McCarron hype gaining steam

[XenoMorph]

(06-23-2015, 05:48 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So if your QB throws for 7 TDs but the defense gives up 8 TDs then the QB is to blame because he did not throw 9 TDs correct?

If you would like a answer to that question... You must ask tony Romo

[spazz70]

(06-23-2015, 04:36 PM)McC Wrote: Except, it's not a theory.  It's a fact.  If the point guard keeps turning the ball over in the back court, it's gonna make it pretty hard for the other guys to score.  If the pitcher keeps giving up homers, it's gonna make it extra hard for the other guys to get a win.  If the goalie is a sieve...well, you get the point.  There's one guy who controls the outcome more than all the rest.

Doesn't excuse poor play from anyone else.  But the question was why does Andy take the most blame.  That's the answer.

It's simple logic, really.  All it takes is average intelligence to see it.  That, an open mind and and not just trying to argue.

The question was not is that fair.  That's a different question.

Why did the PG keep turning it over?..Did he keep dribbling it off his foot or was the best defensive player in the league guarding him?
Why is the pitcher giving up home runs?  Was it hot or cold out?  Is this a AA pitcher called up for spot duty or a 10 year, 20 game winner?
Why is the goalie giving up the goals?  Are any of his defensive payers hurt?  Were they power play goals caused by another players penalties?

To just throw these things out there makes no sense...every scenario has a different outcome.  Just like each of the Bengals playoff games

[*rfaulk34*]

(06-23-2015, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where were they drafted?
  
If AJ was that talented an injury wouldn't matter.  Todd Gurly had a worse injury than McCarron and he went #10 overall.  Our own first round draft pick is injured.  QBs are the most valuable players in the league.  If McCarron was any good teams would have drafted him higher.

I'm in alignment with this. 

[Se ky bengal]

(06-23-2015, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Where were they drafted?
  
If AJ was that talented an injury wouldn't matter.  Todd Gurly had a worse injury than McCarron and he went #10 overall.  Our own first round draft pick is injured.  QBs are the most valuable players in the league.  If McCarron was any good teams would have drafted him higher.





**Waits for djs to claim his last post was just a joke.**

 I'm forgetful. Where was a healthy Tom Brady drafted? 

[Bryan]

(06-23-2015, 07:46 PM)Se ky bengal Wrote:  I'm forgetful. Where was a healthy Tom Brady drafted? 

199

[Se ky bengal]

(06-23-2015, 07:48 PM)Bryan Wrote: 199

Ty

So that would be round 6?
Damn a lot of GM's kicking theirselves there. Although if not for the injury to Bledsoe, we may have never known. He got his chance and capitalized on it.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-23-2015, 03:33 PM)McC Wrote: Might have something to do with the fact that the QB is the guy with the ball in his hands on every offensive play and the other fact that if the QB stinks in a particular game, the  other 45 guys are gonna have a ***** of a time overcoming that.

Right. Dalton has caused Chad, Palmer, Atkins, Dunlap, MJ, Maualuga, the entire defense in general, Gio Bernard, etc to look like complete dog shit in every playoff game.

Gotcha.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-23-2015, 04:36 PM)McC Wrote: Except, it's not a theory.  It's a fact.  If the point guard keeps turning the ball over in the back court, it's gonna make it pretty hard for the other guys to score.  If the pitcher keeps giving up homers, it's gonna make it extra hard for the other guys to get a win.  If the goalie is a sieve...well, you get the point.  There's one guy who controls the outcome more than all the rest.

Doesn't excuse poor play from anyone else.  But the question was why does Andy take the most blame.  That's the answer.

It's simple logic, really.  All it takes is average intelligence to see it.  That, an open mind and and not just trying to argue.

The question was not is that fair.  That's a different question.

Please. Dalton had 1 turnover in Texans 2.0 and 1 turnover last year.

What were the excuses those times? The defense still played like crap and Gio couldn't get things going on the ground.

What about the Jets game when Palmer had 1 turnover and the defense got torched by studs like Sanchez and Shonn Greene?

I get saying that Dalton was the worst of the bunch, but to blame the entire team's shitty performance on the QB is silly.

[McC]

(06-23-2015, 08:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Please. Dalton had 1 turnover in Texans 2.0 and 1 turnover last year.

