Our O-Line Sucks

[Brownshoe]

(08-17-2016, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then your claim that an O-line is only as strong as its weakest link is completely false.

Bengals have a very good pass blocking O-line.

Bengals have a very good pass blocking O-line unless Dalton isn't the QB. Then they give up a ton of sacks and pressures.

 I wonder if that has anything to do with Dalton having pretty much the fastest release time in the NFL 

[fredtoast]

(08-18-2016, 12:10 AM)Brownshoe Wrote:  I wonder if that has anything to do with Dalton having pretty much the fastest release time in the NFL 

No.  The difference in release time is only hundredths of seconds.  If Dalton was getting hit a few hundredths of a second after he threw the ball every time then it would make a difference, but that is not happening at all.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-18-2016, 12:10 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Bengals have a very good pass blocking O-line unless Dalton isn't the QB. Then they give up a ton of sacks and pressures.

 I wonder if that has anything to do with Dalton having pretty much the fastest release time in the NFL 

Absolutely false.

McCarron has arguably the shittiest pocket awareness of any QB that started a game last year.

He walked into 5 sacks and held on too long for 3/4 of them.

[Brownshoe]

(08-18-2016, 12:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  The difference in release time is only hundredths of seconds.  If Dalton was getting hit a few hundredths of a second after he threw the ball every time then it would make a difference, but that is not happening at all.

Then why did McCarron get as many sacks as Dalton in a LOT fewer games?

[Brownshoe]

(08-18-2016, 01:34 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Absolutely false.

McCarron has arguably the shittiest pocket awareness of any QB that started a game last year.

He walked into 5 sacks and held on too long for 3/4 of them.

Is McCarron that bad, or is Dalton that good? I'm leaning towards Dalton being that good. McCarron does have bad pocket awareness, but that doesn't explain why the OL was giving up so many sacks. If McCarron would have been the starter all year he would have probably led the league in sacks.

[Jpoore]

(08-17-2016, 10:33 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Hopefully we draft someone like Pat Eifein out of OSU or Ethen Pocic out of LSU to shore-up our center position so we have a dominant line in 2017.
You do realize that pat eiflien isnt even a center he is a guard that can play center so no i would rather have bodine as our center who literally just turned 24 who has made improvements every year and has been in the league since 2014 getting all these nfl reps rather than a guy like ryan kelly who is a rookie and less than a year younger than bodine
Then why did McCarron get as many sacks as Dalton in a LOT fewer games?

Read the reply above your comment

[Thundercloud]

Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks just did a show where they rated the Bengals as having the best o-line in the division. I know a bunch of people will say they don't know anything, but they are both former NFL scouts.

[wolfkaosaun]

(08-17-2016, 05:31 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: It seems both the new tackles were drafted with a zone blocking scheme in mind...more athletic, and less road-graders.  Makes me wonder if they really thought Hue would leave?

Well early in 2014 you saw Hue trying to implement a zone blocking scheme. But that wasn't working to everyone's strengths obviously. Even Whitworth had some struggles early on.

Hue seemed to have liked athletic OTs. Both Fisher and Ogubehi are athletic and can definitely move quickly.

[fredtoast]

(08-18-2016, 01:45 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Is McCarron that bad, or is Dalton that good? I'm leaning towards Dalton being that good.

I am leaning toward McCarron being that bad.

[fredtoast]

(08-18-2016, 03:08 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Well early in 2014 you saw Hue trying to implement a zone blocking scheme. But that wasn't working to everyone's strengths obviously. Even Whitworth had some struggles early on.

Bengals used a zone blocking scheme long before 2014.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-17-2016, 02:39 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: To be less crass.


Your assessment of our line hinges on a lot of assumptions.

And also, i'll ask again, would you trust our line in a run heavy scheme?

Well, you kind of have to assume some things.

It depends on injuries, development and as Wolf here says, blocking schemes.

Yes, i would trst our OL in a run heavy scheme.

(08-17-2016, 03:14 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I mean, we were a run heavy scheme in 2014 and had one of the best rushing attacks whenever Jeremy Hill started. In fact, he had the most rushing yards of any RB since November and December.

So. Yeah. I do.

It's also playing to their strengths. We can't act like O-lineman are asked to just block. There's different types and such. Such as zone blocking, and that's not everyone's strength.

There's a lot more key elements to blocking schemes.

Wolf said it better than i could.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-17-2016, 09:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The offensive line is only as good as its weakest link. When we have bad center play that makes our OL a lot worse than what some people try to act like.

True.

(08-17-2016, 10:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually this logic would imply that Bodine is one of the best pass blocking centers in the league.

False.

(08-17-2016, 10:28 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Most of the pressures and sacks come from up the middle. Bodine is probably one of the worst starting centers in the league. He has been showing improvement over the last couple of years, but he's still a ways away from being one of the best pass blockers in the league.

