back.

I don't follow your logic here.

You say that Gio should just be used out n spce, but theny oiui say it is a bad ides to just use him one way because defenses kniow what to espect.

Are you saying that the Bengals only run Gio up the middle?  Because that is not what I see at all.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-25-2016, 09:39 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The Bengals have rarely used Gio in a way that maximizes his talents. His talents aren't running up the middle into the teeth of a defense. He needs to be used in space. The problem with that is that when he's on the field defenses pretty much know how to defend him. He's just not a 3 down back.

If you compare him to a guy like Jamaal Charles, who is a 3 down back, you can see the difference between the two.

I, for one, believe a team is better off having a 3 down back as the starter and a different style back to come in and change things up. Only we don't really have a 3 down back on the roster. Hill is pretty good when he's not coughing up the ball, but we don't throw it him very much, so teams play him tight and his yards are tough ones.

I agree Gio isn't in Charles' league, but Gio is still underutilized. Not saying I want him to get 20 carries a game, but 20 touches a game would work, say 15 carries, 5 catches a game rather than the 12.7-ish touches a game he gets.

You are repeating a false thing that people keep treating as fact because other people keep repeating it. There's nothing wrong with Gio's ability to run it up the middle.

Running up the middle since Hill has entered the league...
Hill: 3.56 YPC
Gio: 4.28 YPC
Bell: 3.41 YPC
Peterson: 3.79 YPC
Charles: 4.85 YPC

Gio is perfectly fine running it up the middle.


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Oddly enough on that list, I just picked 3 good RBs other than Gio/Hill, and their YPC is high-to-low the exact same order as their weights are light-to-heavy. Not sure if there's something there, but interesting none the less.

[*Nately120*]

(04-25-2016, 09:29 PM)bengalsturntup5532 Wrote: I seem to remember, they never got Jeremy hill in any type of groove either,but like I said I think the o line play and him losing a step last year is what made him look bad.

Meh, when you have Dalton putting up top-tier numbers and you have a dynamic back in Gio, a top TE and WR combo in Eifert and AJ it's sort of hard to justify forcing the ball to a RB who is getting 2 yards per play.

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2016, 10:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You are repeating a false thing that people keep treating as fact because other people keep repeating it. There's nothing wrong with Gio's ability to run it up the middle.

Some smaller backs can be more effective than larger guys running up the middle because they can hit the hole quicker.  But the smaller guys just can't run up the middle 15-20 times a game.

Plus Gio is not really small.  5' 9" 205 is actually kind of thick.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-26-2016, 02:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Some smaller backs can be more effective than larger guys running up the middle because they can hit the hole quicker.  But the smaller guys just can't run up the middle 15-20 times a game.

Plus Gio is not really small.  5' 9" 205 is actually kind of thick.

Nobody runs it up the middle 15-20 times a game. Last year Peterson ran it up the middle 108 times. In Bell's big 2014 season he ran it up the middle 77 times. Lynch in 2014 ran it up the middle 99 times. I think Gio could survive doing it 5-6 times a game.

You're right on him being kind of thick though. Gio is in pretty much the exact same body mold of Ray Rice (5'8, 206). People just get too enamored by the whole overused "Thunder and Lightning!" thing. Maurice Jones-Drew was 5'7, 210. Those two both had stretches where they were among the best starting RBs in the NFL. I don't think size is an issue for Gio.

I think the biggest problem Gio has is the Bengals simply only understand one kind of RB. Rudi (225 lbs)/Benson (227 lbs)/BJGE (220 lbs)/Hill (235 lbs). Hand them the ball, run for 3 yards, do it again. If you break an occasional big run, it's a bonus. Same reason why the rest of the NFL is getting lighter faster LBs and the Bengals have a love for the older style 245-255lb type LBs. (Hint: This is why they can't cover TE or pass catching RB.)

If Gio played for the Pats or Saints, I still think he'd be listed among the better RB in the NFL.