What were the excuses those times? The defense still played like crap and Gio couldn't get things going on the ground.

What about the Jets game when Palmer had 1 turnover and the defense got torched by studs like Sanchez and Shonn Greene?

I get saying that Dalton was the worst of the bunch, but to blame the entire team's shitty performance on the QB is silly.

To be fair, I don't really see anyone blaming Dalton for much more than his play.  That's a phenomenon in itself, this idea that he gets blamed for anybody else's play.  If he makes a mistake, a bad throw, a fumble, whatever, he gets blamed for it.  Nothing more, nothing less.

The QB has more chances to shine or suck or anything in between than anyone else.  Too much credit, too much blame.  Nature of the beast.  What you're railing against is reality and sometimes reality is unfair.

[McC]

(06-23-2015, 06:24 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Why did the PG keep turning it over?..Did he keep dribbling it off his foot or was the best defensive player in the league guarding him?
Why is the pitcher giving up home runs?  Was it hot or cold out?  Is this a AA pitcher called up for spot duty or a 10 year, 20 game winner?
Why is the goalie giving up the goals?  Are any of his defensive payers hurt?  Were they power play goals caused by another players penalties?

To just throw these things out there makes no sense...every scenario has a different outcome.  Just like each of the Bengals playoff games

Well, the PG ate spicy chili right before the game and he couldn't stop farting and...

You're kidding, right?

To simplify--the QB can make you or break you more than any other player on the field.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-23-2015, 10:04 PM)McC Wrote: To be fair, I don't really see anyone blaming Dalton for much more than his play.  That's a phenomenon in itself, this idea that he gets blamed for anybody else's play.  If he makes a mistake, a bad throw, a fumble, whatever, he gets blamed for it.  Nothing more, nothing less.

The QB has more chances to shine or suck or anything in between than anyone else.  Too much credit, too much blame.  Nature of the beast.  What you're railing against is reality and sometimes reality is unfair.

QB is the most important position on the team = reality.
Other than HC, the QB gets the most blame/credit = reality
Blaming consistently crappy performances of a defense and RB's on a QB = folks who hate the QB taking it a bit too far

There are dozens of examples of teams not falling apart just because their QB threw a couple picks. Heck, just last year the Seahawks overcame 4 int's from Russell Wilson. They did this by getting 157 yards from Lynch while the defense limited the best QB in football to a 55.8 rating. That game was worse than any of Dalton's 4 playoff debacles, yet the rest of the team showed up in a huge way. According to some, that's not possible. Again, there's dozens of recent examples like this.

I'm not saying that the team should have to overcome multiple turnovers, I'm just saying that it's a BS excuse. Teams don't always implode due to a few turnovers. If they do, they're mentally weak. 

As I pointed out in a previous post, it's not like Dalton has turned it over in bunches every time. He only had 1 turnover each in the 2nd Texans game and the Colts game. The themes remained the same in those games. The defense got destroyed by the run, the opposing QB's played well and our run game was either ineffective (see Benson/Scott in 2011 or Gio last year) or abandoned too soon (pretty much happened every playoff game other than the Jets).

In summary, I'm aware that (outside of the HC) the QB gets the most credit/blame. I actually think that's the way it should be. What I'm railing against is the idea that every player's individual performance suffered due to 1-3 turnovers by the QB. Andy Dalton doesn't cause Maualuga to get roasted by TE's. He doesn't cause the d-line pressure to suddenly vanish, and he doesn't cause the run game to become ineffective or get abandoned too soon. Complete team-wide failure in the bright lights has been a theme for 12 years running. That's why I feel it's more of a Marvin problem than an Andy problem. My thinking is that the entire team could play better in crunch time with a different HC. Even Dalton, possibly.

For me, this isn't even about defending Andy Dalton so much as keeping the focus where I feel it belongs. I've said all offseason that I'm fine with replacing Dalton. I'd even consider starting McCarron if he looks really good in preseason.

[fredtoast]

(06-23-2015, 10:04 PM)McC Wrote: The QB has more chances to shine or suck or anything in between than anyone else.  Too much credit, too much blame.  Nature of the beast.  What you're railing against is reality and sometimes reality is unfair.

