Nugent will cost us at least 1 game this year

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-13-2016, 04:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: -Last year against the Broncos, Nugent missed a 45 yarder in a game that they ended up losing by 3. I believe a win there would have given the Bengals a 1st round bye. If he made it, it'd be OT, not a win, but still...

-The Carolina game you mentioned in 2014.

-In 2013, the Bengals lost in OT against the Ravens. Nugent missed a 42 yarder in the 2nd quarter of that game, which would have presumably made the OT a nonfactor. If they won that game, the Bengals would have had a first round bye since they would tie NE's 12-4 record, and beat NE that year.


....so yeah, good for about a loss a year for the last three years, and probably cost the Bengals a first round bye twice.  The last three years, he has ranked 23rd, 27th, and 23rd in FG %.

Hard to argue with these facts.

Still, i ask the question...

Who out there is better?

[*Nately120*]

We should just change our name to the Cincinnati Nugemarvintates and get it over with.

[bengalsfan73]

I am sorry but Nugent is not very good. He will more than likely cost us a game maybe two this season. He does not have a strong leg at all. Plus his kickoffs are very weak and he rarely gets it into the endzone. I think he is only here because he played Ohio State and he is a fan favorite. I like him as a person, but he is definitely not a good kicker in my opinion. He cost the Bengals a game against the Broncos last year or at least a tie which would have helped them get a first round bye. When he comes in the game, I am always nervous whether it be a field goal attempt or even an extra point. However, when the game is on the line or even not on the line, when he is asked to make a field goal from over 45 yards it is always a challenge which should never be an issue for a kicker. I think he is one of the weakest parts of this team. I agree with the majority that was upset when the Bengals let Josh Brown go because of Marvin Lewis' loyalty to an average kicker in Nugent. We need a strong legged kicker because when it starts to get colder outside we need someone dependable and I am sorry but Nugent is not that dependable.

[bengalguy71]

Justin Tucker percentage of successful FGs since he came into the league in 2012: 87.8%

Mike Nugent since 2012: 82%

2015 Tucker: 82.5%

2015 Nugent: 82.1%

[kevin]

(08-13-2016, 02:49 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Besides the Panthers game, I really can't seem to think of a game where Nugent lost us a game or missed a clutch field goal.

I mean, Seahawks game he did great in. Yet no one gives him credit for making a field goal with literally no time on the clock and then kicking another to win the game.

You're not gonna get better than Nugent with the NFL market. You're really not.

Plus. It's preseason. Chill out.

Well said....Had the score of the game mattered, we kick the extra point to tie the game....Nobody wants a tie in preseason after 4 quarters in preseason. .......If you look up Nugent's year by year stats with Bengals, he is one of most accurate kickers in Bengals history....Everybody was rusty going into that game, it's preseason......The worst is preseason NBA basketball, I've been to those and are they ever sloppy. Turnover, turnover, turnover....This is why sports has preseason, to get the rust off and get ready for the season. Nobody cares about the score.......I'm sure there are fans who want the Bengals to find a kicker who never misses. That is impossible. Even Hall Of Fame kickers had their misses. ....The preseason missed field goal doesn't mean a thing, get over it.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-14-2016, 03:56 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Justin Tucker percentage of successful FGs since he came into the league in 2012:  87.8%

Mike Nugent since 2012: 82%

2015 Tucker:  82.5%

2015 Nugent:  82.1%

Tucker has attempted 30 FG of 50+ yards in his 4 year career.

Nugent has attempted 25 FG of 50+ yards in his 11 year career.

Tucker has more long misses, because he has the leg to actually try and make them so they attempt them a lot more. Everyone knows Nugent needs optimal conditions to try it so they rarely do. That skews your numbers quite a bit.

Breakdown of the two by career FG% at different ranges...

Tucker from 20-29 yds: 100%
Nugent from 20-29 yds: 98.5%

Tucker from 30-39 yds: 97.6%
Nugent from 20-29 yds: 82.5%

Tucker from 40-49 yds: 87.2%
Nugent from 40-49 yds: 75%

Tucker from 50+ yds: 60%
Nugent from 50+ yds: 44%


Justin Tucker's career worst year (82.5% because he went 4/10 in 50+) would be the 4th best year of Nugent's career.

GTFO with that weak comparison, Bengalguy. Lol

[bengalguy71]

(08-14-2016, 06:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Tucker has attempted 30 FG of 50+ yards in his 4 year career.

Nugent has attempted 25 FG of 50+ yards in his 11 year career.

Tucker has more long misses, because he has the leg to actually try and make them so they attempt them a lot more. Everyone knows Nugent needs optimal conditions to try it so they rarely do. That skews your numbers quite a bit.

Breakdown of the two by career FG% at different ranges...

