Margus Hunt on improving/working with Greene

[BengalChris]

(08-09-2016, 09:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He was not some guy who had never played football before.  He started 30 games in college and was an D-1 First Team  All-Conference player.  For his career he had 17 sacks, 28 tackles for loss, and 17 blocked kicks.

Hunt was much less of a "project" than Ziggy Ansah who was taken in the first round.  Ziggy only had 4.5 career sacks in college.

Hum? Moves like a project. Smells like a project. Progresses like a project. Produces like a project.

I do believe that makes him a "project".

And, thus far, a very slow moving and expensive project.

In college he could bull rush weaker opponents. In the NFL, well... OL men generally eat bull rushes for breakfast. His selection in the 2nd round was a front office mistake, and the coaches compounded it by taking three years to recognize what kind of help the guy needed. Even if Hunt has a half decent year this year, he'll still be a bust for a 2nd round pick.

[fredtoast]

(08-09-2016, 10:25 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Hum? Moves like a project. Smells like a project. Progresses like a project. Produces like a project.

I do believe that makes him a "project".

I do believe you are wrong.


You can't call every player that does not succeed a "project".  Devon Still was the Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year, but you can't claim he was a "project" just because he was a bust.

I don't consider players "projects" unless they have barely played in college or are switching positions.  There is not a single player in the draft that does not need to improve his game in some way when he comes to the NFL.  That does not mean every single player in the draft is a "project".

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-09-2016, 04:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I just saw this video where Lapham talks about Hunt's improvements and it's more than just "oh, now he's getting pressure" because he talks about Hunt has all the physical tools and just needs to finish, which he points out how Greene used too use tackles' size and movements against them.

Let's hope he can stay healthy and at least provide some pass rush and maybe cause a little disruption!

I know people are tired of fluff and want (regular season) results, but I really like that Marvin has called on Kevin Greene to help with the inexperienced Hunt.  It sounds like Hunt completely understands what Greene is wanting him to do, and even comments about the simplicity of the strategy.  Good.  We don't want his mind racing while he is trying to get pressure.  Single-focused, use your strengths, and get after the QB.

I was also pleased to hear that his assignments when rotating in at DT have been similarly simplified.  I know is sounds overly optimistic, but Hunt's ability to stay focused on a few key assignments and avoid trying to do too many things in any one play will increase the likelihood of his success.  

[Sled21]

I just love how everyone glosses over the fact that he played with an injured back all last season. My prediction is he gets out there this year and creates havoc.....

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-09-2016, 10:25 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Hum? Moves like a project. Smells like a project. Progresses like a project. Produces like a project.

I do believe that makes him a "project".

And, thus far, a very slow moving and expensive project.

In college he could bull rush weaker opponents. In the NFL, well... OL men generally eat bull rushes for breakfast. His selection in the 2nd round was a front office mistake, and the coaches compounded it by taking three years to recognize what kind of help the guy needed. Even if Hunt has a half decent year this year, he'll still be a bust for a 2nd round pick.

Go on youtube and watch some of his college tape.  He did not rely simply on a bullrush.  He has been injured at each point where he finally had an opportunity.  This is his year...if he can stay healthy.  I understand the desire for greater impact from a second rounder, but if he gets 7-9 sacks this year rotating at RDE and knocks down a few balls while playing DT (maybe tipping one for an INT), he will show the potential that they hoped for three years ago. 

Remember the Bengals don't hit on 100% of their picks.  No one does.  I won't kill the Bengals for taking a guy with his college tape, and the dreaded "upside".  Competition improves the breed, and MJ suddenly was a lot better at run defense,  put on about 20 lbs of muscle, and didn't want to come off the field.  

[WeezyBengal]

(08-09-2016, 05:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am always hopeful.  But it is amlost unheard of for a player to do nothing for 3 years and then suddenly take his game to another level.

Pretty much this. I have no expectations for Hunt to contribute this year.

[WeezyBengal]

(08-10-2016, 08:36 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I just love how everyone glosses over the fact that he played with an injured back all last season. My prediction is he gets out there this year and creates havoc.....

What would honestly leave you to believe this? He has been ineffective for 3 years now... 

[yellowxdiscipline]

My worst fear is that the light finally comes on for Hunt and he plays exceptionally well this year, and then bails on us in Free Agency.

