Domata Peko - Once and current great?

[fredtoast]

(06-12-2015, 08:43 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Why do people like Sims compared to Peko...  ?

I'll tell you why.  It ain't a stat.  He's got way better push.

You can run all the numbers you want.

I just don't know how you guys can't see that.  Use your eyeballs.

Sims has hit the free agent market three times in his career.  He has never even been paid $2 million a year.

And I am pretty sure that every NFL team used their eyeballs when evaluating him.

He just is not as good as a lot of people here claim.  

[djs7685]

(06-12-2015, 06:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Peko....50 tackles....28 solo....1 sack....3 stuffs
Sims....25 tackles....17 solo....0 sacks...2 stuffs

What were their snap counts? Let's not pretend that's not a factor.

Peko does get extra points for staying healthy.

(06-12-2015, 06:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Give an example of an assist that Peko did not deserve.

Just one will do.

Do you happen to have the film for me for every single assisted tackle that the NFL gave to Peko in his career? If you have the YouTube link for that, I'll gladly let you know if there are any I disagree with. Until then, I don't know how I would show you that. If I put a game on, will there be a tally on the screen that shows when they gave Peko an assist and when they didn't? I don't understand how you want me to give you this example when there isn't any tape out there that shows exactly when he was/wasn't credited with assists.

(06-12-2015, 06:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I want to see a list of all the DTs rankings from 2013.  I'll bet if you look at the entire list you will see a lot of DTs that are either underrated or overrated by PFF.

McCoy, Suh, Mebane, Harrison, Casey, Dareus, Starks, Hatcher, Knighton, Atkins, Poe, Jackson, Short, Klug, McDaniel, Lotulelei, Odrick, Sims, Ngata, Soliai, Mosley, Williams, Dorsey, Joseph, Taylor, Cofield, McDonald, McLendon, Williams, Hill, Fairley, Jenkins, Peters, Logan, Bunkley, Wootton, Unrein, Johnson, Babineaux, Patterson, Walker, Edwards, Marks, Franklin, Langford, Evans, Williams, Jenkins, Nevis, Floyd, Thomas, Paea, Brockers, Pickett, Mitchell, Vickerson, Vellano, Thompson, McGee, Guion, Cole, Deaderick, Cohen, Miller, Jerry, Peko, Spence, Hayden, Jones

Now, you have to remember that those are just rankings by overall +/- grade. Some guys weren't terrible in certain facets of the game but they got taken down by other things (Langford is 44 overall but is actually considered the 14th best against the run, his 10 total penalties brought his grade down significantly). You're not going to see any guys on top of the list that didn't have a good 2013, and you aren't going to find any guys on the bottom of that list that didn't suck in 2013 in one way or another. PFF isn't the end-all system of the world for ranking players, but they sure can point you in the right direction. You're never going to see guys at the bottom of any of their lists that had GOOD years.

For some reason, these guys don't agree with your absurd stance that having a decent amount of tackles automatically means you couldn't have had a rough year. Have fun being delusional and thinking Peko isn't bad because he had 30 tackles and the Bengals paid him a bunch of money this one time. That stuff obviously means he's awesome!!!

(06-16-2015, 02:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sims has hit the free agent market three times in his career.  He has never even been paid $2 million a year.

And I am pretty sure that every NFL team used their eyeballs when evaluating him.

He just is not as good as a lot of people here claim.  

Well if whoever gets paid more = who is more talented, I hope you remember that for the future. That's an interesting take that Sims can't be considered a decent player since he didn't get paid X amount in his career.

I don't see anyone here claiming that Sims is the most amazing athlete of all time, I think you just have a problem with the guy because of your sick obsession with one of the worst NT in football, Domata Peko.

