Will Tez play this season? (Coley Harvey)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Paulie G says the goal is for him to play in a couple of Preseason games and be ready for the opener against Oakland.

I hope this is the case if he is 100% by then, but don't rush him back.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-16-2015, 12:41 PM)djs7685 Wrote: That's pretty cool then. I mean, I really liked the pickup from everything I've heard about the guy. I haven't watched tons of college ball recently so I'm not really the most informed in draft discussions. I just go by what I hear from everybody online and from my friends, and I never heard that about Dawson until miraculously he's now the best 4-3 OLB after he's in stripes.

It seems to happen every year with at least a few players that the Bengals end up drafting. I don't hear anything about them pre-draft, then after we take them, "PlayerX is the best at his position! We got him as a steal in the 5th round!" and "PlayerY was actually the #1 player on the Bengals board overall in the whole draft, they just knew nobody else would take him so they could grab him in the 7th!"

A bit exaggerated, but yeah, I always hear about how great these guys are after being picked and they're always guys I didn't see a lot of talk about before the draft by Bengals' fans.

Kinda what I am thinking.....and Bud Dupree was considered a hybrid type of player that could line up at OLB or DE.....I made a general statement in regards to the seeming lack of urgency on their part to address the Burfict question, as well as the Michael Johnson question.  I discussed this at that other place too.  At this point, it seems we gotta hope MJ can return to his old form, and that Burfict will be set......or that an unknown variable can step in his place and shine.

Hopefully, that's what happens, and if it does, we are DEFINITELY set at OT.....


.....and there's this:

"Dawson (6-foot-0, 235 pounds) had a poor combine and has some character issues." Kendricks would have probably been my pick, but not terribly upset with the Dawson pick, it's more about the two OT....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Also....TCU runs a 4-2-5, not a 4-3.....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-16-2015, 12:41 PM)djs7685 Wrote: That's pretty cool then. I mean, I really liked the pickup from everything I've heard about the guy. I haven't watched tons of college ball recently so I'm not really the most informed in draft discussions. I just go by what I hear from everybody online and from my friends, and I never heard that about Dawson until miraculously he's now the best 4-3 OLB after he's in stripes.

It seems to happen every year with at least a few players that the Bengals end up drafting. I don't hear anything about them pre-draft, then after we take them, "PlayerX is the best at his position! We got him as a steal in the 5th round!" and "PlayerY was actually the #1 player on the Bengals board overall in the whole draft, they just knew nobody else would take him so they could grab him in the 7th!"

A bit exaggerated, but yeah, I always hear about how great these guys are after being picked and they're always guys I didn't see a lot of talk about before the draft by Bengals' fans.

I know i have seen this before, but with Dawson he was talked about big time before the draft.

I thought he might fall because of his poor combine and other problems, but as far as on the field
he was definately argued as the best Linebacker at being around the ball and just as a damn fine
football player. This was argued before the Draft.

He fits the 4-3 much better than a 3-4 as well. So, it is not entirely absurd to mention him as one
of the best in this draft class.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-16-2015, 01:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I know i have seen this before, but with Dawson he was talked about big time before the draft.

I thought he might fall because of his poor combine and other problems, but as far as on the field
he was definately argued as the best Linebacker at being around the ball and just as a damn fine
football player. This was argued before the Draft.

He fits the 4-3 much better than a 3-4 as well. So, it is not entirely absurd to mention him as one
of the best in this draft class.

I get what folks are saying here, but if we can't coach people to play the same position in a different scheme, then isn't that an indictment of our coaching?  Yeah, teaching a pass rush specialist to be a cover backer may be a stretch, but teaching an ILB to play any backer position in a 4-3 shouldn't be that damn difficult to do......and with the popularity of the 3-4, the Bengals better learn to coach these kids to do exactly that in the future, or transition themselves to the 3-4......just my $.02.....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-16-2015, 01:47 PM)Wyche Wrote: I get what folks are saying here, but if we can't coach people to play the same position in a different scheme, then isn't that an indictment of our coaching?  Yeah, teaching a pass rush specialist to be a cover backer may be a stretch, but teaching an ILB to play any backer position in a 4-3 shouldn't be that damn difficult to do......and with the popularity of the 3-4, the Bengals better learn to coach these kids to do exactly that in the future, or transition themselves to the 3-4......just my $.02.....

All true. We will need to get that big NT to switch to a 3-4 though. Peko and Sims are not true 3-4 NT's IMO.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-16-2015, 01:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true. We will need to get that big NT to switch to a 3-4 though. Peko and Sims are not true 3-4 NT's IMO.

No, you're exactly right there......it won't happen overnight.....but it's something to consider......the 4-3 is kinda outdated in today's pass happy league.  You can definitely make it work, but you HAVE to get consistent pressure out of your front four.

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-16-2015, 01:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: No, you're exactly right there......it won't happen overnight.....but it's something to consider......the 4-3 is kinda outdated in today's pass happy league.  You can definitely make it work, but you HAVE to get consistent pressure out of your front four.

While Seattle uses a base 4-3, it also incorporates many elements of the 3-4. The Seahawks use a smaller defensive end who is primarily a pass rusher, a position the Seahawks call LEO.