Everyone knew when he was drafted that it was going to take Margus some time to get up to speed. I didn't think it would take this long though.

[Bengalbug]

(08-10-2016, 09:42 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: My worst fear is that the light finally comes on for Hunt and he plays exceptionally well this year, and then bails on us in Free Agency.

Everyone knew when he was drafted that it was going to take Margus some time to get up to speed. I didn't think it would take this long though.

I hope he comes out and gives us double digit sacks in route to a Lombardi.  In that case move on good sir... Or franchise tag.  

Regardless of where he is next year I hope he can put it all together and do something productive.  I'd take Justin smiths bengals days with great run defense and relentless an pressures but only 5 sack days at this point 

[XenoMorph]

(08-09-2016, 05:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am always hopeful.  But it is amlost unheard of for a player to do nothing for 3 years and then suddenly take his game to another level.

Nah 2 of those years I believe were injury riddled...  Back issues last year.     But when your 6'8"  that will happen.

But hope its enough to get more of a rotation going...  

[BFritz21]

Also, does anyone know if we put him in to block field goals when he was healthy? I know he had an NCAA record (or maybe just school record) for blocked kicks in college.

I always wondered why we didn't use him in that role. Dude's 6'8, so just put him in the line of the field goal and let him jump up.

I remember watching the playoff game on the game winner and hoping that he'd be in there to block it.

[grampahol]

I like that this team has the luxury of being able to develop players after several seasons of not showing much. Whether it pans out for Hunt is yet to be seen, but he's shown enough to coaches that they haven't been willing to give up on him. Plenty of players sit on the bench for years before emerging.. Some become great, some don't, but just because they don't become super stars their first few seasons doesn't make them a bust..
I'm rooting for him . If he comes out and gets 15 sacks (I'm not predicting that by the way) everyone will be begging the Bengals to take more chances on 2nd round picks. If he does nothing everyone will say he's Jerome Simpson 2.0.
By the way..if interested you can buy a Jerome Simpson rookie card on ebay for $1.92 plus shipping..the shipping is worth more than the card ..lol

[Sled21]

(08-10-2016, 09:37 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What would honestly leave you to believe this? He has been ineffective for 3 years now... 

Because now he has a little experience and is healthy. He hasn't been healthy since his rookie year. So yes, barring another injury I think it's his time to shine.

[jonesy84]

I haven't been on here forever, so long that the last time I logged on here was when these boards were still accessible on the bengals.com site, but once I found it here, it looked like my username and all my records from before were all gone, so I'm starting over I guess...  I loved watching all the discussions on here, but just got super busy at work (where I used to get on here regularly LOL).

But I must say this about Margus.  I was quite excited when we drafted him, but have found myself being disappointed over the past seasons with his inability to get on the field.  I saw a training camp practice at West Carrollton football field a couple years back and even from a distance, dude is noticeably HUGE.  Very easy to pick out in a crowd of D linemen.  I know he's had a number of quality guys ahead of him on the depth chart, and surely that has had some impact on his ability to get on the field, coupled with injuries of varying degrees, but I REALLY want to see him start making an impact.  Seems like he would be a beast of a rotational guy, he just needs to get in on that rotation!  Otherwise, when do we cut our losses and open up a roster spot for someone who can actually get on the field?

[OrlandoBengal]

(08-10-2016, 08:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Go on youtube and watch some of his college tape.  He did not rely simply on a bullrush.  He has been injured at each point where he finally had an opportunity.  This is his year...if he can stay healthy.  I understand the desire for greater impact from a second rounder, but if he gets 7-9 sacks this year rotating at RDE and knocks down a few balls while playing DT (maybe tipping one for an INT), he will show the potential that they hoped for three years ago. 

Remember the Bengals don't hit on 100% of their picks.  No one does.  I won't kill the Bengals for taking a guy with his college tape, and the dreaded "upside".  Competition improves the breed, and MJ suddenly was a lot better at run defense,  put on about 20 lbs of muscle, and didn't want to come off the field.  

The guy has 12 tackles in his entire career and you think 7-9 sacks as part of the rotation is possible?  Other than the fact it is the preseason and anything is hypothetically possible, what would lead you to believe this?

[3wt]

(08-10-2016, 08:36 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I just love how everyone glosses over the fact that he played with an injured back all last season. My prediction is he gets out there this year and creates havoc.....

