A thought about Ogbuehi

[Ravage]

So, I understand this year has been frustrating with Ogbuehi's play but there's one thing I think we should all take into account, the bowl game injury he had. The guy blew out his knee, missed most of his rookie year recovering, and this season is the first real year after the injury.

Do any of you remember what Geno was like the first season back from the ACL injury? Our own Defensive Coordinator said "He was just another guy out there", explosiveness and power were just gone. Cut to the following season, with more recuperation under his belt (and confidence in his knee), and Geno was back to being Geno. Was he "healthy" that first year back? Yes, he was. But he wasn't back to being the same yet. My point? OL and DL have similar body sizes, stresses, etc. on their bodies. If an All-Pro DT looks just meh a year after surgery, why do we expect a 2nd year OT to be perfectly fine?

Offensive and Defensive linemen have to put extreme stress on their knees on every single snap. Their knees are anchoring 300+ lbs human beings, being violently pushed or pulled by other 300+ lbs human beings, often with other overgrown men either intentionally diving at their knees (penalty or not), or falling and rolling up on their knees. The psychological concerns for these men coming off a knee injury are astronomical, I'd argue more so than for skill position players.

Now don't get me wrong, his ineffective play shouldn't have been repeatedly trotted out there for all of us to see (and AD to fear). However, assuming at this early stage that Ogbuehi is a bust, or won't be a solid OT is a bit pre-mature.

[bengals67]

whatever happens to this player in the future, I have no idea how the Bengals graded him as a first round pick?

Wouldn't it have been better to go for someone who can rush the passer, a truly impact WR, or a LB who can actually cover TEs.

Or maybe even a center???

I assume Alexander forced the issue which is further proof that he needs to be retired.

[Ravage]

Oh, I'm not saying it wasn't potentially a mistake to take him. I wasn't in any way enthused when they grabbed him in the draft. I agree there were likely bigger fish to fry that year in the first round. But I'm willing to give the guy a bit of time to literally get his legs underneath him again before I write him off as a bust.

[masonbengals fan]

His play has been one of the major issues of the season & he should have never been trotted out there each week if we were seriously trying to make the playoffs. But after investing a 1st round pick on him we can't write him off completely just yet. It's Marvin's fault for not pulling him from the starting unit way before he did. That coupled with Nugent's drop off were the straws that broke this camels back. If those moves were made earlier they might have stood a chance. Marvin's stubbornness cost them BIG TIME. I know hindsight is 20/20 but those were obvious moves that had to be made even to my amateur eyes.

[AussieBengal]

(12-30-2016, 10:10 AM)Ravage Wrote: So, I understand this year has been frustrating with Ogbuehi's play but there's one thing I think we should all take into account, the bowl game injury he had. The guy blew out his knee, missed most of his rookie year recovering, and this season is the first real year after the injury.

Do any of you remember what Geno was like the first season back from the ACL injury? Our own Defensive Coordinator said "He was just another guy out there", explosiveness and power were just gone. Cut to the following season, with more recuperation under his belt (and confidence in his knee), and Geno was back to being Geno. Was he "healthy" that first year back? Yes, he was. But he wasn't back to being the same yet. My point? OL and DL have similar body sizes, stresses, etc. on their bodies. If an All-Pro DT looks just meh a year after surgery, why do we expect a 2nd year OT to be perfectly fine?

Offensive and Defensive linemen have to put extreme stress on their knees on every single snap. Their knees are anchoring 300+ lbs human beings, being violently pushed or pulled by other 300+ lbs human beings, often with other overgrown men either intentionally diving at their knees (penalty or not), or falling and rolling up on their knees. The psychological concerns for these men coming off a knee injury are astronomical, I'd argue more so than for skill position players.

Now don't get me wrong, his ineffective play shouldn't have been repeatedly trotted out there for all of us to see (and AD to fear). However, assuming at this early stage that Ogbuehi is a bust, or won't be a solid OT is a bit pre-mature.

