Fisher at RT?????

[XenoMorph]

(11-17-2016, 10:14 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: News flash!

He's already getting Dalton killed at RT. He was Johnny Footballs LT though.

and johnny footballs spent a lot of time scrambling lol...

Cedric might turn out well but his first go of it has been ruff...

Worse case he can make him an OG and just keep extended whitworth.

[NATI BENGALS]

Other coaches try different stuff when what you are doing isn't working. The biggest change we made coming off the bye was grabbing a washed up vet off the street and activating him over a bust 2nd round pick and turning the starting nickel job over to a first round pick because Shaw was to blame for all the secondary problems apparently.

To keep trotting Bodine and Ogbuehi out there and not not even attempting anything different other than occasionally plugging the washed up vet OL in at RT to have an average run game push is ridiculous. Our coaches settle for sub par play and because of draft position and years in the league are afraid to make changes.

We had a long bye week where Westerman should have been getting ready to make the start at C and Fisher at RT. Zeitler is probably chasing the money this year in free agency. We have a ton of questions on the OL. Time to see if we have any answers on the roster.

[BengalChris]

(11-16-2016, 11:53 AM)corpjet Wrote: Why hasn't Fisher been tried at RT?

Is he worse than both Ced and Winston?  What am I missing?

With Ced Og playing about as poorly as a 2nd year right tackle can play and the simple fact that Fisher hasn't supplanted him in the line up means he's worse than Og and Winston in practice.

[J24]

(11-17-2016, 11:56 PM)BengalChris Wrote: With Ced Og playing about as poorly as a 2nd year right tackle can play and the simple fact that Fisher hasn't supplanted him in the line up means he's worse than Og and Winston in practice.

Anyone that knows the Bengals knows this isnt exactly true. For example we started Nate livings over  kevin Mathis for a couple of years and we started Robert Geathers over Carlos Dunlap for years. Also Tank Johnson over Geno Atkins during Genos rookie season. There isn't a team in professional sports that plays politics more than the Bengals.

[BengalChris]

(11-18-2016, 11:47 PM)J24 Wrote: Anyone that knows the Bengals knows this isnt exactly true. For example we started Nate livings over  kevin Mathis for a couple of years and we started Robert Geathers over Carlos Dunlap for years. Also Tank Johnson over Geno Atkins during Genos rookie season. There isn't a team in professional sports that plays politics more than the Bengals.

It's not like Og has earned his spot or anything. The dude has missed both training camps. That alone should have earned him the bench to start the year.

I do know about the Marvin Lewis system for who starts. It's part of what is wrong with him as a HC.

[J24]

(11-19-2016, 12:06 AM)BengalChris Wrote: It's not like Og has earned his spot or anything. The dude has missed both training camps. That alone should have earned him the bench to start the year.

I do know about the Marvin Lewis system for who starts. It's part of what is wrong with him as a HC.

Og was first round pick and Fisher was a second round pick. Og makes more money than Fisher there for he starts over Fisher. 

[BengalChris]

(11-19-2016, 12:09 AM)J24 Wrote: Og was first round pick and Fisher was a second round pick. Og makes more money than Fisher there for he starts over Fisher. 

That only makes sense if the coach is so insecure in his job that he doesn't want anyone to know that his 1st round selection is a bust so quickly.

Now it has cost the team games and a chance for a 6th consecutive playoff bid. That's more damaging to Marv's career than just admitting that the 1st round tackle hasn't earned his chance to start yet.

If Fisher were clearly better than Og, he'd be starting. I'm pretty sure of that at this point in time.

EDIT: I'm going to add this:

PFF rates Ogbuehi 75th in pass blocking out of 79 tackle spots.

There are 64 starting OT spots. To be #75 makes him worse than every other starter in the league, plus worse than several backups who have had to step in as starters. That's some pretty bad suckingness right there.

[SYLVIA]

I think we need to try all new players on the line, until we get the best mix. I have heard doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome, is insane.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-19-2016, 07:50 PM)SYLVIA Wrote: I think we need to try all new players on the line, until we get the best mix. I have heard doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome, is insane.