True.

(08-17-2016, 10:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then your claim that an O-line is only as strong as its weakest link is completely false.

Bengals have a very good pass blocking O-line.

Your claim is completely false saying that Bodine is one of the best pass blocking Centers in the league.

He is the weak link on a very good pass blocking O-line.

[fredtoast]

(08-18-2016, 01:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True.


False.


True.


Your claim is completely false saying that Bodine is one of the best pass blocking Centers in the league.

He is the weak link on a very good pass blocking O-line.

I never said that Bodine was one of the best pass blocking centers in the league.  

I was just pointing out a flaw in the logic used by both you and Brownshoe.

 If Bodine was terrible and the line was only as good as its weakest link then our entire line would be just as bad as Bodine.

Get it now?

[wolfkaosaun]

(08-18-2016, 09:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals used a zone blocking scheme long before 2014.

They've used a mix of man and zone blocking. In early 2014 they relied more heavily on zone blocking.

[Brownshoe]

(08-18-2016, 02:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never said that Bodine was one of the best pass blocking centers in the league.  

I was just pointing out a flaw in the logic used by both you and Brownshoe.

 If Bodine was terrible and the line was only as good as its weakest link then our entire line would be just as bad as Bodine.

Get it now?

Dalton covers up his mistakes by his quick release. That's why when McCarron was the QB he was sacked a crazy amount. The OL would be at the bottom of the league of McCarron was the starter all year. Some of it has to do with his poor pocket awareness, but most of it is because the QB isn't covering up Bodines mistakes.

[kevin]

(08-16-2016, 01:19 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Running game, hah.

What running game? Gio outrunning linemen who already penetrated the backfield

Can someone look me in the eye and say they trust Jake Fisher and Russel Bodine to give us enough of a run game to take pressure off Andy?

Get ready for a lot more quick passess. Better hope Andy gels with Lafell and his rookies sooner than later.

You are putting way too much into preseason game one.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-18-2016, 02:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never said that Bodine was one of the best pass blocking centers in the league.  

I was just pointing out a flaw in the logic used by both you and Brownshoe.

 If Bodine was terrible and the line was only as good as its weakest link then our entire line would be just as bad as Bodine.

Get it now?

Of course i get it.

You always have the failed logic of defending the weak links on this team instead of using the common precept
of understanding that you should try and improve on that weakness. Your failed logic is easy to see but hard for
a fellow fan to understand.

Striving for greatness always has alluded you Fred. That is all lots of fans ask for is to strive for such a thing.

Paul Alexander does not strive for greatness, same as you. You two enable weakness cause you never want to
admit that you are wrong in anyway and would rather lie yourselves to death than admit it.

[fortyyearfan]

(08-16-2016, 12:27 PM)Sabretooth Wrote: As the regular season unfolds we can properly judge this current version of OL.

Last season they at times struggled to run block and got blew up ALOT.I do believe that is one of the causes or Hill having an off year.And I think they know that and that's why they took the big dude,Wesserman I think is his name from arizonia.

Also our defensive front really really needed Andrew Billings or someone to help them with the pass rush as I remember last year they had a tough time getting to the qb.I remember one game against the stinkin stoolers that big ben had all day to sit back there and sling the rock.That has to stop because when atkins and dunlap are out for a blow no one gets any PRESSURE.   Hopefully Hardison or Deshaun Williams can step up.Pat sims is good at stopping the run,but we so need a top pass rusher besides Atkins.Someone this season has to step up. Qbs are too good if you do not pressure them up the middle.

[Joelist]

(08-18-2016, 06:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton covers up his mistakes by his quick release. That's why when McCarron was the QB he was sacked a crazy amount. The OL would be at the bottom of the league of McCarron was the starter all year. Some of it has to do with his poor pocket awareness, but most of it is because the QB isn't covering up Bodines mistakes.

I do agree that Mccarran's slower release (both inexperience and he naturally has a slower release than second fastest in the NFL Andy) caused the warts in the pass protection to show up big time. And yes Bodine was (as he so far has been dos whole career) a big liability. He may be strong but he seems to have a lot of problems shifting laterally and gets beat a lot on stunts. 

[fredtoast]

(08-18-2016, 06:45 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dalton covers up his mistakes by his quick release. That's why when McCarron was the QB he was sacked a crazy amount. The OL would be at the bottom of the league of McCarron was the starter all year. Some of it has to do with his poor pocket awareness, but most of it is because the QB isn't covering up Bodines mistakes.

This just is not true.

If it was all because of Dalton's quick release then even when he wasn't getting sacked he would be hurried or hit.  But Dalton was hurried and hit fewer times than almost every other QB in the league.