Off-season plan, version 1.0

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-29-2016, 09:12 AM)sonofstat Wrote: Funny how things change. 

Couple of years back I would have said Zeitler all the way would be re-signed and DreK walks. Especially as Dennard was drafted R1...

Now I think the bigger impact right now would be to lose Drek so if it was one i would resign him. 

To be honest if we're putting money down on the OLine right now I would look at the RT options as if that stays an issue next year then even having John Hannah as your OG is not gonna stop dalton getting blasted by edge rushers. Can't believe we can eke another decent year out of Winston.

I would prefer to keep Zeitler too but its all about the cash....unfortunately we've got so many holes so its about priorities.  

Damn...it would be a lot simpler if Fisher and/or Ced miraculously show some improvement.  Would give us so much more flexibility in rebuilding DE/LB

I think this has become a more common trend with OTs in the NFL.  They simply don't run NFL schemes and aren't prepared whatsoever when they come in.  It is as though the Bengals just drafted the best prototypical athletes at the position and think they can teach them how to play.  Risky proposition, and they did it with both tackles. 

I think, to be fair to Ced, that his injuries and lack of any camps have really hurt him.  

Part of my frustration of it all is instead of helping him with a TE, they usually put him out there and let him get destroyed.  Maybe he should just sit and watch Winston for a while.  He sure isn't learning by getting dusted time and time again.  

[Hammerstripes]

Why do people keep bringing up this whole "Marvin to GM thing"

It's pretty clear to anyone that Tobin is mainly responsible for the drafting of the team.

[Hammerstripes]

(11-29-2016, 08:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Not me....I think Westerman could fill the void left by Zeitler's departure.  We haven't seen enough of Dennard or WJIII to think we could let Dre go, and we would be paper-thin in depth at the CB position.  Dre stays.  You could make an argument about Zeitler staying as well, but it would need to be a realistic contract.  If he thinks he is getting anything close to DeCastro money, he's crazy.  

Let some other team sign him for too much money, and gain a 3rd round compensatory pick for him in 2019.  

In all fairness, how can you say that we haven't seen enough of Dennard or WJIII to let Dre walk yet you are ok with Zeitler leaving and we haven't seen ANYTHING out of Westerman.  I think if there is one thing we learned this year is that we can't project a starter to perform without seeing anything from him.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-28-2016, 02:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I like the idea of Pryor...but I don't know if he comes here as he was in camp with us and we cut him.

Too bad the Bengals didn't try to move him to WR.

IIRC Pryor didn't want to play WR when he was with the Bengals.
Hue Jackson wanted him to try, but he wouldn't do it.

I think Pryor sticks with Cleveland, as Jackson was the one who had this faith and vision in Pyor all along. Plus Pryor would be the top WR in Cleveland. Not in Cincy.

[Southendbengal]

I know its not an apples and oranges comparison but I think the Panthers showed you can make a deep run with a fairly no-name group at WR last year.
That being the case my call would be to invest heavily on the lines. I'm not prepared to give up on Fisher or Og yet but I am willing to maybe see if a one year rental might help improve the situation or ease the workload? (I'm not a coach, I'm not sure what the root cause of the problem is here to fix it.)
Also Dre K really has been the most consistent starter in the secondary. So yeah I'd like to bring him back but I fear there is a chance that this might be a Jones situation again where we might well match the offer but would he might want to test himself elsewhere. Just my humble opinion which I hope is wrong.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-29-2016, 03:33 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: In all fairness, how can you say that we haven't seen enough of Dennard or WJIII to let Dre walk yet you are ok with Zeitler leaving and we haven't seen ANYTHING out of Westerman.  I think if there is one thing we learned this year is that we can't project a starter to perform without seeing anything from him.

That is why any coach with a football IQ over 40 would be giving Westerman snaps now and splitting time with Zeitler.  Either Zeitler rises to the challenge and plays his best or he is shown up, either way, his value as a compensatory pick would only increase.  

I would do the same thing with TJ Johnson and Bodine.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-29-2016, 04:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: IIRC Pryor didn't want to play WR when he was with the Bengals.
Hue Jackson wanted him to try, but he wouldn't do it.

