Lack of turnovers and non existant return game is killing this team

[impactplaya]

has the kick return team even broke off a 40 yd return via kickoff return or punt return ?
how many INTS and fumble recoveries has the defense had 6 Games in?
yeah I know the offense has regressed in 2016..the numbers don't lie.
but it sure would be a big help to the offense if they could start a drive say outside the 35 40 yard line with a nice kick return. run a couple plays wham your across mid field
everytime I look up Erickson and Burkhead get stonewalled at the 23 yard line.
then the play sequence goes 4 yd catch by Green .....Hill stopped for 1 yd gain.....Benard 4 yd catch on check down ....punt.
getting the ball past the 30 really opens up the playbook and the defense has to overthink.
as for the defense goes it has more dropped INTS than actual INT. heck none of the LBS or S even have a pick. my kingdom for another Odell Thurman who had a knack for taking the ball away.
hey defense do your offense a favor and give them a short field
it's allowed by NFL rules

[J24]

I don't know what we can do about KR and PR unless we cut Eriksson and sign back Alford or a maybe a trade. Your 100% right about the D we need more splash plays from them. 1.) its start up front with the pass rush which has been underwhelming and 2.) athlectism at the LB and safety spot. The first issue seams hopeless but I have a solution for the 2nd issue. Move Shawn Williams to LB in nickel packages and put Deron Smith in at safety in nickel.

[impactplaya]

I think Alford had a injury settlement
Alex Ericksons 15 mins of fame is way up
I'd bring back Tremaine Mack out of retirement if it meant cutting him
there has to be a free agent waiting for his one chance to be a effective kick returner somewhere

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-19-2016, 12:15 AM)J24 Wrote: I don't know what we can do about KR and PR unless we cut Eriksson and sign back Alford or a maybe a trade. Your 100% right about the D we need more splash plays from them. 1.) its start up front with the pass rush which has been underwhelming and 2.) athlectism at the LB and safety spot. The first issue seams hopeless but I have a solution for the 2nd issue. Move Shawn Williams to LB in nickel packages and put Deron Smith in at safety in nickel.

(10-19-2016, 12:39 AM)impactplaya Wrote: I think Alford had a injury settlement
Alex Ericksons 15 mins of fame is way up
I'd bring back Tremaine Mack out of retirement if it meant cutting him
there has to be a free agent waiting for his one chance to be a effective kick returner somewhere

You could sign prime-of-his-career Hester and it still wouldn't matter. ST sucks. If you don't get blocks, you can't make returns. The starting offense can't make blocks worth a damn, what makes you think their backups will magically do better if someone other than Erickson is back there?

Even Adam Jones isn't doing anything in the return game this year.

(That's not me in support of Ericksson's play, it is just me saying the ST play is bad.)

[Junglejuice]

Offense has been humming between the 20s...except in dallas we are really missing red zone weapons. That is what is bogging down the offense... and our sub par running game.

[sonofstat]

(10-18-2016, 11:25 PM)impactplaya Wrote: has the kick return team even broke off a 40 yd return via kickoff return or punt return ?
how many INTS and fumble recoveries has the defense had 6 Games in?
yeah I know the offense has regressed in 2016..the numbers don't lie.
but it sure would be a big help to the offense if they could start a drive say outside the 35 40 yard line with a nice kick return. run a couple plays wham your across mid field
everytime I look up Erickson and Burkhead get stonewalled at the 23 yard line.
then the play sequence goes 4 yd catch by Green .....Hill stopped for 1 yd gain.....Benard 4 yd catch on check down ....punt.
getting the ball past the 30 really opens up the playbook and the defense has to overthink.
as for the defense  goes it has more dropped INTS than actual INT. heck none of the LBS or S even have a pick. my kingdom for another Odell Thurman who had a knack for taking the ball away.
hey defense do your offense a favor and give them a short field
it's allowed by NFL rules

Jeez...don't go giving out Zamp's secret sauce game plan to everyone.  We don't want to make it easy for them!

[CJD]

And here I was thinking the thing killing this team was the defense giving up 24 points per game and the offense only scoring 18 points per game.

[bengals67]

(10-19-2016, 09:59 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: And here I was thinking the thing killing this team was the defense giving up 24 points per game and only scoring 18 points per game.

Turnovers happen when you have a dominant D line which we do not.


Special teams - lots of punts getting fielded around the 10 which typical result in fair catch.  Poor returns otherwise are more of a function of poor blocking, not who is returning.

Did Jones and Sanu play special teams? who is missing from last year on special teams besides Peerman?

