Since the Bengals last playoff win...

[THE PISTONS]

(04-26-2017, 12:46 PM)depthchart Wrote: Here is where I am coming from with limited time to research every last injury for each game cause I work.

2010 team goes 4 and 12.

2011 enter Dalton & Green - 9 and 7 and a Playoff - lose to the Texans 31 to 10 - nice improvement - Texans are better
 
2012 - 10 and 6 - Green ellis, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Dre, Iloka added to team - roster better - lose to Texans 19 to 13

2013 - 11 and 5 - Eifert, Bernard, Shawn Williams added - roster better - lose 27 to 10 to Chargers who we had just beat earlier in the season - Gio fumble and Zimmer's defense ran all over by Chargers

2014 - 10-5-1 - add Dennard, Jeremy Hill - roster pretty strong & experienced playing together - lose 26 to 10 to Colts

2015  - 12 and 4 - BEST ROSTER so far in Dalton era - Start 8 and 0 - lose Dalton - lose to Steelers 18 to 16 - Hill fumbles with game in hand (I don't blame on FO)   Pac Man & Burfict screw up (can blame on FO for having them especially having Pac Man.)

* Saw improvement year over year from 2010 through 2013.
* Roster was thin with little Depth to overcome injuries in 2011, better in 2012.
* Better showing in 2nd Texans loss which is improvement
*2013 we Had the better team than the Chargers and lost. Zimmer's defense ran all over and he is a Great coach
*2014 had Zero starting wide receivers and zero starting tight end available for Colts game as I remember. All normal receiver starters out with injury for Colts game including Gresham.
2015 - 8 and 0, no Dalton, fumble, melt down

** These are Observations and NOT excuses even though many will immediately Post that they are excuses. Go for it.
*** The Bengals FO is LESS COMPETENT than the Patriots FO and many others. I know that.
*** They have, however, finished in the Top 12,  5 of the last 6 years which does show some Competence
**    Out did 20 other teams to get into the Playoffs those 5 years - Top 12

**  They seem to be right on the Fence between becoming a better FO, doing more than just getting in the Playoffs only to lose and building up to Roster Peak seasons with teams that stay generally healthy & maybe make a run.
*   Would I rather have Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, OF COURSE, but we have what we have.
*** Many find HOPELESSNESS in the Playoff losses and assume the Bengals FO can NEVER EVER under any circumstances win a Playoff game and they may be right.
** I simply look at each year's team as a DIFFERENT group, with differing levels of Roster Depth and Health, playing different opponents at a different time and say MAYBE they can get over the Hump and win a Playoff game someday.
Consistent Top 12 five of last 6 seasons and other Good signs are there along with the Bad signs others point out like keeping Pac man
** Mike & Marvin are not going anywhere right now so we will see if they can IMPROVE themselves.
**  They have consistently been just a Top 12 team that can get into the Playoffs 5 of 6 years then lose.
** That in ON THEM to the Bad and ON THEM to the Good
** On one hand successful and on the other a Failure.
** I'm simply saying MAYBE they can break some Barriers and do more.
** People that say they can NEVER, EVER under any Circumstances win a Playoff game have ruled out the MAYBE
** I have not ruled out the MAYBE yet mainly due to the 2015 team's show of Promise

Just imagine on that 2013 team if they had another capable LB that they signed in free agency or a big DT.

On the 2015 team...just imagine if they had a Center?

The thing with football is...progression isn't linear. You don't win 8 games one year, then 10, then 12, then 14 and win a Super Bowl. Look Atlanta came out of nowhere.

Team progression isn't linear. Free agency and injuries make teams worse. Players age. Players decline. From that 2015 team...we lost Sanu, Jones, Nelson, Peko, Leon Hall, Whitworth, Zeitler, AJ Hawk, Bernard has a torn ACL...I could go on and on. That's 6 starters in that list. 6 out of 22 starters gone from the 2015 team.

Our team was absolutely worse last year from free agent losses. They weren't replaced with better guys in any case. The dropoff from Nelson to Williams was steep.

[CageTheBengal]

(04-26-2017, 12:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Just imagine on that 2013 team if they had another capable LB that they signed in free agency or a big DT.

On the 2015 team...just imagine if they had a Center?

The thing with football is...progression isn't linear. You don't win 8 games one year, then 10, then 12, then 14 and win a Super Bowl. Look Atlanta came out of nowhere.

Team progression isn't linear. Free agency and injuries make teams worse. Players age. Players decline. From that 2015 team...we lost Sanu, Jones, Nelson, Peko, Leon Hall, Whitworth, Zeitler, AJ Hawk, Bernard has a torn ACL...I could go on and on. That's 6 starters in that list. 6 out of 22 starters gone from the 2015 team.