This to me is a very valid point, I watch a lot of other contact sports and have seen other athletes struggle for 12 months after an ACL injury has allowed them to return to the field. I've even seen the best players in a couple of sports have very average seasons following these injuries and they comment that it takes them 6-12 months to regain the confidence in that knee to allow them to compete at the level they are know for.

Maybe Ogbuehi will improve with more confidence in his knee, that being said I still do not think that will make enough difference to make him an NFL quality offensive lineman

[leonardfan40]

(12-30-2016, 10:17 AM)Ravage Wrote: Oh, I'm not saying it wasn't potentially a mistake to take him. I wasn't in any way enthused when they grabbed him in the draft. I agree there were likely bigger fish to fry that year in the first round. But I'm willing to give the guy a bit of time to literally get his legs underneath him again before I write him off as a bust.

I'm with you, I was very disappointed with his play this year but he certainly shouldn't be written off yet. Bring whit back and give this kid a full healthy offseason to figure this out. A new o line coach couldn't hurt either. 

Now I'm not saying I still expect him to become a stud but people are way to quick to write him off. Let's take a deep breath and get over this shitty season, then look at the big picture. Let's also remember it wasn't that long ago when just about every young player wasn't expected to do much until year 3 anyway. Guy has not been given a chance to improve yet and we are already calling him a bust

[McC]

Bottom line--next time PA gets on the table for a draftee, someone just please knock him off. At the very least, he should have zero input on draft choices.

[treee]

I agree the he is not a bust at all yet. However, I think going into next year the have to be more than willing to bench him. They were too insistent on trying to develop him in spite of his negative impact on the team and it severely damaged our season. Here's to hoping getting a full offseason in will do wonders for him. Hope he hits the weight room and hangs around with some of the best for some technique tips.

[Millhouse]

I think he is a bust for where they drafted him as they have gotten 2 years of no value & garbage value. At this point he needs to become a top 5 caliber tackle or he will keep having that bust label.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Good thread. And I agree, only time will tell.

[kalibengal]

in this "win now" league, it was arrogant move to use a 1st rounder on a guy who just blew out his knee, when we have other immediate needs to address....namely at WR, LB and Center...then they have the audacity to draft another tackle in round 2? Its all about Mike Brown the puppet master trying to save $$ on resigning his FAs...and not at all about winning. Per Led Zeppelin : "the Song Remains the Same" for this team.
Newsflash: Our last few drafts have stunk and I see teams like the raiders and cowboys killing it. THIS TEAM NEEDS AN ENEMA!!!

[spazz70]

(12-30-2016, 10:13 AM)bengals67 Wrote: whatever happens to this player in the future, I have no idea how the Bengals graded him as a first round pick?

Wouldn't it have been better to go for someone who can rush the passer, a truly impact WR, or a LB who can actually cover TEs.

Or maybe even a center???

I assume Alexander forced the issue which is further proof that he needs to be retired.

When they drafted him they were looking at the future.  A 1st round talent..even top 10 before his last year in college.  Whit only has so many years left.  I believe the thought was for him to be Whit's replacement and could still be.  I had no problem with the pick, I had a problem with picking Fisher with the next pick.  The problem is now that if he comes in next year and is a beast and Whit re-signs then what do you do?  To me he is obviously a LT not an RT, not enough bulk for that side.  So now you have a player going into his 3rd year with little experience and the next year a contract year at LT monies for his option.  Boy, this sounds a lot like DreK doesn't it?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-30-2016, 10:13 AM)bengals67 Wrote: whatever happens to this player in the future, I have no idea how the Bengals graded him as a first round pick?

This is an excellent point.  Why did the Bengals pick Cedric Ogbuehi in the first round?  Why were the NFL media impressed with this pick?  I remember the draft well and the commentators universally approved of the Bengals' first move.

The injury issue cannot be discounted.  It is what it is and possibly Cedric hasn't been playing at 100%. 

Another issue is Paul Alexander.  He hasn't been able to coach up anyone else into superstardom so why should anyone expect him to turn Cedric into a beast?  If another team would have drafted him, would the results be different?

