All-Bengals team just from the Lewis era.

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 03:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to NFL.com Peko (98) had 16 more tackles than Hayden (82) over the last two years

Peko
2014 - 27 solo, 7 assist
2013 - 31 solo, 9 assist

Hayden
2014 - 28 solo, 7 assist
2013 - 30 solo, 12 assist

Those are PFF's numbers, just so you know the data I was using.

Either way, with your logic, there's no way we could reach the conclusion of Hayden being anything but good with 82 tackles over 2 years. In reality, he's been atrocious against the run, yet has all of those tackles. Strange how that's possible.

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2015, 03:39 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I said you have a strange obsession with defending guys that aren't good (an opinion, if you didn't know what that was).

I didn't go on a tirade telling you how "wrong" you are on multiple occasions.

Are you literally mentally ********? Or are you just trolling at this point?

So let me get this straight...

When you tell me I am wrong you are just giving an opinion, and that is okay.

But when I tell you that you are wrong I am stating it as a fact, and that is not okay.

And I would have to be a troll or mentally handicapped to not be able to understand the difference?



Perhaps you should just stick to name calling and insults.  At least we can all understand what you are trying to say when you do that.

But this argument about your statements being opinions and mine being facts is just complete gibberish.

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 03:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So let me get this straight...

When you tell me I am wrong you are just giving an opinion, and that is okay.

But when I tell you that you are wrong I am stating it as a fact, and that is not okay.

And I would have to be a troll or mentally handicapped to not be able to understand the difference?



Perhaps you should just stick to name calling and insults.  At least we can all understand what you are trying to say when you do that.

But this argument about your statements being opinions and mine being facts is just complete gibberish.

I didn't say you were wrong.

You would have to be a troll or mentally handicapped to not be able to see this. Yes, that is absolutely true.

Can you please get to the real point and explain how Nick Hayden racked up those tackles while being one of the consensus worst starting DTs in the game?

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2015, 03:52 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I didn't say you were wrong.

So when you said I defended players that were not good you were saying that I was right?

So you agree with me that Peko is a good FT?

I am really getting confused now, because I thought we were clearly disagreeing on if Peko was good or not, but now you are agreeing with me?

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 04:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So when you said I defended players that were not good you were saying that I was right?

So you agree with me that Peko is a good FT?

I am really getting confused now, because I thought we were clearly disagreeing on if Peko was good or not, but now you are agreeing with me?

I find there to be a difference between someone saying they disagree with my opinion and trying to tell me that my opinion is "wrong" as if your opinion is a fact. This isn't important though, but...

Can you please get to the real point and explain how Nick Hayden racked up those tackles while being one of the consensus worst starting DTs in the game?

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2015, 04:22 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Can you please get to the real point and explain how Nick Hayden racked up those tackles while being one of the consensus worst starting DTs in the game?

I don't care about Nick Hayden.  Peko had more tackles than him, and I don't know who comprises this "consensus" you are talking about.

How about you post something to back up your claim that Peko has not even been good enough to deserve being a starter the last two years.  That is who we were talking about. 

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 06:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't care about Nick Hayden.  Peko had more tackles than him, and I don't know who comprises this "consensus" you are talking about.

How about you post something to back up your claim that Peko has not even been good enough to deserve being a starter the last two years.  That is who we were talking about. 

I care about Nick Hayden because he's widely considered one of your worse starters in the NFL right now at his position, and he has almost as many tackles or more tackles than Peko depending on your source. You claim Peko has to be good because of tackles with nothing else to back it up, yet there are other mediocre or worse DTs that have approximately the same amount of tackles. Only someone who is afraid of their theory getting debunked would claim another DT with similar stats that's considered terrible by most has nothing to do with this conversation.

I'm not claiming I have very much proof of my opinion of Peko, I'm not wasting my time going back through the season and recording dozens of clips for you to see. It's just not worth it to me to "win" an argument on the boards. I'm merely debunking your theory that a DT must be good because he tackles people sometimes.

I asked you earlier and you never answered this....do you consider Peko better than most DTs in the league in general? Or do you consider Peko better than most starting DTs? There's obviously a big difference there.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-14-2015, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh the irony






BTW...... 13 inches

Yep, likely why your wife left you...

Also, likely a good thing that you switched your focus to academics, after realizing that a short, stubby built LB, with slow foot speed couldn't make the starting lineup at Carson Newman...

Anyway, you win the DT debate, in my book.  While Sims has better production in limited snaps, Peko has been able to play the majority of snaps throughout his career.

[*rfaulk34*]

Man! Just think how boring my early evening would have been had i not read the last couple pages of this thread.

[djs7685]

(07-14-2015, 08:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Anyway, you win the DT debate, in my book.  While Sims has better production in limited snaps, Peko has been able to play the majority of snaps throughout his career.

A lot of mediocre or worse players have been able to play a lot of snaps. I'm not sure how that makes someone a better player.

I'm not really trying to claim that Sims is the definite better player, I just don't think it's a slam dunk Peko > Sims as Fred believes.

Domata's best years are clearly behind him. As much as I'd love to see him be a big, dominant NT this year, I can't believe I'll see that after watching him for the past 2 seasons. Whether he gets a decent amount of tackles or not, I don't believe he's even an average DT at this point of his career.

Has nobody else noticed him getting pushed around on a much more frequent basis as of late? I can't be the only person that pays attention to that stuff while watching the games.

[SunsetBengal]

(07-14-2015, 08:46 PM)djs7685 Wrote: A lot of mediocre or worse players have been able to play a lot of snaps. I'm not sure how that makes someone a better player.

I'm not really trying to claim that Sims is the definite better player, I just don't think it's a slam dunk Peko > Sims as Fred believes.

Domata's best years are clearly behind him. As much as I'd love to see him be a big, dominant NT this year, I can't believe I'll see that after watching him for the past 2 seasons. Whether he gets a decent amount of tackles or not, I don't believe he's even an average DT at this point of his career.

Has nobody else noticed him getting pushed around on a much more frequent basis as of late? I can't be the only person that pays attention to that stuff while watching the games.

I'd prefer that we just leave that spot as vacant, so as to illustrate Marvin's inability to find a truly dominate DT...

[Shake n Blake]

(07-14-2015, 08:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, likely why your wife left you...

Also, likely a good thing that you switched your focus to academics, after realizing that a short, stubby built LB, with slow foot speed couldn't make the starting lineup at Carson Newman...

[Ben Richards]

(07-14-2015, 03:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: BTW...... 13 inches

Probably comes in handy as much as a pair of Jordan's on a quadriplegic.
 

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2015, 07:47 PM)djs7685 Wrote: You claim Peko has to be good because of tackles with nothing else to back it up

This is not true at all.  I also pointed out that opposing coaches have praised Peko and the fact that the Bengals have consistently had one of the better defenses in the league with Peko starting.

Hayden plays for a terrible defense, and no opposing coaches have called him great.

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2015, 07:47 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I asked you earlier and you never answered this....do you consider Peko better than most DTs in the league in general? Or do you consider Peko better than most starting DTs? There's obviously a big difference there.

I consider Peko to be better than some starting NTs and also better than almost all the back up NTs.  So that would mean i consider him better than most NTs in the league.