Tucker from 20-29 yds: 100%
Nugent from 20-29 yds: 98.5%

Tucker from 30-39 yds: 97.6%
Nugent from 20-29 yds: 82.5%

Tucker from 40-49 yds: 87.2%
Nugent from 40-49 yds: 75%

Tucker from 50+ yds: 60%
Nugent from 50+ yds: 44%


Justin Tucker's career worst year (82.5% because he went 4/10 in 50+) would be the 4th best year of Nugent's career.

GTFO with that weak comparison, Bengalguy. Lol

Did you actually think I was trying to say Nugent was close to the best kicker in the NFL?  lol

I took Tucker (best in the NFL) to offer comparison to where Nugent lined up.

I'm unaware of any unemployed kickers with a better resume than Nugent.

If there are any you know of, you might want to let Brown know about them.

Bottom line, no matter how much we piss and moan, we know how Brown and Lewis see it .... Nugent will stay another year, barring injury.

[kevin]

Bengals History of Field Goal Kickers ( with 100 attempts or more )

!. Shayne Graham, 177 of 204 for 86.8 %

2. Mike Nugent, 134 of 163 for 82.2 %

3. Doug Pelfrey, 153 of 198 for 77.3%

4. Jim Breech, 225 of 313 for 71.9 %

5. Horst Muhlmann, 120 of 186 for 64.5 %

6. Chris Bahr, 62 of 107 for 57.9 %


OK, How about from inside 30 yards.

1. Mike Nugent because he has never missed inside the 30 and is 40 out of 40 for 100 %

40 to the 30

1. Shayne Graham made 65 out of 72 which looks like the best %

50 to the 40

1. Shayne Graham made 45 of 54 which looks like best %

past the 50

1. Mike Nugent has made 8 of 16 which looks like the best average.


So the stats show Mike Nugent as the 2nd best field goal kickers in Bengals history. ....and the best inside the 30......and the best past the 50.

So don't sweat a preseason missed field goal. It would be silly to cut one of the best kickers in Bengals history over that.

[*jason*]

(08-14-2016, 07:17 PM)kevin Wrote: Bengals History of Field Goal Kickers ( with 100 attempts or more )

!. Shayne Graham, 177 of 204 for 86.8 %

2. Mike Nugent, 134 of 163 for 82.2 %

3. Doug Pelfrey, 153 of 198 for 77.3%

4. Jim Breech, 225 of 313 for 71.9 %

5. Horst Muhlmann, 120 of 186 for 64.5 %

6. Chris Bahr, 62 of 107 for 57.9 %


OK, How about from inside 30 yards.

1. Mike Nugent because he has never missed inside the 30 and is 40 out of 40 for 100 %

40 to the 30

1. Shayne Graham made 65 out of 72 which looks like the best %

50 to the 40

1. Shayne Graham made 45 of 54 which looks like best %

past the 50

1. Mike Nugent has made 8 of 16 which looks like the best average.


So the stats show Mike Nugent as the 2nd best field goal kickers in Bengals history. ....and the best inside the 30......and the best past the 50.

So don't sweat a preseason missed field goal. It would be silly to cut one of the best kickers in Bengals history over that.

Wow. In my memories, Jim Breech seemed better than that. I guess that's the difference in eras.

[kevin]

(08-14-2016, 07:39 PM)jason Wrote: Wow. In my memories, Jim Breech seemed better than that. I guess that's the difference in eras.

My memories of The Horst seemed far greater.....Breech is the kicker with the most years, most attempts, most points and those Super Bowl teams.  Without the Field Goal to beat Washington in 1988 at end of season, we really fall in the standings.  What a huge pressure kick to help move team to a trip to Super Bowl....I think he made his share of clutch kicks in big games, that Breech. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-14-2016, 01:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hard to argue with these facts.

Still, i ask the question...

Who out there is better?

Not a great group of established guys, but there's always a shitton of kickers out there who haven't had a chance yet. Try a couple out, you might find someone nice. Kicker is a position where undrafted guys can easily come in and be quite good.

(08-14-2016, 06:43 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Did you actually think I was trying to say Nugent was close to the best kicker in the NFL?  lol

I took Tucker (best in the NFL) to offer comparison to where Nugent lined up.

I'm unaware of any unemployed kickers with a better resume than Nugent.

If there are any you know of, you might want to let Brown know about them.

Bottom line, no matter how much we piss and moan, we know how Brown and Lewis see it .... Nugent will stay another year, barring injury.

Yeah, it seemed like you were trying to make a Nugent = Tucker thing there, lol. Glad that wasn't the case.

(08-14-2016, 07:17 PM)kevin Wrote: So the stats show Mike Nugent as the 2nd best field goal kickers in Bengals history.  ....and the best inside the 30......and the best past the 50.