I think Pryor sticks with Cleveland, as Jackson was the one who had this faith and vision in Pyor all along. Plus Pryor would be the top WR in Cleveland. Not in Cincy.

So, you think Pryor would rather play for a team where he would see constant double-teams?  That doesn't make a lot of sense.  And the Bengals gave him a shot before Cleveland.  

[BoomerFan]

(11-29-2016, 09:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: That is why any coach with a football IQ over 40 would be giving Westerman snaps now and splitting time with Zeitler.  Either Zeitler rises to the challenge and plays his best or he is shown up, either way, his value as a compensatory pick would only increase.  

I would do the same thing with TJ Johnson and Bodine.  

TJ Johnson got a couple of drives last game after the bad snap from Bodine caused a fumble. One of those was a TD. Maybe he really could be the future solution. 

Also, it really blows my mind how good Rex Burkhead looks when he gets the ball, and yet it seems like the team basically does everything they can to make it happen as rarely as possible. I am so sick of Jeremy Hilly running into a big pile. Go to the open space -- how hard is that?

I will say Dre Kirkpatrick is a definite keeper. I'd love to have Zeitler too but if we can only afford one, we need a real starting CB desperately and Dre is just that. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

If Hue Jackson comes back to Cincinnati it must not be as head coach. If anything he made Cleveland worse.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-29-2016, 09:19 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, you think Pryor would rather play for a team where he would see constant double-teams?  That doesn't make a lot of sense.  And the Bengals gave him a shot before Cleveland.  

Marvin Jones left the team that drafted him just to be a #1. 

[Socal Bengals fan]

Priority number 1. Garrett, Burnette, or Allen like someone mentioned. Draft that DE that would give Atkins , and Dunlap some much needed help. They desperately need help along the front line. All 3 of those guys are studs and worthy of top 10 pick.

[wolfkaosaun]

Not gonna talk about coaching changes because they're not going to happen.

1. Draft Barnett. We need another pass rusher and Barnett adds that.

2. Draft an athletic linebacker. We have lacked atheltic linebackers for so long, look for Raekwon in the 2nd.

3. Let TJ Johnson compete for the center position.

4. Resign Whit and move him to interior IF they let Zeitler walk. Also, allow Fisher to become RT since he's better suited there than Ogubehi.

5. For the love of all that's holy, fix up Ogubehi's technique. He has the qualities you want in a tackle and athletic ability in both size and speed. But his technique is lacking. Doesn't stay engaged and has happy feet. Work on lower body strength, anchoring, and staying engaged. If he can do that, he'll be fine. Just someone please work on his technique.

6. Let Pacman and Peko go. I like them both, but it's time to move on. Peko is now a liability all the way around and we have Billings ready to step in. Pacman seems to have reached the end. We have young guys that deserve a chance. We have Kirkpatrick (if resigned), Dennard, Shaw, WJIII, and Russell. Those were all highly viewed CBs coming out of college. The issue is, CB is the hardest position to transition to in the NFL. Look at every CBs start. They've all had early struggles. Such as Peterson and Sherman. You need more reps. Plus, Dennard is not a slot/nickel CB. Having him there is a waste of his talents. Let him work on the outside and get better there.
However, if Kirkaptrick is not resigned then I'm fine with Pacman staying.

7.Resign Kirkpatrick and/or Zeitler.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-29-2016, 09:50 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: TJ Johnson got a couple of drives last game after the bad snap from Bodine caused a fumble. One of those was a TD. Maybe he really could be the future solution. 

Also, it really blows my mind how good Rex Burkhead looks when he gets the ball, and yet it seems like the team basically does everything they can to make it happen as rarely as possible. I am so sick of Jeremy Hilly running into a big pile. Go to the open space -- how hard is that?

I will say Dre Kirkpatrick is a definite keeper. I'd love to have Zeitler too but if we can only afford one, we need a real starting CB desperately and Dre is just that. 

I would imagine they could make a signing for Zeitler work, but I would rather see Pryor signed.  This offense is a dead stick once AJ Green is off the field.  Having a vertical threat opposite him would make everything more effective....including the running game.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-30-2016, 06:36 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Not gonna talk about coaching changes because they're not going to happen.