[grampahol]

Every draft pick is a gamble no matter the position or where they're drafted. The same holds true for undrafted players. Just putting them on the field is a gamble or for that matter so it just paying them to be on the payroll. If memory serves me both Witt and Smith were headed to free agency so they had little choice. Suppose both had left for FA and they hadn't picked a single OT.. Hind sight is a wonderful thing. You can sit there all day long thinking woulda coulda shoulda and get exactly nothing for it. 
He might turn out to be a great OT or not, but you never have the luxury of going back in time. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2016, 10:10 AM)Ravage Wrote: So, I understand this year has been frustrating with Ogbuehi's play but there's one thing I think we should all take into account, the bowl game injury he had. The guy blew out his knee, missed most of his rookie year recovering, and this season is the first real year after the injury.

Do any of you remember what Geno was like the first season back from the ACL injury? Our own Defensive Coordinator said "He was just another guy out there", explosiveness and power were just gone. Cut to the following season, with more recuperation under his belt (and confidence in his knee), and Geno was back to being Geno. Was he "healthy" that first year back? Yes, he was. But he wasn't back to being the same yet. My point? OL and DL have similar body sizes, stresses, etc. on their bodies. If an All-Pro DT looks just meh a year after surgery, why do we expect a 2nd year OT to be perfectly fine?

Offensive and Defensive linemen have to put extreme stress on their knees on every single snap. Their knees are anchoring 300+ lbs human beings, being violently pushed or pulled by other 300+ lbs human beings, often with other overgrown men either intentionally diving at their knees (penalty or not), or falling and rolling up on their knees. The psychological concerns for these men coming off a knee injury are astronomical, I'd argue more so than for skill position players.

Now don't get me wrong, his ineffective play shouldn't have been repeatedly trotted out there for all of us to see (and AD to fear). However, assuming at this early stage that Ogbuehi is a bust, or won't be a solid OT is a bit pre-mature.

I get all that and it all makes sense but he just didn't seem like he even wanted to not be beat and even
Lapham called him out in this respect. That is the problem with Ogbuehi, the mentality to not be beat does
not seem to be there. Hope this changes and we see some fire out of him in the future.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2016, 10:13 AM)bengals67 Wrote: whatever happens to this player in the future, I have no idea how the Bengals graded him as a first round pick?

Wouldn't it have been better to go for someone who can rush the passer, a truly impact WR, or a LB who can actually cover TEs.

Or maybe even a center???

I assume Alexander forced the issue which is further proof that he needs to be retired.

You know it brother.

(12-30-2016, 11:06 AM)McC Wrote: Bottom line--next time PA gets on the table for a draftee, someone just please knock him off.  At the very least, he should have zero input on draft choices.

They just better get rid of the guy, this year was just terrible coaching on his part and i have never liked the guy.

Anthony Munoz please.

[GreenCornBengal]

I felt like DeCastro for Pitt was a bust for a while and then finally now started stepping it up. Maybe Ogaboogah will follow a similar timeline.

[Socal Bengals fan]

It's been 2 years after his surgery. Next year will be the it's his first year starting excuse at LT. Even a blind man can see this guy is a bust already. He doesn't have the base you need at tackle. He doesn't have the build for a nfl tackle. Or the fire . Bust. Make all the excuses you want. I've seen enough of this guy. He was a 5th year senior too. Older than most rookies. Ugh. Bust

[McC]

(12-30-2016, 02:29 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I felt like DeCastro for Pitt was a bust for a while and then finally now started stepping it up. Maybe Ogaboogah will follow a similar timeline.

DeCastro has stepped it up.  He's running neck and neck with his teammate Mitchell for dirtiest player in the game.

[fredtoast]

(12-30-2016, 12:10 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I think he is a bust for where they drafted him as they have gotten 2 years of no value & garbage value. At this point he needs to become a top 5 caliber tackle or he will keep having that bust label.

If he becomes a top 10 OT then he will not be a bust.

That type of logic is just a way for the haters to claim they were correct when they were actually wrong.

Andre smith was bust after his first two seasons, but no one called him a bust after he started playing well.