In hindsight, the Bengals FO did a poor job this off season

[BengalFanInNJ]

(10-05-2016, 05:52 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If they are clamping down on Green so much then why does he have more yards and catches now than at this point last season? Lafell and Boyd are not the problem with this offense, it's the run game and o-line play.

Yeah, if I'm an opposing defensive coordinator I'm putting two guys on AJ and make you beat me with a mediocre at best running game and WR's that don't scare many people.

[*bfine32*]

(10-05-2016, 05:52 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If they are clamping down on Green so much then why does he have more yards and catches now than at this point last season? Lafell and Boyd are not the problem with this offense, it's the run game and o-line play.

Exactly

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-04-2016, 02:21 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: After a quarter of the season, I think its fair to say. The difference in the talent and the coaching between this year and last year is very evident.

They let Reggie Nelson, Marvin Jones, Andre Smith, Sanu, Leon Hall, Emmanual Lamur, Wallace Gilberry, Vance Joseph, and Hugh Jackson walk.

I know each of those players/coaches have different circumstances around why they left, and some are justified, but how could we honestly think we were going to be better this year than last year?

Thats a CRAP TON of talent and roster depth. It kind of pisses me off looking back on it that the FO didnt make more of a push this off season to bring some of these guys back or replace them with quality replacements.

You are seeing the results from this off season. Poor offensive line, not as effective defensive line, poor secondary play, and a step back in the coaching and coordinating of this team.

Reggie, MLJ, Sanu all wanted to get paid more than they deserve and start. MLJ is also the only one that has played
very well on another team yet this year and we offered him nearly as much as the Lions did, he just wanted to be #1.

Reggie has gotten burnt a lot in Oakland on that terrible Defense. Sanu i have not heard much about.

Shawn was going to take a little bit and it looked like he finally got that fire last game once Burfict got back. Shawn
made some nice big hits in the Dolphins game. Sure he dropped an interception in the Broncos game and has been
beat a bit but not as bad as Reggie this year.

Lafell was going to have a little time getting on the same page with Dalton after not playing in Preseason and i still
think he is an upgrade over Sanu. Liking the Dansby pickup more and more.

Eh, not nearly as poor of a job as you say Weezy IMHO.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-05-2016, 05:52 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If they are clamping down on Green so much then why does he have more yards and catches now than at this point last season? Lafell and Boyd are not the problem with this offense, it's the run game and o-line play.

That's the biggest part....but AJ has gone total beast mode a couple of times this season...he seems to be making up for their shortcomings.

[bengaltruth]

Marvin Jones should have been retained at all cost, if we were serious about winning this year. Its looking like in hindsight our SuperBowl window was last year and its closed now, and we are kind of in rebuild mode this year, If Eifert is shelved for the year that would confirm my theory that they are on to next year. See if your really planning on winning this year, you get Eifert to surgery on that ankle Febuary 1 2016, not MAY 29th 2016.

[fredtoast]

(10-05-2016, 02:19 PM)Synric Wrote: You are still using the same flawed logic and didnt answer the question....as a Defense do you cover Brandon Lafell the same way you cover Marvin Jones? 

There is nothing wrong with my logic and I clearly answered your question.

(10-05-2016, 02:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As long as LaFell produces on the field other teams will have to work just a shard to stop him as they did Jones.

[Shake n Blake]

When LaFell was signed, all the talk was how he has hands of stone and he'd never match Jones' production. Now that he's matching Jones' production and isn't dropping many passes, people are struggling to come up with new narratives why he stinks.

I agree with the poster who said the problems lie with the o-line and run blocking. I'll add to that by saying we're lacking a serious red zone threat (hint: Eifert), something Marv Jones has never been outside of a fluke 4 TD game.

Either way, keeping Marv Jones wasn't an option. Had we retained him at his asking price, we would've lost 1 (probably 2) players that we brought back. So other areas would be far worse off, most likely the secondary, which many are already (unfairly) criticizing. Imagine it without Pacman.