1. Draft Barnett. We need another pass rusher and Barnett adds that.

2. Draft an athletic linebacker. We have lacked atheltic linebackers for so long, look for Raekwon in the 2nd.

3. Let TJ Johnson compete for the center position.

4. Resign Whit and move him to interior IF they let Zeitler walk. Also, allow Fisher to become RT since he's better suited there than Ogubehi.

5. For the love of all that's holy, fix up Ogubehi's technique. He has the qualities you want in a tackle and athletic ability in both size and speed. But his technique is lacking. Doesn't stay engaged and has happy feet. Work on lower body strength, anchoring, and staying engaged. If he can do that, he'll be fine. Just someone please work on his technique.

6. Let Pacman and Peko go. I like them both, but it's time to move on. Peko is now a liability all the way around and we have Billings ready to step in. Pacman seems to have reached the end. We have young guys that deserve a chance. We have Kirkpatrick (if resigned), Dennard, Shaw, WJIII, and Russell. Those were all highly viewed CBs coming out of college. The issue is, CB is the hardest position to transition to in the NFL. Look at every CBs start. They've all had early struggles. Such as Peterson and Sherman. You need more reps. Plus, Dennard is not a slot/nickel CB. Having him there is a waste of his talents. Let him work on the outside and get better there.
However, if Kirkaptrick is not resigned then I'm fine with Pacman staying.

7.Resign Kirkpatrick and/or Zeitler.

Pretty much on the same page, but no way do I let Adam Jones go, and no way do I put Og at LT.  Fisher should get his opportunity at LT this year, and give Whit snaps inside.  Maybe we will actually see more of this when they lose Sunday and are finally eliminated with 3 wins in 12 games.  Ugh. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-30-2016, 04:00 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Marvin Jones left the team that drafted him just to be a #1. 

Marvin Jones left the AFC North for a defense-optional NFC North.  Playing Chicago and Green Bay twice a year is a lot more fun than putzburgh and Baltimore.  He is also playing in a dome, with an indoor practice facility.  

[Sled21]

(11-30-2016, 07:47 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Marvin Jones left the AFC North for a defense-optional NFC North.  Playing Chicago and Green Bay twice a year is a lot more fun than putzburgh and Baltimore.  He is also playing in a dome, with an indoor practice facility.  

And in a much larger market where he can build his brand, sell more jerseys, etc....

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2016, 09:19 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, you think Pryor would rather play for a team where he would see constant double-teams?  That doesn't make a lot of sense.  And the Bengals gave him a shot before Cleveland.  

Sometimes being the top WR on a team and seeing constant double teams is more important to the individual than being second fiddle and seeing single coverage. Marvin Jones is a great example. He valued being a WR1 on Detroit rather than sign back with Cincinnati.

[740Bengal]

I could care less about Marvin's feelings, if I was the owner I would already made a public example and Lane Kiffin'd him at the Air Port.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-30-2016, 10:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Sometimes being the top WR on a team and seeing constant double teams is more important to the individual than being second fiddle and seeing single coverage. Marvin Jones is a great example. He valued being a WR1 on Detroit rather than sign back with Cincinnati.

Well...2nd WR sees a lot less targets too. Dalton would rather force the ball to a doubled Green than a singled Jones.

[wolfkaosaun]

(11-30-2016, 07:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Pretty much on the same page, but no way do I let Adam Jones go, and no way do I put Og at LT.  Fisher should get his opportunity at LT this year, and give Whit snaps inside.  Maybe we will actually see more of this when they lose Sunday and are finally eliminated with 3 wins in 12 games.  Ugh. 

Fisher is a better fit at RT, however he also seems more ready than Ogubehi. But we're seeing Whit lose a step and if Zeitler walks, they may move him inside. So that still leaves Ogubehi on one side.

Pacman all depends on Kirkpatrick for me. If Kirkpatrick walks, keep him. If Kirkpatrick stays, we have too much talent to leave on the bench anymore and need to make changes. We're seeing the last of Pacman. He's struggled this season.