[3wt]

(10-19-2016, 12:51 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You could sign prime-of-his-career Hester and it still wouldn't matter. ST sucks. If you don't get blocks, you can't make returns. The starting offense can't make blocks worth a damn, what makes you think their backups will magically do better if someone other than Erickson is back there?

Even Adam Jones isn't doing anything in the return game this year.

(That's not me in support of Ericksson's play, it is just me saying the ST play is bad.)

This

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-19-2016, 12:51 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You could sign prime-of-his-career Hester and it still wouldn't matter. ST sucks. If you don't get blocks, you can't make returns. The starting offense can't make blocks worth a damn, what makes you think their backups will magically do better if someone other than Erickson is back there?

Even Adam Jones isn't doing anything in the return game this year.

(That's not me in support of Ericksson's play, it is just me saying the ST play is bad.)

That's what i've seen. I lost count on how many times i've said out loud during a game, "is anyone going to block?"

It's been like an entire kick coverage team meeting at the ball carrier. I did hear somewhere that 9 of the 11 guys are new to ST.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

It is definately more than just those 2 things that are killing us.

The O-line is the main problem and blocking all across the board, on ST's from our WR's to our TE's.

As TLL said, if Adam is not doing anything in the return game it is not just on our returners.

We picked off Ben twice in the Pitt game and still couldn't win it because of the refs.

We should of picked off Seimian twice and that game would of been much closer though.

[John Shaft]

We got rid of R/WR Brandon Tate making about $800,000 a year for this ? Tate is doing OK for the Bills. Avg production beats the current nonexistent production any day. Some of you guys along with Bengals brass are pure geniuses.

[Millhouse]

best stat site out there that is free http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
Turnovers also easily found on espn, nfl, etc sites too.

Bengals defense has 7 turnovers, 6 intros & 1 fumble recovery. They are pretty much right at league average (7.8) tied at 17th with the Clowns. I dont see this as a glaring issue though obviously more turnovers are always welcome.

However punt returns they are terrible, and not much better in kick returns. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/#all_returns

Punt returns - tied last in the league 32nd with the Cards with a 6.1 yard average. 15 yards is the longest this year.
Kickoff returns - tied 24th with the Steelers with a 19.8 yard average. 26 yards is the longest so far this year.

In other words, we have one of the worst return games in the entire league right now. So I agree with the OP, they arent doing the offense any favors at all with field position. Just absolutely awful.

[*jason*]

(10-19-2016, 09:59 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: And here I was thinking the thing killing this team was the defense giving up 24 points per game and only scoring 18 points per game.

Get outta here with your advanced metrics.

[TSwigZ]

And the fact we have major O Line issues

[lostpoet2]

(10-19-2016, 02:02 PM)Millhouse Wrote: best stat site out there that is free http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
Turnovers also easily found on espn, nfl, etc sites too.

Bengals defense has 7 turnovers, 6 intros & 1 fumble recovery. They are pretty much right at league average (7.8) tied at 17th with the Clowns. I dont see this as a glaring issue though obviously more turnovers are always welcome.

However punt returns they are terrible, and not much better in kick returns. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/#all_returns

Punt returns -  tied last in the league 32nd with the Cards with a 6.1 yard average. 15 yards is the longest this year.
Kickoff returns - tied 24th with the Steelers with a 19.8 yard average. 26 yards is the longest so far this year.

In other words, we have one of the worst return games in the entire league right now. So I agree with the OP, they arent doing the offense any favors at all with field position. Just absolutely awful.

Great stats links! From that page, what stands out to me is our defense is giving up 5.9 yards per play and opposing quarterbacks have a 105.3 QB rating.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-19-2016, 02:02 PM)Millhouse Wrote: best stat site out there that is free http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm
Turnovers also easily found on espn, nfl, etc sites too.

Bengals defense has 7 turnovers, 6 intros & 1 fumble recovery. They are pretty much right at league average (7.8) tied at 17th with the Clowns. I dont see this as a glaring issue though obviously more turnovers are always welcome.

However punt returns they are terrible, and not much better in kick returns. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/#all_returns

Punt returns -  tied last in the league 32nd with the Cards with a 6.1 yard average. 15 yards is the longest this year.
Kickoff returns - tied 24th with the Steelers with a 19.8 yard average. 26 yards is the longest so far this year.

In other words, we have one of the worst return games in the entire league right now. So I agree with the OP, they arent doing the offense any favors at all with field position. Just absolutely awful.

Thanks for this Millhouse, sure would like to see Core out there more and even use Boyd some more on Returns
with Burkhead blocking. I think this would really help our return game, people can say we shouldn't use one of our
top receiving threats on returns but we won't always return kicks and this needs to improve.

Plus lots of teams like the Steelers use their best WR on returns. Can turn games around.