McCarron hype gaining steam

[Hammerthis]

(07-03-2015, 12:03 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: It's hard for any offensive player to "step up" especially when your QB is playing like he belongs on  a high school team.

The main people that we should hold accountable are the good players that you expect quite a bit from such as Whitworth, AJ Green, Hill, Hall, Atkins, Burfict and obviously the QB because the ball is in his hands every play.

I'm not sure how you judge a G or C and determine if he "stepped up"..there are so many things that go into a game. For example how can you say the defense stinks when the offense can't move the ball and hasn't scored more than 10 points in any of their playoff games or the offense keeps turning the ball over. The offense, particularly the QB gives no chance for the defense to step up.  Besides all that we all acknowledge the team isn't very good in prime time or the playoffs so what is the point of even discussing that?  People want to argue about things most of us already agree about.

I just think it is hilarious that we can't blame the QB for his horrific play in the playoffs. I've already conceited to you that Marvin is a bum...why can't you clowns concede that Dalton isn't too far behind him. You want to talk about other players go right ahead and create a thread about them and we can analyze his performance in the playoffs. Last time I checked this thread is about the QB position.

But please stop with the excuses...it's tiring and old. Dalton lovers need to realize your prized QB isn't getting it done.

"Yea, take that Shake!"

[Hammerthis]

(07-02-2015, 07:57 PM)bearstronaut Wrote: Peyton had 0 playoff wins and 1 playoff passing touchdown going into his 6th year.  Should they have blown up Peyton and Dungy?  It took Matt Ryan 5 years to win a playoff game.  And they were both top 3 picks.  I feel like our second round QB should be afforded at least as much leeway as those 2.  It's hard to win NFL playoff games.   Neither of them were able to do it until everything came together, roster and coaching.  I still support Dalton and Lewis.

When Peyton had the right amount of talent around him, he performed well. The wins belong to the team. Andy performs poorly in big games with, or without efficient talent around him. IMO the game becomes too big for him.
Can we place a moratorium on comparing Andy to great QBs?

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-03-2015, 01:48 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: When Peyton had the right amount of talent around him, he performed well. The wins belong to the team. Andy performs poorly in big games with, or without efficient talent around him. IMO the game becomes too big for him.
Can we place a moratorium on comparing Andy to great QBs?  

While i'm happy to point out how poorly Dalton has played in playoff games, you can't not bring up how poorly the entire team played as well. That talent hasn't transferred to the playoffs for just about everyone on the team.

How much better does a QB look when WRs hold on to passes, when Olines block out the Sun, when running backs tear off huge chunks of yards, when defenses stop the other team's running game, when the defense creates multiple turnovers, when the special teams returns kicks for big yardage and touchdowns...

[Bengalholic]

Sorry to post non-Dalton material in a McCarron thread , but here's another article from Coley Harvey concerning AJ.

[Hammerthis]

(07-02-2015, 08:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It took Ken Anderson 11 years to win his first playoff game.

Drew Brees 6.

Rich Gannon 13.

Chris Chandler 11.

Randall Cunningham 8.

Len Dawson 7 years.

Boomer 5.

Joe Ferguson 8.

Dan Fouts 8.

Rich Gannon 13.

Bob Griese 5.

Matt Hassellbeck 7.

Billy Kilmer 10.

Steve McNair 5.

Craig Morton 6.

Dan Pastorini 8.

Jim Plunkett 10.

Tony Romo 6.

Phil Simms 5.

Bart Starr 6.

Fran Tarkenton 13.

Joe Theisman 9.

First and foremost, it took the Bengals 11 years to accumulate enough talent to win a playoff game. Not to take anything away from Ken Anderson, he was great QB, but with the talent he had around him in his 11th year, most QBs would've won a playoff game.

[Hammerthis]

(07-03-2015, 01:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: While i'm happy to point out how poorly Dalton has played in playoff games, you can't not bring up how poorly the entire team played as well. That talent hasn't transferred to the playoffs for just about everyone on the team.

How much better does a QB look when WRs hold on to passes, when Olines block out the Sun, when running backs tear off huge chunks of yards, when defenses stop the other team's running game, when the defense creates multiple turnovers, when the special teams returns kicks for big yardage and touchdowns...

I'm not referring to playoffs only. I've stated many times before, Andy is not the only problem on this team. I'm satisfied with all of our players as long as they have a viable replacement for the starting job. Ie, benched when they deserve it!

As many times as he has deserved it, do you really think Dalton will be benched? I don't.

[CornerBlitz]

(07-03-2015, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: We all agree that Dalton has not played well. . 

The problem is that everyone here agrees Dalton has played like a bum but the REASON for his inferior performance by many on here is excused because Marvin is the head coach.

Since you are also in agreement why don't you give us the reason why he has played like a bum? You like to dish out observations that everyone knows but give absolutely no rationale as to why. This whole debate is about whether we can blame Dalton for his inferior play or not. I am of the opinion that he isn't a very good QB to begin with and his playoff performances only exemplifies that. Others think no QB can succeed under Marvin and therefore Dalton gets a free pass and he is excused from any blame.