[fredtoast]

(06-16-2015, 02:58 PM)djs7685 Wrote: McCoy, Suh, Mebane, Harrison, Casey, Dareus, Starks, Hatcher, Knighton, Atkins, Poe, Jackson, Short, Klug, McDaniel, Lotulelei, Odrick, Sims, Ngata, Soliai, Mosley, Williams, Dorsey, Joseph, Taylor, Cofield, McDonald, McLendon, Williams, Hill, Fairley, Jenkins, Peters, Logan, Bunkley, Wootton, Unrein, Johnson, Babineaux, Patterson, Walker, Edwards, Marks, Franklin, Langford, Evans, Williams, Jenkins, Nevis, Floyd, Thomas, Paea, Brockers, Pickett, Mitchell, Vickerson, Vellano, Thompson, McGee, Guion, Cole, Deaderick, Cohen, Miller, Jerry, Peko, Spence, Hayden, Jones

Now, you have to remember that those are just rankings by overall +/- grade. Some guys weren't terrible in certain facets of the game but they got taken down by other things (Langford is 44 overall but is actually considered the 14th best against the run, his 10 total penalties brought his grade down significantly). You're not going to see any guys on top of the list that didn't have a good 2013, and you aren't going to find any guys on the bottom of that list that didn't suck in 2013 in one way or another. PFF isn't the end-all system of the world for ranking players, but they sure can point you in the right direction. You're never going to see guys at the bottom of any of their lists that had GOOD years.

For some reason, these guys don't agree with your absurd stance that having a decent amount of tackles automatically means you couldn't have had a rough year. Have fun being delusional and thinking Peko isn't bad because he had 30 tackles and the Bengals paid him a bunch of money this one time. That stuff obviously means he's awesome!!!

Kawann Short was the 13th best defensive lineman in the entire NFL in 2013?  Karl Klug was 14th?  Those guys were not even starters.

[fredtoast]

(06-16-2015, 02:58 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Well if whoever gets paid more = who is more talented, I hope you remember that for the future. That's an interesting take that Sims can't be considered a decent player since he didn't get paid X amount in his career.

It is only interesting if you realize how the NFL works.  NFL scouts and GMs pay players what they feel they are worth based on their performance on the field.  Age and injuries can reduce a players worth, but Sims has been relatively young and healthy recently when he hit free agency.

It is pretty simple actually.  If Sims mwas as good as you and PFF are claiming then he would have gotten more pay on the free agent market.

[GreenCornBengal]

Peko doesn't need to rack up tackles, sacks or even make a huge push on every play.

His job is to open up holes for our LB's and to create room for our other players to do their job. Sometimes he throws guys to the side so a LB can hit the gap, other times he lets them push a little, creating another gap for LB's to fill.

I think with an untrained eye, Peko can easily look like a bad player. He isn't a world beating DT, but we have that already in Geno. Peko does what the coaches ask him, and the scheme asks for him to allow other players to make plays.

In conclusion, Peko is neither bad nor amazing, but he does his role and helps guys like Burfict get into position to make plays.

[djs7685]

(06-17-2015, 11:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Kawann Short was the 13th best defensive lineman in the entire NFL in 2013?  Karl Klug was 14th?  Those guys were not even starters.

(06-17-2015, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It is only interesting if you realize how the NFL works.  NFL scouts and GMs pay players what they feel they are worth based on their performance on the field.  Age and injuries can reduce a players worth, but Sims has been relatively young and healthy recently when he hit free agency.

It is pretty simple actually.  If Sims mwas as good as you and PFF are claiming then he would have gotten more pay on the free agent market.

It's almost like you didn't even read this part...

Now, you have to remember that those are just rankings by overall +/- grade. Some guys weren't terrible in certain facets of the game but they got taken down by other things (Langford is 44 overall but is actually considered the 14th best against the run, his 10 total penalties brought his grade down significantly). You're not going to see any guys on top of the list that didn't have a good 2013, and you aren't going to find any guys on the bottom of that list that didn't suck in 2013 in one way or another. PFF isn't the end-all system of the world for ranking players, but they sure can point you in the right direction. You're never going to see guys at the bottom of any of their lists that had GOOD years.