You are confusing perception with reality.

The perception is that the QB is to blame.  That does not mean it is the reality.

I agree with the perception, but if you want to fix the real problem you have to look at reality instead of perception.

Dalton has played poorly but so has everyone else. And no matter how much you want to you can't blame Dalton for the entire teams problems.

[BengalChris]

(06-23-2015, 08:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Right. Dalton has caused Chad, Palmer, Atkins, Dunlap, MJ, Maualuga, the entire defense in general, Gio Bernard, etc to look like complete dog shit in every playoff game.

Gotcha.

(06-24-2015, 12:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You are confusing perception with reality.

The perception is that the QB is to blame. That does not mean it is the reality.

I agree with the perception, but if you want to fix the real problem you have to look at reality instead of perception.

Dalton has played poorly but so has everyone else. And no matter how much you want to you can't blame Dalton for the entire teams problems.

They all looked bad, including Dalton. That much bad is on the coaches.

[Tiger Teeth]

This place is starting to get ugly. God help us when the season starts.

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-24-2015, 01:07 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: This place is starting to get ugly.  God help us when the season starts.

It's becoming like the original Jungle Noise. Except there's actual cuss words allowed.

[Murdock2420]

(06-24-2015, 01:10 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: It's becoming like the original Jungle Noise. Except there's actual cuss words allowed.

I wonder what it would have looked like after that Cleveland game with the 2 QBR with no language filter?

[CornerBlitz]

(06-24-2015, 01:07 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: This place is starting to get ugly.  God help us when the season starts.

The only reason it gets "ugly" is because of the people that cannot get themselves to admit things that are clear to everyone outside of Cincinnati.

The QB is not very good.

The head coach is not very good.

If everyone would agree to the above 2 statements u'd get a lot less ugliness on these forums. The people that have been defending Dalton can't get themselves to admit the 1st one, and the homers that defend the Bengals at all costs can't get themselves to admit either. It's actually united some people that would never agree on anything...Dalton Defenders unite with Bengals homers.

The ones that are left are the folks that don't have a stake in the game and have been looking at the team and QB through an objective lens. 

[wolfkaosaun]

(06-24-2015, 01:41 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I wonder what it would have looked like after that Cleveland game with the 2 QBR with no language filter?

I stayed away from the boards for a week after that. I knew things were going to go off the rails.

[OSUfan]

(06-24-2015, 03:36 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: The only reason it gets "ugly" is because of the people that cannot get themselves to admit things that are clear to everyone outside of Cincinnati.

The QB is not very good.

The head coach is not very good.

If everyone would agree to the above 2 statements u'd get a lot less ugliness on these forums. The people that have been defending Dalton can't get themselves to admit the 1st one, and the homers that defend the Bengals at all costs can't get themselves to admit either. It's actually united some people that would never agree on anything...Dalton Defenders unite with Bengals homers.

The ones that are left are the folks that don't have a stake in the game and have been looking at the team and QB through an objective lens. 

Hold the press.

Did you or did you not chastise another poster for suggesting that the majority of blame for the teams postseason lack of success lies with the head coach?

Then here we go again..........if you do not completely agree with CB then you are not objective.

Andy has not shined in the postseason. However, to state he is not very good is not accurate either. He has been the QB for a team that has amassed 40 regular season wins in 4 seasons and please do not even start the ignorant winning in spite of. He has been the QB of a team that have won against the greats like Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Brady.

Does he need to show more consistency? Yes he absolutely does. Does he need to show an ability to shine in the postseason to remain the starting QB? Yes he does.

[orangeandblackblood]

(06-24-2015, 03:36 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: The only reason it gets "ugly" is because of the people that cannot get themselves to admit things that are clear to everyone outside of Cincinnati.

The QB is not very good.

The head coach is not very good.
If everyone would agree to the above 2 statements u'd get a lot less ugliness on these forums. The people that have been defending Dalton can't get themselves to admit the 1st one, and the homers that defend the Bengals at all costs can't get themselves to admit either. It's actually united some people that would never agree on anything...Dalton Defenders unite with Bengals homers.

The ones that are left are the folks that don't have a stake in the game and have been looking at the team and QB through an objective lens. 

This summarizes most of CB's posts.