I still think the Bengals handled the offseason well - outside of letting Reggie go - and the pass offense is fine when Andy has time. Eifert will definitely help.

[fredtoast]

(10-05-2016, 02:38 PM)Wyche Wrote:  Jones is a viable deep threat, Lafell doesn't appear to be.

Which receiver looks like more of a deep threat

"A"....13.9 yards per catch, 18.7 percent of receptions go for 20+ yards
"B"....12.9 yards per catch, 17.9 percent of receptions go for 20+ yards

(10-05-2016, 02:38 PM)Wyche Wrote:   They are stacking the box and doubling AJ, and these guys still aren't getting open. 

AJ drew double coverage last year and LaFell has more receptions through 4 games (13) than Jones did last year (10)

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-05-2016, 09:24 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. 2yr/$8.5m? They instead gave Shawn Williams 5yr/$20m to not be able to cover people or tackle. You can't spin that as a positive move.

- - - - -

2. There's a limit on compensatory picks, there can only be 32 total picks given out in a year. There were a LOT of big contracts given out this offseason. The Bengals probably aren't getting a 3rd round comp pick in 2017. They're based largely on contracts given, and Jones got the biggest of the Bengals FAs, but is only 10th on that list in $/yr avg. They're not going to give 10 3rd round picks.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2016/5/5/11595824/denver-broncos-should-get-four-compensatory-picks-in-2017
This projects the Bengals getting a 4th for Jones and Sanu, a 5th for Nelson, and a 6th for Andre.

Nothing they could do about Marvin Jones, but I would have gladly given away the 5th round pick to have kept Nelson. Or given it away to sign someone like Travis Benjamin at WR. Or given up Andre's 6th rounder to sign Anquan Boldin so the Bengals would have some surer hands to throw to on third down.

Refusing to improve your team in FA for possible compensation picks two years later is an awful move. All the latest SB winners were players in FA. Going for it all is better than muddling around with one foot in, one foot out. That's how you turn into the Reds.

- - - - -

3. I really don't think the Bengals depth is as good as you think it is anymore. Boling went down and Fisher came in as the backup and was awful. There's no meaningful WRs after Green. Without Eifert there's no redzone threat from the TE spot. If Atkins or Dunlap go down, the DL is in trouble. The Bengals are one Adam Jones injury away from Chris Lewis-Harris being a starter.

The depth just isn't there anymore.

TH=hat's a lot of research in one post, Rep!  

I had not seen that projection about compensatory picks, but I am not sure of the formula and how much of it takes pure salary in to account.  Remember, though, that if a team signs their own FA, it might be included in that top 10 free agent signings, but would not contribute to the compensatory equation.  

The Bengals also lost Gilberry and Lamur and the formula takes in to account ALL losses and all gains.  I don't believe they signed a single FA from another team.  

Your first numerated point is spot on, though.  I don't think Reggie has been killing it for Oakland, but I think he would have still been better in this defense.  Hind sight being 20/20, we all thought Shawn had flashed enough to warrart that contract and he had earned his shot.  Perhaps Burfict lining everybody up will help Shawn.  I don't know, but I hope that Shawn might shine more as the season and his experience moves forward.

I hear ya loud and clear about the lack of depth, but I believe that the experience gained by Uzomah and Kroft will be invaluable.  Those guys have talent, and they are getting a chance to show their stuff as starters.  And while I agree that the defensive line is paper thin at DT, remember they drafted Billings for that.  He will be back next year.  WJIII could be back this year....possibly.  I completely disagree about the WRs, though.  It is on Zamp that he is rarely playing 3 WRs (which I think is a huge mistake) , but at this point of the season Boyd and Lafell have more yards and receptions than the 4-0 Bengals of a year ago did with Jones and Sanu.  They just need more opportunities.  I mean, Boyd looked great against pitt and what was his reward?  Minimal snaps against the Broncos.  I just don't get it sometimes.  Uzomah has 4 receptions for 45 yards in the first half and never sees another ball?  Crazy. Core will still be an impact, I'm guessing once they start going more 3 and 4 WR sets that he will get his chance.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-05-2016, 02:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Think we can convince the league to give us first downs based on a player "being a threat" instead of actually gaining yards?