What's your take ole wise one?

[McC]

(07-03-2015, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Every single person here does.

Why can't you understand such a simple concept?

We all agree that Dalton has not played well.  We all just point out that the defense and running game has not worked either. 

Your attempts to blame Dalton for the poor defensive play shows that you really don't want to face the truth.  Dalton has nothing to do with the play of the defense. 

Maybe this is an oversimplification,  Maybe the defense feeds off the offense and vice versa.  Maybe the QB can lift the defense and maybe he can crush its will too. 

I don't state this as any kind of fact, just as a possibility.

Whit has spoken of the here we go again mentality.  What if that mentality is hinged on how the QB plays?  The whole team is waiting to see how the QB plays and reacts accordingly.  If he looks scared and comes out plying like crap, what is the residual affect on  the rest of the team?

This is not a valid excuse and it's not in any way acceptable.  But it might be human nature kicking in.  Maybe the reverse is true too.  Maybe if the QB comes out on fire, the rest of the team responds in kind.  We wouldn't know this, since Andy has not come out on fire in a playoff game.

It's obviously a group fail, but there might be certain individuals who get more of the blame.

[Hammerthis]

(07-03-2015, 09:48 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Hammer will go any length to bash Andy Dalton.

Label me if will, but where were you when I've compliment Andy in the past? He's had more than just a few good games and after each one, I complimented him. But after watching him year after year perform so inconsistently, unlike yourself , I'm unable to conclude he's a good QB.

[bearstronaut]

(07-03-2015, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Every single person here does.

Why can't you understand such a simple concept?

We all agree that Dalton has not played well.  We all just point out that the defense and running game has not worked either. 

Your attempts to blame Dalton for the poor defensive play shows that you really don't want to face the truth.  Dalton has nothing to do with the play of the defense. 

This.  I have never once heard a single person say that Dalton has played well enough in the playoffs.  The difference is that some people think his bad play is deserving of cutting him and the Bengals starting a QB with 0 snaps that got passed over 163 times.  While other's can take a step back and realize it's really hard to win NFL playoff games, and it's a whole team effort.  Carson (who every expert ranks as better than Dalton) has been on a few very talented rosters, and he hasn't gotten a playoff win under his belt in 12 years.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-03-2015, 01:54 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: While i'm happy to point out how poorly Dalton has played in playoff games, you can't not bring up how poorly the entire team played as well. That talent hasn't transferred to the playoffs for just about everyone on the team.

How much better does a QB look when WRs hold on to passes, when Olines block out the Sun, when running backs tear off huge chunks of yards, when defenses stop the other team's running game, when the defense creates multiple turnovers, when the special teams returns kicks for big yardage and touchdowns...

Faulk you're not allowed to mention we're averaging forcing like .4 turnovers per playoff game - that's irrelevant. You can't bring up the .5 sacks per game - that means nothing. Giving up like 160 rushing yards per game (many of which are 1st half yards) doesn't matter. Every TE we've played gashing the defense for huge chunks on every play hasn't affected anything.

Andy is responsible for our ineffective game plans. He's not good at half time adjustments either, we need a QB with a good plan B.

It's all Dalton's fault !

[Hammerthis]

(07-03-2015, 05:33 PM)bearstronaut Wrote: This.  I have never once heard a single person say that Dalton has played well enough in the playoffs.  The difference is that some people think his bad play is deserving of cutting him and the Bengals starting a QB with 0 snaps that got passed over 163 times.  While other's can take a step back and realize it's really hard to win NFL playoff games, and it's a whole team effort.  Carson (who every expert ranks as better than Dalton) has been on a few very talented rosters, and he hasn't gotten a playoff win under his belt in 12 years.  

I think most would agree, if not injured, Carson would have at least two playoff wins under his belt.
Can you agree with the idea that due to Andy's inconsistency, he deserves a demotion.?

[Hammerthis]

(07-03-2015, 07:38 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Faulk you're not allowed to mention we're averaging forcing like .4 turnovers per playoff game - that's irrelevant. You can't bring up the .5 sacks per game - that means nothing. Giving up like 160 rushing yards per game (many of which are 1st half yards) doesn't matter. Every TE we've played gashing the defense for huge chunks on every play hasn't affected anything.

Andy is responsible for our ineffective game plans. He's not good at half time adjustments either, we need a QB with a good plan B.

It's all Dalton's fault !

Not to beat up on Andy, but you do realize it's Andy whose causing the bulk of the turnovers right? Our defense has played well enough to win, but when the offense consistently goes 3 and-out, your defense will lag. Blame the coaches, that's pathetic!
What other QB's in the NFL suffer from poor coaching or is Andy the only one?