For some reason, these guys don't agree with your absurd stance that having a decent amount of tackles automatically means you couldn't have had a rough year. Have fun being delusional and thinking Peko isn't bad because he had 30 tackles and the Bengals paid him a bunch of money this one time. That stuff obviously means he's awesome!!!

You are never going to find a player at the very bottom of PFF's rankings that had a good year, and you're never going to find a player at the top of PFF's rankings that had a bad year. Like I said, their grades aren't gospel, but they point you in the right direction moreso than "hurr durr he got some tackles so obv is good!".

[fredtoast]

(06-17-2015, 11:41 AM)djs7685 Wrote: It's almost like you didn't even read this part...

Now, you have to remember that those are just rankings by overall +/- grade. Some guys weren't terrible in certain facets of the game but they got taken down by other things (Langford is 44 overall but is actually considered the 14th best against the run, his 10 total penalties brought his grade down significantly). You're not going to see any guys on top of the list that didn't have a good 2013, and you aren't going to find any guys on the bottom of that list that didn't suck in 2013 in one way or another. PFF isn't the end-all system of the world for ranking players, but they sure can point you in the right direction. You're never going to see guys at the bottom of any of their lists that had GOOD years.


For some reason, these guys don't agree with your absurd stance that having a decent amount of tackles automatically means you couldn't have had a rough year. Have fun being delusional and thinking Peko isn't bad because he had 30 tackles and the Bengals paid him a bunch of money this one time. That stuff obviously means he's awesome!!!

You are never going to find a player at the very bottom of PFF's rankings that had a good year, and you're never going to find a player at the top of PFF's rankings that had a bad year. Like I said, their grades aren't gospel, but they point you in the right direction moreso than "hurr durr he got some tackles so obv is good!".

I am not delusional to think that the ability of a player to shed blockers and make tackles is meaningless.

I am not delusional to believe that the opinions of NFL coaches and talent evaluators are meaningless.

I am not delusional to see that the PFF rankings are not very accurate.

You are the one that is delusional by ignoring ALL of the things I have just listed above and just blindly insisting that Peko is one of the worst DTs in the league just because PFF says so.

[djs7685]

(06-17-2015, 02:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not delusional to think that the ability of a player to shed blockers and make tackles is meaningless.

I am not delusional to believe that the opinions of NFL coaches and talent evaluators are meaningless.

I am not delusional to see that the PFF rankings are not very accurate.

You are the one that is delusional by ignoring ALL of the things I have just listed above and just blindly insisting that Peko is one of the worst DTs in the league just because PFF says so.

It's not just because PFF says so, it's because I have eyeballs and I know the role of a 4-3 NT.

He doesn't shed blockers well enough more often than not. He plays tons of snaps, obviously he's going to have more tackles than guys that play less than half of his snap count. Pretend snap count is meaningless.

You have no idea what the opinions of NFL coaches and talent evaluators are. The guys in Cincinnati hardly have a track record of making all of the best decisions. Peko doesn't get the money he's making now on the open market. You can disagree, but there's no way you can lie and say that it's a 100% fact that he would get that much money. Using what the Bengals decided to pay him as a fact of how great he is could be the most lawyer-esque stupid argument I've heard you try to make on here.

PFF rankings aren't to be taken as gospel, as I said. You will NEVER find a player that had a good year on the bottom of their rankings. You just won't. You would probably be the only person on earth to argue against that if you choose to do so. You will not find a guy on the bottom of their run defense grade that had a good year in run defense. You will not find a guy on the bottom of their pass rush grade that had a good year in pass rush. These guys don't just make up numbers out of thin air, they understand how the game works and they grade accordingly. Unlike your opinion, I actually value theirs.

I'll use your own argument here of how much money people make and I'll say that those guys get paid to evaluate NFL players and you don't, therefore their opinion > yours. Right?