So don't sweat a preseason missed field goal.  It would be silly to cut one of the best kickers in Bengals history over that.

Nugent FG% standing as the Bengal....

2015: 23rd
2014: 27th
2013: 23rd
2012: 20th
2011: 8th
2010: 21st

Yes, it would be SILLY to cut that absolute greatness. Put that man in the Bengals Hall of Fame!  

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2016, 03:27 PM)bengalsfan73 Wrote: However, when the game is on the line or even not on the line, when he is asked to make a field goal from over 45 yards it is always a challenge which should never be an issue for a kicker.

This is just ridiculous.

Last year Nugent was above the league average from both 40-50 yards and 50+.


You honestly think that no other kickers ever miss FGs over 45 yards?

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2016, 11:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nugent FG% standing as the Bengal....

2015: 23rd
2014: 27th
2013: 23rd
2012: 20th
2011: 8th
2010: 21st

Yes, it would be SILLY to cut that absolute greatness. Put that man in the Bengals Hall of Fame!  

So basically Nugent is almost never in the bottom ten in FG% yet you think that we can just plug in anyone and he would be better.

If there are so many unemployed kickers better than Nugent then why haven't all of those teams with kickers worse than Nugent signed them?

Since 2010 there are 35 kicker with at least 80 FG attempts and Nugent ranks 23 among them.  Not great, but far from the bottom of the barrel that many of you claim he is. 

I have no problem with the Bengals bringing in other kickers to compete for the job.  I would also like to have a top ten kicker.  But to claim we should just cut a guy when nhe is consistently better than lots of other kickers in the league is just silly.

[*jason*]

(08-14-2016, 11:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is just ridiculous.

Last year Nugent was above the league average from both 40-50 yards and 50+.


You honestly think that no other kickers ever miss FGs over 45 yards?

Nugent always makes me nervous,... But for every game that he's "lost", I can think of another that he played a large role in them winning. That kick against Seattle was amazing. The ST unit as a whole was great on that play. I don't think a kicker is really ever the reason that a team loses a game. He's just the straw that broke the camel's back. If the outcome of a game is coming down to a kick, the team didn't play well enough to leave a decent margin for error.... A turnover in the red zone in the first quarter of a scoreless game can cost a team as much as a missed FG in the 4th quarter.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-13-2016, 11:06 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Simple question. How many here pick Nugent as their kicker on their fantasy team? I never have.

I have.

PAT city.

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2016, 04:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: -Last year against the Broncos, Nugent missed a 45 yarder in a game that they ended up losing by 3. I believe a win there would have given the Bengals a 1st round bye. If he made it, it'd be OT, not a win, but still...

-The Carolina game you mentioned in 2014.

-In 2013, the Bengals lost in OT against the Ravens. Nugent missed a 42 yarder in the 2nd quarter of that game, which would have presumably made the OT a nonfactor. If they won that game, the Bengals would have had a first round bye since they would tie NE's 12-4 record, and beat NE that year.


....so yeah, good for about a loss a year for the last three years, and probably cost the Bengals a first round bye twice.  The last three years, he has ranked 23rd, 27th, and 23rd in FG %.

According to your logic......

Last year Nugent beat the Steelers by kicking 3 FGs in a 6 point win.

In 2014 he beat the Ravens on opening day by kicking 5 fgs in a 7 pint win and then beat them again six weeks later by kicking 2 FGs in a 3 point win.

[Junglejuice]

While I am not a Nugent fan..... he is not responsible for as many losses as Jeremy Hill or AJ Green or any other player the last 2 years.........

[*Nately120*]

On the one hand it isn't likely we will be able to replace Nugent with a kicker who is better and available.

BUT on the other hand we HAD the chance to replace Nugent with a kicker who IS better and who WAS available and we did not. This is a moot point at it's finest!

[jonesy84]

All I can say is that NO MATTER WHO would ever be kicking any kick (PAT or FG) for the Bengals, I would be just as nervous as I am when Nuge is out there. Give me any other kicker from any team, I'd be literally just as nervous. As many people have said, the best kickers still miss too. And if our offense and defense played better in some of the games that Nuge "lost", then he wouldn't have been in a position to "lose" those games for us. End of the day, I don't see him being an amazing kicker, but definitely not in favor of ousting him this year as there are no better options right now.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-14-2016, 11:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not a great group of established guys, but there's always a shitton of kickers out there who haven't had a chance yet. Try a couple out, you might find someone nice. Kicker is a position where undrafted guys can easily come in and be quite good.

I guess Hocker isn't good enough to do it who is already on the team.

Still wondering who the coaches would replace Nuge with even if it is a better kicker.