AS for me, I think that we need to try a new OL Coach...

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-19-2016, 12:21 AM)BengalChris Wrote: That only makes sense if the coach is so insecure in his job that he doesn't want anyone to know that his 1st round selection is a bust so quickly.

Now it has cost the team games and a chance for a 6th consecutive playoff bid. That's more damaging to Marv's career than just admitting that the 1st round tackle hasn't earned his chance to start yet.

If Fisher were clearly better than Og, he'd be starting. I'm pretty sure of that at this point in time.

EDIT: I'm going to add this:

PFF rates Ogbuehi 75th in pass blocking out of 79 tackle spots.

There are 64 starting OT spots. To be #75 makes him worse than every other starter in the league, plus worse than several backups who have had to step in as starters. That's some pretty bad suckingness right there.

You just didn't understand what the guy just told you. It's been proved before best man doesn't start!

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The offensive line in Cincinnati needs a major shake-up -- but outside of replacing their hapless coach, there might be some different combinations the Bengals might try. So, from left tackle to right tackle, here are my suggestions.

Normal: Whitworth, Boling, Bodine, Zeitler, Ogbuehi.

Alternate suggestions: Fisher, Whitworth, Johnson, Zeitler, Winston.

Fisher, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Winston

Ogbuehi, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Fisher

Whitworth, Boling, Johnson, Zeitler, Fisher

[treee]

(11-20-2016, 10:59 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The offensive line in Cincinnati needs a major shake-up -- but outside of replacing their hapless coach, there might be some different combinations the Bengals might try.  So, from left tackle to right tackle, here are my suggestions.

Normal:  Whitworth, Boling, Bodine, Zeitler, Ogbuehi.

Alternate suggestions:  Fisher, Whitworth, Johnson, Zeitler, Winston.

Fisher, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Winston

Ogbuehi, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Fisher

Whitworth, Boling, Johnson, Zeitler, Fisher

So basically just get Bodine and Ogbuehi off the field . I like Fisher, Whit, Boling, Zeitler, Winston the best.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-20-2016, 10:59 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The offensive line in Cincinnati needs a major shake-up -- but outside of replacing their hapless coach, there might be some different combinations the Bengals might try.  So, from left tackle to right tackle, here are my suggestions.

Normal:  Whitworth, Boling, Bodine, Zeitler, Ogbuehi.

Alternate suggestions:  Fisher, Whitworth, Johnson, Zeitler, Winston.

Fisher, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Winston

Ogbuehi, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Fisher

Whitworth, Boling, Johnson, Zeitler, Fisher

I sense another survey!!!

Mine would look like this:

Fisher, Whit, Bodine, Boling, Og

I know that is three different positions, and I left Bodine in.  Unfortunately, Bodine isn't likely going anywhere, but moving Whit to Guard gives them a look at if they believe he could handle that spot and extend him for two more years if it works.  Fisher would gain experience next to Whit.  Boling is at least solid.  Og has to get more experience and hopefully show some development.  I would give him a rest (mentally more than anything) from time to time with Winston, but he isn't the answer, either.

The draft will need at least one Guard and perhaps start giving Westerman snaps at Center.  I just don't think it is realistic for him to come in and play Center at this point of the season.  Perhaps he could rotate with Boling at Guard.  

I don't see how they handle Zeitler...It isn't like you can bench the guy in his contract year.  I am with the majority that believes a lot of his issues are Og-related. 

It is a mess, no doubt.  I believe the immediate fix is two TE sets, and maybe some three TE sets.  Whit to Guard next year, and get Og a lot of strength training and mental snaps.  

[SunsetBengal]

(11-20-2016, 10:59 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The offensive line in Cincinnati needs a major shake-up -- but outside of replacing their hapless coach, there might be some different combinations the Bengals might try.  So, from left tackle to right tackle, here are my suggestions.

Normal:  Whitworth, Boling, Bodine, Zeitler, Ogbuehi.

Alternate suggestions:  Fisher, Whitworth, Johnson, Zeitler, Winston.