I think that's been his biggest problem.  The guys has never been healthy.  I mean that's no guarantee that he's not going to be injured this year too.  Some people are either fragile or have bad luck.

Hopefully he'll stay healthy and realize his potential.

[BengalChris]

(08-10-2016, 08:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Go on youtube and watch some of his college tape.  He did not rely simply on a bullrush.  He has been injured at each point where he finally had an opportunity.  This is his year...if he can stay healthy.  I understand the desire for greater impact from a second rounder, but if he gets 7-9 sacks this year rotating at RDE and knocks down a few balls while playing DT (maybe tipping one for an INT), he will show the potential that they hoped for three years ago. 

Remember the Bengals don't hit on 100% of their picks.  No one does.  I won't kill the Bengals for taking a guy with his college tape, and the dreaded "upside".  Competition improves the breed, and MJ suddenly was a lot better at run defense,  put on about 20 lbs of muscle, and didn't want to come off the field.  

I don't believe he's been injured every year. A 2nd round pick doesn't need to make a great impact, but they do need to make an impact. Three years of near zero anything says a lot. He's never been IRed that I can remember, so the injuries weren't that bad.

In the NFL, when given his chance and gone up against 1st string OLs, he's done zippo.

I agree that there is potential there. But when you are drafting based on unrealized potential you are drafting a project. Teams spend top 1st round picks on potential, especially at QB.

I hope Hunt actually lives up to the potential he was drafted for. That's what this team needs. However, to have to wait till a players 4th year to get production from him is not the way to win championships. If all our draft picks took that long to show up we'd be almost as bad as the Browns.

To understand my draft bust comment realize that I also weight in that a higher producing player could have been drafted or even signed from elsewhere. Hunt has taken up a roster spot every year. Where could we have been if we'd have just signed Freeney a few years ago? It's not just what Hunt didn't do, but what another player could have done. That's what we lost in hanging on to him.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2016, 10:15 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Also, does anyone know if we put him in to block field goals when he was healthy?  I know he had an NCAA record (or maybe just school record) for blocked kicks in college.

I always wondered why we didn't use him in that role.  Dude's 6'8, so just put him in the line of the field goal and let him jump up.  

I remember watching the playoff game on the game winner and hoping that he'd be in there to block it.

The did put him in some, and Dunlap blocked one while he was in there, I believe.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2016, 01:35 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: The guy has 12 tackles in his entire career and you think 7-9 sacks as part of the rotation is possible?  Other than the fact it is the preseason and anything is hypothetically possible, what would lead you to believe this?

How many times was James Harrison released before he became an NFL Defensive MVP?  Stranger things have happened than a physical freak who finally gets healthy and has an opportunity to play a significant amount of snaps contributes.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-10-2016, 08:12 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't believe he's been injured every year. A 2nd round pick doesn't need to make a great impact, but they do need to make an impact. Three years of near zero anything says a lot. He's never been IRed that I can remember, so the injuries weren't that bad.

In the NFL, when given his chance and gone up against 1st string OLs, he's done zippo.

I agree that there is potential there. But when you are drafting based on unrealized potential you are drafting a project. Teams spend top 1st round picks on potential, especially at QB.

I hope Hunt actually lives up to the potential he was drafted for. That's what this team needs. However, to have to wait till a players 4th year to get production from him is not the way to win championships. If all our draft picks took that long to show up we'd be almost as bad as the Browns.

To understand my draft bust comment realize that I also weight in that a higher producing player could have been drafted or even signed from elsewhere. Hunt has taken up a roster spot every year. Where could we have been if we'd have just signed Freeney a few years ago? It's not just what Hunt didn't do, but what another player could have done. That's what we lost in hanging on to him.

He had very limited snaps before getting injured.  He was very raw, but was not offered many snaps when he was healthy.  This has happened before.  We saw a very average Robert Geathers play many more snaps than Carlos Dunlap for half of his rookie season.  

As far as signing someone else (as a FA) and getting more performance so we "lost" goes, you couldn't be more off-base.  A free agent that averaged between 7-9 sacks per year would likely cost around 8-10 million PER SEASON.  The way the Bengals have built a successful roster is not (over)paying FAs, but by drafting and developing their own players.  They have been very good at this.  Not all hit.  Not all go on to be Pro Bowlers.  But, before you can call Hunt a bust, he must be given significant snaps while he is healthy to see what he can do.