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-03-2015, 07:38 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Faulk you're not allowed to mention we're averaging forcing like .4 turnovers per playoff game - that's irrelevant. You can't bring up the .5 sacks per game - that means nothing. Giving up like 160 rushing yards per game (many of which are 1st half yards) doesn't matter. Every TE we've played gashing the defense for huge chunks on every play hasn't affected anything.

Andy is responsible for our ineffective game plans. He's not good at half time adjustments either, we need a QB with a good plan B.

It's all Dalton's fault !

4 and 5 are usually good numbers when you're talking about defense. 

Oh, wait. POINT4 and POINT5.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-03-2015, 12:03 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: It's hard for any offensive player to "step up" especially when your QB is playing like he belongs on  a high school team.

The main people that we should hold accountable are the good players that you expect quite a bit from such as Whitworth, AJ Green, Hill, Hall, Atkins, Burfict and obviously the QB because the ball is in his hands every play.

I'm not sure how you judge a G or C and determine if he "stepped up"..there are so many things that go into a game. For example how can you say the defense stinks when the offense can't move the ball and hasn't scored more than 10 points in any of their playoff games or the offense keeps turning the ball over. The offense, particularly the QB gives no chance for the defense to step up.  Besides all that we all acknowledge the team isn't very good in prime time or the playoffs so what is the point of even discussing that?  People want to argue about things most of us already agree about.

I just think it is hilarious that we can't blame the QB for his horrific play in the playoffs. I've already conceited to you that Marvin is a bum...why can't you clowns concede that Dalton isn't too far behind him. You want to talk about other players go right ahead and create a thread about them and we can analyze his performance in the playoffs. Last time I checked this thread is about the QB position.

But please stop with the excuses...it's tiring and old. Dalton lovers need to realize your prized QB isn't getting it done.

You could blame the performance of the WR/TE's on Dalton. That would be fair. What about the defense? Dalton causes all those issues as well? What about the first 2 playoff games that - last I checked - Dalton didn't participate in? What about the 8 seasons of prime-time choke jobs before the Bengals drafted Dalton? 

If you blame the entire team's failures on Andy Dalton, then why do you even want Marvin Lewis gone? How can you say with a straight face that you want Marvin Lewis gone when you think it's so clear that the QB causes team-wide failure? It doesn't seem like it would be fair to judge Marvin when he is so crippled by his QB.

I'd love to see you answer each of these questions, but I have a feeling the only response you have is something about you being objective and me loving the QB. You might single out the first playoff game and mention Palmer's injury, but you won't answer anything about the 8 years of prime-time failure that preceded Dalton, and you won't answer why you want Marvin gone when it's so clear that the QB causes all of the playoff/prime-time problems.

[Shake n Blake]

(07-03-2015, 08:04 PM)Hammerthis Wrote: What other QB's in the NFL suffer from poor coaching or is Andy the only one?

The only HC in the NFL with an 0-6 playoff record (or worse) is Marvin Lewis.

I'm pretty sure he has the worst prime-time record of any coach as well. So yeah. Totally ridiculous to blame coaching. 

[*rfaulk34*]

So...do we all agree that the 'McCarron hype gaining steam' really means nothing more than he's the primary backup going into the preseason?

[Shake n Blake]

(07-03-2015, 09:33 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So...do we all agree that the 'McCarron hype gaining steam' really means nothing more than he's the primary backup going into the preseason?

I think most people are realistic enough to know that McCarron has almost zero chance of starting this year.

Now if Dalton has a repeat of last year, then 2016 may be a different story.

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-03-2015, 09:38 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think most people are realistic enough to know that McCarron has almost zero chance of starting this year.

Now if Dalton has a repeat of last year, then 2016 may be a different story.

I hope they're realistic enough. Honestly, i'd like nothing better than for him to light it up in preseason. I know it will cause all sorts of debate but it won't matter in terms of the depth chart. It would be nice to have the peace of mind, knowing there's a capable backup if the starter goes down. If he ends up being better than Dalton, great. It just means the team i root for has a better chance of going deep in the playoffs. I couldn't care less about which side is right or wrong.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(07-03-2015, 08:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You could blame the performance of the WR/TE's on Dalton. That would be fair. What about the defense? Dalton causes all those issues as well? What about the first 2 playoff games that - last I checked - Dalton didn't participate in? What about the 8 seasons of prime-time choke jobs before the Bengals drafted Dalton? 

If you blame the entire team's failures on Andy Dalton, then why do you even want Marvin Lewis gone? How can you say with a straight face that you want Marvin Lewis gone when you think it's so clear that the QB causes team-wide failure? It doesn't seem like it would be fair to judge Marvin when he is so crippled by his QB.

I'd love to see you answer each of these questions, but I have a feeling the only response you have is something about you being objective and me loving the QB. You might single out the first playoff game and mention Palmer's injury, but you won't answer anything about the 8 years of prime-time failure that preceded Dalton, and you won't answer why you want Marvin gone when it's so clear that the QB causes all of the playoff/prime-time problems.

Because SHUT UP!!!!! *runs to my room and slams the door*