Our team was absolutely worse last year from free agent losses. They weren't replaced with better guys in any case. The dropoff from Nelson to Williams was steep. 

Imagine if Dalton didn't injure his thumb trying to tackle a player. It isn't hard to do.

You may say I'm a dreamer. I'm not the only one.

(The center isn't to blame for 2015.)

[THE PISTONS]

(04-26-2017, 01:00 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Imagine if Dalton didn't injure his thumb trying to tackle a player. It isn't hard to do.

You may say I'm a dreamer. I'm not the only one.

(The center isn't to blame for 2015.)

I don't think Dalton helps us win that game. Plus the Steelers were without Bell.

We started out terrible to the Steelers...then took the lead late and Hill fumbled and then 2 personal fouls. Plus, we have up 167 yards rushing to guys on the Steelers who they signed off the street due to Bell being injured.

We found a way to lose. Just like we did in all the other playoff games. The Steelers own Marvin Lewis coached teams.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-26-2017, 12:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree and we have discussed this in other posts about FA. I agree build through the draft, but to close our door to signing a top tier FA every 3 or 4 years is a mistake in my opinion. An example is why not go after Mack (center from the browns) in 2016 like the Falcons did. They Falcons signed Mack and Sanu and almost won a Super Bowl.

I think that is the one area the FO needs to add to their off season to get us over the hump. Rookies normally just can't be saviours, they are a long shot to go from a good team to a Super Bowl team as they likely don't start day 1.

Several of us were clamoring for Mack a few years ago.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-26-2017, 12:46 PM)depthchart Wrote: Here is where I am coming from with limited time to research every last injury for each game cause I work.

2010 team goes 4 and 12.

2011 enter Dalton & Green - 9 and 7 and a Playoff - lose to the Texans 31 to 10 - nice improvement - Texans are better
 
2012 - 10 and 6 - Green ellis, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Dre, Iloka added to team - roster better - lose to Texans 19 to 13

2013 - 11 and 5 - Eifert, Bernard, Shawn Williams added - roster better - lose 27 to 10 to Chargers who we had just beat earlier in the season - Gio fumble and Zimmer's defense ran all over by Chargers

2014 - 10-5-1 - add Dennard, Jeremy Hill - roster pretty strong & experienced playing together - lose 26 to 10 to Colts

2015  - 12 and 4 - BEST ROSTER so far in Dalton era - Start 8 and 0 - lose Dalton - lose to Steelers 18 to 16 - Hill fumbles with game in hand (I don't blame on FO)   Pac Man & Burfict screw up (can blame on FO for having them especially having Pac Man.)

* Saw improvement year over year from 2010 through 2013.
* Roster was thin with little Depth to overcome injuries in 2011, better in 2012.
* Better showing in 2nd Texans loss which is improvement
*2013 we Had the better team than the Chargers and lost. Zimmer's defense ran all over and he is a Great coach
*2014 had Zero starting wide receivers and zero starting tight end available for Colts game as I remember. All normal receiver starters out with injury for Colts game including Gresham.
2015 - 8 and 0, no Dalton, fumble, melt down

** These are Observations and NOT excuses even though many will immediately Post that they are excuses. Go for it.
*** The Bengals FO is LESS COMPETENT than the Patriots FO and many others. I know that.
*** They have, however, finished in the Top 12,  5 of the last 6 years which does show some Competence
**    Out did 20 other teams to get into the Playoffs those 5 years - Top 12

**  They seem to be right on the Fence between becoming a better FO, doing more than just getting in the Playoffs only to lose and building up to Roster Peak seasons with teams that stay generally healthy & maybe make a run.
*   Would I rather have Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, OF COURSE, but we have what we have.
*** Many find HOPELESSNESS in the Playoff losses and assume the Bengals FO can NEVER EVER under any circumstances win a Playoff game and they may be right.
** I simply look at each year's team as a DIFFERENT group, with differing levels of Roster Depth and Health, playing different opponents at a different time and say MAYBE they can get over the Hump and win a Playoff game someday. Then maybe do more.
Consistent Top 12 five of last 6 seasons and other Good signs are there along with the Bad signs others point out like keeping Pac man
** Mike & Marvin are not going anywhere right now so we will see if they can IMPROVE themselves.
**  They have consistently been just a Top 12 team that can get into the Playoffs 5 of 6 years then lose.
** That is ON THEM to the Bad and ON THEM to the Good
** On one hand successful and on the other a Failure.
** I'm simply saying MAYBE they can break some Barriers and do more.
** People that say they can NEVER, EVER under any Circumstances win a Playoff game have ruled out the MAYBE
** I have not ruled out the MAYBE yet mainly due to the 2015 team's show of Promise

Then they better start being serious players in FA, and quick, if they're gonna break down any barriers.  The Minter signing was a good signing, but they could have addressed weak positions in 2013 (C with Kevin Mack, LB with Karlos Dansby, for starters, coulda had Darryl Williams), and chose not to.  Now, those good players we drafted are gone, those holes are still there, and more have been added due to our FAs departing.  Not very good foresight by the FO, IMO.....or maybe they saw this need and were overruled by Ebenezer....which is entirely possible.  Gotta have those comp picks and rollover money!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-26-2017, 12:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That's my big point too and I get labeled as someone who bashes management.

