Defensive Personnel changes coming?

[bengalsturntup926]

He won't replace them completely, can you imagine peko and michael Johnson and maualuga all on the bench? That's not going to happen, not released either. Maybe in the off season they will move on. They don't have the balls like bill belicheck. He's straight business.

[wolverine515151]

This team obviously keeps bad players too long. Peko MJ Dansby Mauluga Kirpatrick would never sniff the field for the Patriots.

[sonofstat]

(11-02-2016, 06:29 AM)wolverine515151 Wrote: This team obviously keeps bad players too long. Peko MJ Dansby Mauluga Kirpatrick would never sniff the field for the Patriots.

They've not been bad players. But i would agree under Marv we tend to be too conservative - that includes not playing younger guys earlier which i guess is the flip of keeping under performing guys as starters 

Certainly in the case of Peko , MJ and Rey M its more are the coaches guilty of 'being loyal to a fault'.  

It's harder for those types of players to say they are newbies and do not know what they are doing and don't know the defense. 

So as they are clearly not trying to be bad its more of a case that they are not physically getting it done...so let's see if a younger , faster , hungrier guy can make an impact.

Re: Dansby I really don't put it on him.  He's a 13 year vet who's played a hell of games and we're expecting him to run with these super athletic tight ends - what did we think was going to happen?  The coaches are putting him in that position....yeah you could say that there are no other options but that is still on the coaches too ...Lamur, Flowers, Vigil..if they're not happy then one of these guys should/must be developed. If they can't coach them up then lobby damn harder to draft a Rd1/2 LB.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-01-2016, 03:59 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Change the scheme first, won't make any difference who's out there if they're coached to play 10-15 yards off receivers. #BresnahanIsBack

I got to the third post before I read the exact feelings I have on the matter.  This is dead on.

However, I would STILL get the other players more snaps in an effort to develop them and see what we have in them before the season is over.  

[wolverine515151]

You need both the correct scheme and the correct players. Having one without the other will not produce a good outcome.

If we keep using iloka at free safety even though its obvious he cant play free safety a change in scheme isnt going to correct that weakeness. The correct players and correct scheme is needed to be used at the correct time . For example you wont use maualuga or dansby on passing downs.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(11-01-2016, 03:35 PM)sonofstat Wrote: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Defense-considering-personnel-changes/690641b1-66c0-40a5-8147-b2aa3e47b221

Sounds like Paulie G wants to rattle some cages in the bye week too.

maybe more Will Clarke, Sims, Shaw, Smith and Vigil??

Sims over Peko is a must. Im tired of seeing Domata whiffing on tackles.

Shaw is already getting more snaps then Dennard.

Clarke might play better than MJ.

Shawn Williams isn't getting it done at safety. I think he's best suited as a guy coming off the bench. Iloka needs a savvy vet like Reggie to play well.

Vigil might play better than Dansby at this point. Karlos has lost a step or three.

[fredtoast]

(11-02-2016, 03:02 AM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: "Just after three years"

Lol. And you think I'm the troll?

Not sure what you mean, but a guy with Brats track record would usually be given at least a couple of bad year before getting canned.  In 2007 the Bengals had the #11 scoring offense and in Bobby's 10 seasons prior to that as an OC in the NFL he had produced 6 top 10 scoring units (with 2 different head coaches and 3 different starting QBs) and only twice finished out of the top half of the league.  

So Maybe the Bengals kept him one season too long hoping he would regain the magic,  but that is nothing like the claims that coaches NEVER get fired around here.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2016, 08:55 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Sims over Peko is a must. Im tired of seeing Domata whiffing on tackles.

Shaw is already getting more snaps then Dennard.

Clarke might play better than MJ.

Shawn Williams isn't getting it done at safety. I think he's best suited as a guy coming off the bench. Iloka needs a savvy vet like Reggie to play well.

Vigil might play better than Dansby at this point. Karlos has lost a step or three.

Yep, and they're hinting at more Darqueze out of the slot....which....if memory serves.....is out of position for him.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

I see a lot of posts alluding to the aging vets on this team.  I agree, but it harkens back to discussions that have been had about the window closing on these boys.  It sure seems it has slammed shut this season!  Maybe the sky was falling.....lol.  I hate to say it, but it is looking like last season was "the year", and a broken thumb deep sixed that.  The curse of Bo rages on......

[wolfkaosaun]

(11-02-2016, 09:17 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, and they're hinting at more Darqueze out of the slot....which....if memory serves.....is out of position for him.

It is.

Shaw has played safety and even nickel CB in USC. He has a better grasp of the position and that suits his strengths very well. He's a good nickel CB and has always been around the ball.

Dennard is an outside CB. He uses sidelines to his advantages and is able to mirror very well.

Only issue is, cornerbacks only get better with reps. So unless they bench Adam Jones, we may have to wait another year for Dennard to even be put at his true position.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-02-2016, 02:12 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: It is.

Shaw has played safety and even nickel CB in USC. He has a better grasp of the position and that suits his strengths very well. He's a good nickel CB and has always been around the ball.

Dennard is an outside CB. He uses sidelines to his advantages and is able to mirror very well.

Only issue is, cornerbacks only get better with reps. So unless they bench Adam Jones, we may have to wait another year for Dennard to even be put at his true position.

I thought so....thanks for the refresher.  