Fisher, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Winston

Ogbuehi, Whitworth, Boling, Zeitler, Fisher

Whitworth, Boling, Johnson, Zeitler, Fisher

I think this combination would be interesting, as I see it as setting the strength of the line from the inside working outward.  It could definitely be a shot in the arm for the interior rushing attack, as well as a sound foundation for a pocket that Andy could step up into.  Not going to lie, the edges would still be very suspect, but they could use Ogbuehi as the extra T/TE role, similar to what they did with Roland.

[treee]

(11-20-2016, 11:39 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think this combination would be interesting, as I see it as setting the strength of the line from the inside working outward.  It could definitely be a shot in the arm for the interior rushing attack, as well as a sound foundation for a pocket that Andy could step up into.  Not going to lie, the edges would still be very suspect, but they could use Ogbuehi as the extra T/TE role, similar to what they did with Roland.

Not to mention it is more difficult to pull block from center, which is a big strength of Boling's. But even then, that lineup would get our 2 biggest liabilities off the field.

[fredtoast]

(11-18-2016, 11:47 PM)J24 Wrote: Anyone that knows the Bengals knows this isnt exactly true. For example we started Nate livings over  kevin Mathis for a couple of years and we started Robert Geathers over Carlos Dunlap for years. Also Tank Johnson over Geno Atkins during Genos rookie season. There isn't a team in professional sports that plays politics more than the Bengals.

Mathis was splitting time as starter with Livings until he got injured in '09.  In '10 Mathis did not deserve to start.

Geathers started simply because he was solid against the run and we rotated D-linemen.  Dunlap generally played more than half of the snaps.

Geno Atkins did not arrive here as the most dominate DT in the league.  Instead he was a 4th round pick who had not even dominated on the college level.

[fredtoast]

(11-19-2016, 07:50 PM)SYLVIA Wrote: I think we need to try all new players on the line, until we get the best mix. I have heard doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome, is insane.

Brilliant way to fix an O-line.  Just bench the whole crew every week.  I am sure that is the way all the great O-line coaches do it.  No need for the group to learn to work as a unit.

[*wildcats forever*]

(11-20-2016, 11:39 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think this combination would be interesting, as I see it as setting the strength of the line from the inside working outward.  It could definitely be a shot in the arm for the interior rushing attack, as well as a sound foundation for a pocket that Andy could step up into.  Not going to lie, the edges would still be very suspect, but they could use Ogbuehi as the extra T/TE role, similar to what they did with Roland.

I haven't looked at Fisher close enough to imagine what his performance would be like as LT. Giving up the blind side protection Dalton has enjoyed from Whit gives me cause to pause. though. This might take more effort for success than what time is available during a 'normal' week, given the weekly game prep requirements at hand.

I'm leaning toward keeping Winston as starter at RT, and bringing in Ogbuehi and/or Fisher for extra blocking. I am assuming Bodine can be taught to stop 'putting' the ball back to Dalton. His low snaps lately are exacerbating the problem. My main reluctance in moving Whit anywhere is based on fear for Dalton's health and safety, not that he's home-free now. At least he can see the train heading towards him with the way it's been. All 50 of them at this pace.

Realistically, a major shakeup of the line at mid-season will likely require more time and effort than what is available. We just don't have the depth to pull off a remake.

[treee]

(11-20-2016, 12:30 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: I haven't looked at Fisher close enough to imagine what his performance would be like as LT. Giving up the blind side protection Dalton has enjoyed from Whit gives me cause to pause. though. This might take more effort for success than what time is available during a 'normal' week, given the weekly game prep requirements at hand.

I'm leaning toward keeping Winston as starter at RT, and bringing in Ogbuehi and/or Fisher for extra blocking. I am assuming Bodine can be taught to stop 'putting' the ball back to Dalton. His low snaps lately are exacerbating the problem. My main reluctance in moving Whit anywhere is based on fear for Dalton's health and safety, not that he's home-free now. At least he can see the train heading towards him with the way it's been. All 50 of them at this pace.

Realistically, a major shakeup of the line at mid-season will likely require more time and effort than what is available. We just don't have the depth to pull off a remake.

That is a fair point. If there is one position you don't want to be iffy on, its LT.