I look at it like this: Our management improved a lot for the 90's. We went from horrible to competitive when Marvin got here. We are now about the 12th to 14th best team in the NFL every year instead of one of the 5-6 worst as we were in the 90's.

That said...the jump from 12th to 14th best to best is just as steep as that jump we made from the 90's losing.

It takes signing that Tier 2 free agent to stabilize a unit. Pulling that extra special guy out of the draft that went to a small school that nobody knew. Having that coach who changed the culture to one of winning, etc.

Yup.....instead of tire kickin' their should have been some pencil pushin'.....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-26-2017, 01:00 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: Imagine if Dalton didn't injure his thumb trying to tackle a player. It isn't hard to do.

You may say I'm a dreamer. I'm not the only one.

(The center isn't to blame for 2015.)

Not totally, but he was still pretty shitty.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it his man who blew up the play Dalton got hurt on?

[THE PISTONS]

(04-26-2017, 01:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: Then they better start being serious players in FA, and quick, if they're gonna break down any barriers.  The Minter signing was a good signing, but they could have addressed weak positions in 2013 (C with Kevin Mack, LB with Karlos Dansby, for starters, coulda had Darryl Williams), and chose not to.  Now, those good players we drafted are gone, those holes are still there, and more have been added due to our FAs departing.  Not very good foresight by the FO, IMO.....or maybe they saw this need and were overruled by Ebenezer....which is entirely possible.  Gotta have those comp picks and rollover money!

Yep. Free agency is risky. Comp picks are sure things!

2003, 7th, DE Elton Patterson

2004, 3rd, LB Landon Johnson
2007, 7th, S Chinedum Ndukwe
2008, 3rd, WR Andre Caldwell
2008, 6th, TE Matt Sherry
2008, 7th, DE Angelo Craig
2008, 7th, WR Mario Urrutia
2009, 3rd, TE Chase Coffman
2009, 6th, RB Bernard Scott
2009, 7th, DE Clinton McDonald
2009, 7th, WR Freddie Brown
2010, 3rd, CB Brandon Ghee
2010, 4th, LB Roddrick Muckleroy
2011, 7th, RB Jay Finley
2013, 7th, OT Reid Fragel
2013, 7th, C TJ Johnson
2014, 6th, LB Marquis Flowers
2014, 7th, CB Lavelle Westbrooks
2015, 3rd, LB Paul Dawson
2014, 4th, DE Marcus Hardison

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-26-2017, 01:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I don't think Dalton helps us win that game. Plus the Steelers were without Bell.

We started out terrible to the Steelers...then took the lead late and Hill fumbled and then 2 personal fouls. Plus, we have up 167 yards rushing to guys on the Steelers who they signed off the street due to Bell being injured.

We found a way to lose. Just like we did in all the other playoff games. The Steelers own Marvin Lewis coached teams.

In my estimation, the hit on Bernard, and the subsequent no-call, fired the team up, and they came back pissed off.  Something Mediocre Marv and His Merry Band of Tenured Bums can't seem to accomplish in the playoffs.  The team always looks flat, uninspired, and flat out unprepared.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-26-2017, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. Free agency is risky. Comp picks are sure things!

2003, 7th, DE Elton Patterson

2004, 3rd, LB Landon Johnson
2007, 7th, S Chinedum Ndukwe
2008, 3rd, WR Andre Caldwell
2008, 6th, TE Matt Sherry
2008, 7th, DE Angelo Craig
2008, 7th, WR Mario Urrutia
2009, 3rd, TE Chase Coffman
2009, 6th, RB Bernard Scott
2009, 7th, DE Clinton McDonald
2009, 7th, WR Freddie Brown
2010, 3rd, CB Brandon Ghee
2010, 4th, LB Roddrick Muckleroy
2011, 7th, RB Jay Finley
2013, 7th, OT Reid Fragel
2013, 7th, C TJ Johnson
2014, 6th, LB Marquis Flowers
2014, 7th, CB Lavelle Westbrooks
2015, 3rd, LB Paul Dawson
2014, 4th, DE Marcus Hardison

A veritable who's who of message board Training Camp All Stars!!!!



To be fair, Bubba Caldwell was a decent player here, and went on to be coached up in Denver to be a reliable target.