As long as LaFell produces on the field other teams will have to work just a shard to stop him as they did Jones.


But since you brought it up, who would you have signed to replace Jones if you had control of our front office?

I know you weren't asking me, but with the rest of the WRs on the team, I have been wanting Ted Ginn as the vertial X for some time.  I know he was way overdrafted, but I thought his vertical speed and length was a missing piece of the puzzle for some time.  Carolina figured that out.  

[Derrick]

(10-05-2016, 02:18 PM)3wt Wrote: Except no one including Adam Jones is returning well, and Jones always looked better than Tate.   We are not blocking people.  So it's a little early to make that judgment.  Still I was surprised they did it.  Tate was nothing if not reliable and was always good for an exceptional catch downfield on the edge.

Tate would not have done well this year either. Too many new players on STs who have not grown into the job yet. And besides Peerman is out.

[bengaltruth]

(10-05-2016, 10:42 PM)Derrick Wrote: Tate would not have done well this year either. Too many new players on STs who have not grown into the job yet. And besides Peerman is out.

I disagree, So far cutting Tate seems like one of the under rated  disasters this season, With Pacman struggling and fumbling and Erickson under performing and costing us field position in Pitt and Denver. Tate also could take the top off a defense(sort of), so far no one has gone deep but Green it seems. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-05-2016, 09:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Which receiver looks like more of a deep threat

"A"....13.9 yards per catch, 18.7 percent of receptions go for 20+ yards
"B"....12.9 yards per catch, 17.9 percent of receptions go for 20+ yards





AJ drew double coverage last year and LaFell has more receptions through 4 games (13) than Jones did last year (10)

Whichever one is Marvin Jones.

Look, Lafell is decent enough, but he is not as good as Marvin is, IMO.  We all know it isn't the FO fault that Marvin left.....I even said as much, so you can get off that cavalry ride.  Last season at this time, we had Eifert on the field, you conveniently ignore that.  That took some targets away, because he was en fuego most of last season.  Also, Sanu was here, and getting targets......add to that, we also ran more 4 and 5 WR sets last season, so there were more targets to spread it around to.  We can't run as many 4 and 5 wides this year because your hero's unit up front is sucking hind tit, and can't block Betty White. I don't have the stats in front of me, mainly cause I have more shit to do than bother with it, but that what's sticks out in my mind as differences in the two seasons that you're not considering. Jones is balling out in Detroit right now......I'd say he's the better of the two, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-05-2016, 09:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Which receiver looks like more of a deep threat

"A"....13.9 yards per catch, 18.7 percent of receptions go for 20+ yards
"B"....12.9 yards per catch, 17.9 percent of receptions go for 20+ yards





AJ drew double coverage last year and LaFell has more receptions through 4 games (13) than Jones did last year (10)

We are throwing the ball a lot more this year. 

[Brownshoe]

(10-06-2016, 09:47 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We are throwing the ball a lot more this year. 

Wouldn't that help Marvin Jones more since its going by averages and not volume? 

[fredtoast]

(10-06-2016, 09:47 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: We are throwing the ball a lot more this year. 

Those stas do not include this year.

They are the numbers the coaches had to look at this offseason when making their decisions.

[grampahol]

Well they did let Paul Brown die.. Must be the front office's fault for sure..
This team is doing ok considering they haven't had a game yet against any slouch teams other than Miami and that was because their oline was badly banged up..
I don't expect them to win every single game and every single player to play like HOFers every single snap..
It's up and down like every team every year.

[*Go Cards*]

(10-04-2016, 03:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think the biggest mistake the FO/Owner has made is Mike Zimmer. That may well go down right behind Bill Walsh on the giant snafu list.

this

[*Go Cards*]

(10-05-2016, 05:52 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If they are clamping down on Green so much then why does he have more yards and catches now than at this point last season? Lafell and Boyd are not the problem with this offense, it's the run game and o-line play.

and this