Maybe we should take a page from the best.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-17-2015, 11:47 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: While Seattle uses a base 4-3, it also incorporates many elements of the 3-4. The Seahawks use a smaller defensive end who is primarily a pass rusher, a position the Seahawks call LEO.



Maybe we should take a page from the best.

That's interesting......I agree 100%!

[djs7685]

(06-17-2015, 11:47 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: While Seattle uses a base 4-3, it also incorporates many elements of the 3-4. The Seahawks use a smaller defensive end who is primarily a pass rusher, a position the Seahawks call LEO.



Maybe we should take a page from the best.

I wouldn't be upset if they did try it out, but only if they had the proper personnel to pull it off.

It's like a lot of Bengals' fans on here always clamor to use the TEs like the old Patriots without realizing that we don't have the QB, HC, OC, or TEs capable of running it at such a high level. There's a reason that there have only been a couple of teams to successfully pull it off, which leads me to believe there are specific reasons that teams aren't jumping to try and turn their defense into Seattles. There's a LOT more to it than just "hey, we want to be like the best defense in the league!" and then magically turning into them.

[XenoMorph]

(06-16-2015, 12:32 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I'm honestly not sure myself, but I never heard anywhere that Dawson was the best 4-3 OLB in the draft.

Other than Bengals' fans saying it after he was drafted, I don't think there is any sort of consensus to back up that claim.

its what the draftniks were saying during the draft...

Kendricks had better measurements at the combine but no one had better tape than dawson.

[XenoMorph]

(06-16-2015, 01:23 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Also....TCU runs a 4-2-5, not a 4-3.....

well alot of the time we are in the nickle or dime which would leave only 2 LBers on the field.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-16-2015, 01:18 PM)Wyche Wrote: Kinda what I am thinking.....and Bud Dupree was considered a hybrid type of player that could line up at OLB or DE.....I made a general statement in regards to the seeming lack of urgency on their part to address the Burfict question, as well as the Michael Johnson question.  I discussed this at that other place too.  At this point, it seems we gotta hope MJ can return to his old form, and that Burfict will be set......or that an unknown variable can step in his place and shine.

Hopefully, that's what happens, and if it does, we are DEFINITELY set at OT.....


.....and there's this:

"Dawson (6-foot-0, 235 pounds) had a poor combine and has some character issues."  Kendricks would have probably been my pick, but not terribly upset with the Dawson pick, it's more about the two OT....

(06-17-2015, 12:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: well alot of the time we are in the nickle or dime which would leave only 2 LBers on the field.

[djs7685]

(06-17-2015, 12:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: its what the draftniks were saying during the draft...

Kendricks had better measurements at the combine but no one had better tape than dawson.

Yeah I don't have an issue with the Dawson pick at all, I just thought it was funny because I never heard him referred to as the best 4-3 OLB in the draft until AFTER we picked him. I could be wrong if you guys are saying there were people saying it, I didn't see it myself though.

It made me chuckle like the whole TE situation. Everyone on the mothership couldn't shut up about Heueueerman or Koyack taking over the universe, but then all of a sudden Kroft was "the best TE in the entire draft" or "just as good as Heueuerman". I didn't hear Kroft's name ONCE pre-draft on the old boards. I will say that I did hear a little about Dawson here and there, but he didn't get nearly as much praise pre-draft from Bengals' fans.

It's just funny to me how that seems to happen every year.

[GreenCornBengal]

(06-17-2015, 11:55 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I wouldn't be upset if they did try it out, but only if they had the proper personnel to pull it off.

It's like a lot of Bengals' fans on here always clamor to use the TEs like the old Patriots without realizing that we don't have the QB, HC, OC, or TEs capable of running it at such a high level. There's a reason that there have only been a couple of teams to successfully pull it off, which leads me to believe there are specific reasons that teams aren't jumping to try and turn their defense into Seattles. There's a LOT more to it than just "hey, we want to be like the best defense in the league!" and then magically turning into them.

Right, but my main reason in posting that was to show that you don't need to transition completely to a 3-4 in order to get pressure on the QB. IF we were to make any changes on defense schematically, I would rather that we pushed for this Seattle style instead of a 3-4.

I completely agree with you though, we don't have the coaches to utilize the talents we often have. For instance, Eifert is a great receiver as we know, but now that Gresham is gone they will probably try to turn Eifert into a blocker and we will rarely see him catch downfield passes, its just how our coaches are. (I hope I'm wrong on that one but can you not envision Eifert just turning into Gresham? short routes and blocking ugh).

Personally I think we have the personell to pull off a Seattle style defense (if we would ever draft some pass rushers), but Marvin Lewis has egg shelled himself into the way he plays D.

[yellowxdiscipline]

I don't want to see a situation where he's rushed back. If we can save him until Week 10 or so then im ok with that.

[Bengal Dude]

(06-17-2015, 11:47 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: While Seattle uses a base 4-3, it also incorporates many elements of the 3-4. The Seahawks use a smaller defensive end who is primarily a pass rusher, a position the Seahawks call LEO.



Maybe we should take a page from the best.

I've loved Seattle's D since Carroll took over. You are right about the way they mix it up with the 3-4 and 4-3. They have said that they like their DL to be 3-4 players while they like 4-3 LBs. I'm curious to see how Richard does as their DC. He could be a hot commodity as he gains experience, the guy has only been a coach since 2012.