[THE Bigzoman]

(11-02-2016, 02:12 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: It is.

Shaw has played safety and even nickel CB in USC. He has a better grasp of the position and that suits his strengths very well. He's a good nickel CB and has always been around the ball.

Dennard is an outside CB. He uses sidelines to his advantages and is able to mirror very well.

Only issue is, cornerbacks only get better with reps. So unless they bench Adam Jones, we may have to wait another year for Dennard to even be put at his true position.

That is, unless Dennard sees more snap per Guenther's recent development.

[Derrick]

(11-01-2016, 09:56 PM)Beaker Wrote: These are basically the same players who held the patriots to six points at our place.

I think people forget we have a new D line coach, new LBs coach and new secondary coaches. The same guys on D line who were getting to the opponent's QB while rushing 4 under Jay Hayes' tutelage are no longer getting there. The same LBs (save Dansby) who were stopping the run under Matt Burke, are now missing tackles under Haslett. The same secondary players who were ball hawking and preventing long plays under Joseph and Carrier are now giving up plays under Coyle. I think it is much more a case of the techniques the new coaches are teaching than all of a sudden the players have forgotten how to cover or make tackles.

If the players know what works (I.e. previous season) -- why don't they just do that?

[Trademark]

Good, hope he benches useless Peko

[SFmajor]

(11-01-2016, 04:28 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Is he talking to Jones? Atkins? Kirkpatrick? The whole linebacking corp???

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Defense-considering-personnel-changes/690641b1-66c0-40a5-8147-b2aa3e47b221

I think he's talking about saving his job.  ML and PG need to look at a number of areas besides personnel changes.  One or two guys going from 0 snaps to 20 snaps isn't going to be enough.  If they went from to seeing 6-8 guys going from 0 snaps to 20 snaps, you might see something happen then.  Defense schemes and positioning on the field might need a serious look as well.

[wolfkaosaun]

(11-02-2016, 03:09 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: That is, unless Dennard sees more snap per Guenther's recent development.

I hope so in all honesty. Adam Jones has lost a step and his time may be coming to an end.

I appreciate all he's done and he was a tremendous player for us. But he seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on.

[jfkbengals]

Jones was among the core guys mentioned in the article that won't be impacted, and Dennard was among those mentioned as getting increased snaps. So those snaps will either be in Dre's spot or Shaw's. For those who feel that he shouldn't be playing in the slot, you'll recall Marvin mentioned he felt the defense did not miss a beat when Dennard took snaps in place of Hall last season prior to his injury.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-02-2016, 02:12 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: It is.

Shaw has played safety and even nickel CB in USC. He has a better grasp of the position and that suits his strengths very well. He's a good nickel CB and has always been around the ball.

Dennard is an outside CB. He uses sidelines to his advantages and is able to mirror very well.

Only issue is, cornerbacks only get better with reps. So unless they bench Adam Jones, we may have to wait another year for Dennard to even be put at his true position.

Slide Adam into the slot, like they did with Hall at the end of his run here. If he's lost a step, it won't show up as much here, he's played it before, here, and it gives them a chance to put Dennard outside to see if he can be more effective.

I like keeping Shaw at CB, rotating in the nickle or playing in the dime. I'm just a bit iffy on Williams right now. Hopefully, with some more time, he'll improve but i'd have no problem with him rotating more with Smith until one of them just takes over with his play (if that even happens).

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-02-2016, 02:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Bratkowski was fired after just 3 bad years.  Fitzgerald was fired after two.

Coaches here know they can get fired if they don't produce, but even if they didn't believe this was true I am sure they would do everything possible to be as successful as possible.  I can't imagine any coach at the NFL level saying "I won't play my best players because I don't want to look like I am doing a good job."

(11-02-2016, 09:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure what you mean, but a guy with Brats track record would usually be given at least a couple of bad year before getting canned.  In 2007 the Bengals had the #11 scoring offense and in Bobby's 10 seasons prior to that as an OC in the NFL he had produced 6 top 10 scoring units (with 2 different head coaches and 3 different starting QBs) and only twice finished out of the top half of the league.  

So Maybe the Bengals kept him one season too long hoping he would regain the magic,  but that is nothing like the claims that coaches NEVER get fired around here.

Bengals O Scoring Ranks Under Brat...

2001: 31st (out of 31)
2002: 28th (32 teams now)
2003: 13th
2004: 10th
2005: 4th
2006: 8th
2007: 11th
2008: 32nd
2009: 22nd
2010: 22nd

He produced more offenses 22nd or worse (5) than top-10 offenses (3).

Heck, he finished LAST in the league only one less time (2) than in the top-10 (3).

He finished in the bottom 5 (3) as many times as the top-10 (3).


- - - - -  - - - - - -

Maybe it's the contrarian in you just loving to pick stances that you know will be ridiculous, but you need to get over your love of defending bad coaches (Brat/Marvin/Alexander) and bad players (Nuge).

Or just go back under your bridge.

[sixxfan26]

(11-02-2016, 06:29 AM)wolverine515151 Wrote: This team obviously keeps bad players too long. Peko MJ Dansby Mauluga Kirpatrick would never sniff the field for the Patriots.

Agreed. I've always felt like a lot of our starters (not all) would be either 2nd string for other clubs, or not in the NFL at all.