[depthchart]

(04-26-2017, 12:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Just imagine on that 2013 team if they had another capable LB that they signed in free agency or a big DT.

On the 2015 team...just imagine if they had a Center?

The thing with football is...progression isn't linear. You don't win 8 games one year, then 10, then 12, then 14 and win a Super Bowl. Look Atlanta came out of nowhere.

Team progression isn't linear. Free agency and injuries make teams worse. Players age. Players decline. From that 2015 team...we lost Sanu, Jones, Nelson, Peko, Leon Hall, Whitworth, Zeitler, AJ Hawk, Bernard has a torn ACL...I could go on and on. That's 6 starters in that list. 6 out of 22 starters gone from the 2015 team.

Our team was absolutely worse last year from free agent losses. They weren't replaced with better guys in any case. The dropoff from Nelson to Williams was steep.

As much as we have went at it recently, I am still on board with a lot of what you say.

The Mike and Marvin Front Office is Cementing their legacy and as you say there are plenty of Playoff losses and ZERO Playoff wins. They have had a Ceiling on their Competence level.

As you also mention, they have lost some solid talent since 2015.
It is up to them to Improve their Reputation and they may not be able to.
Ultimately it is on them Forever if they Fail.

[BengalD]

Well, I'll put it to you this way. Since the last playoff win my wife and I had a daughter, she's graduated from college and has two kids of her own (our grandkids). So what are the chances I have great grandkids before another playoff win? (hate to say it but I'm thinking greater than 50%) Thank God for the Buckeyes!

[CageTheBengal]

(04-26-2017, 01:26 PM)Wyche Wrote: Not totally, but he was still pretty shitty.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it his man who blew up the play Dalton got hurt on?

If we want to keep splitting hairs until we have an excuse to keep bashing the Center then sure.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-26-2017, 12:46 PM)depthchart Wrote: Here is where I am coming from with limited time to research every last injury for each game cause I work.

2010 team goes 4 and 12.

2011 enter Dalton & Green - 9 and 7 and a Playoff - lose to the Texans 31 to 10 - nice improvement - Texans are better
 
2012 - 10 and 6 - Green ellis, Marvin Jones, Sanu, Dre, Iloka added to team - roster better - lose to Texans 19 to 13

2013 - 11 and 5 - Eifert, Bernard, Shawn Williams added - roster better - lose 27 to 10 to Chargers who we had just beat earlier in the season - Gio fumble and Zimmer's defense ran all over by Chargers

2014 - 10-5-1 - add Dennard, Jeremy Hill - roster pretty strong & experienced playing together - lose 26 to 10 to Colts

2015  - 12 and 4 - BEST ROSTER so far in Dalton era - Start 8 and 0 - lose Dalton - lose to Steelers 18 to 16 - Hill fumbles with game in hand (I don't blame on FO)   Pac Man & Burfict screw up (can blame on FO for having them especially having Pac Man.)

* Saw improvement year over year from 2010 through 2013.
* Roster was thin with little Depth to overcome injuries in 2011, better in 2012.
* Better showing in 2nd Texans loss which is improvement
*2013 we Had the better team than the Chargers and lost. Zimmer's defense ran all over and he is a Great coach
*2014 had Zero starting wide receivers and zero starting tight end available for Colts game as I remember. All normal receiver starters out with injury for Colts game including Gresham.
2015 - 8 and 0, no Dalton, fumble, melt down

** These are Observations and NOT excuses even though many will immediately Post that they are excuses. Go for it.
*** The Bengals FO is LESS COMPETENT than the Patriots FO and many others. I know that.
*** They have, however, finished in the Top 12,  5 of the last 6 years which does show some Competence
**    Out did 20 other teams to get into the Playoffs those 5 years - Top 12

**  They seem to be right on the Fence between becoming a better FO, doing more than just getting in the Playoffs only to lose and building up to Roster Peak seasons with teams that stay generally healthy & maybe make a run.
*   Would I rather have Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick, OF COURSE, but we have what we have.
*** Many find HOPELESSNESS in the Playoff losses and assume the Bengals FO can NEVER EVER under any circumstances win a Playoff game and they may be right.
** I simply look at each year's team as a DIFFERENT group, with differing levels of Roster Depth and Health, playing different opponents at a different time and say MAYBE they can get over the Hump and win a Playoff game someday.
Consistent Top 12 five of last 6 seasons and other Good signs are there along with the Bad signs others point out like keeping Pac man
** Mike & Marvin are not going anywhere right now so we will see if they can IMPROVE themselves.
**  They have consistently been just a Top 12 team that can get into the Playoffs 5 of 6 years then lose.
** That is ON THEM to the Bad and ON THEM to the Good
** On one hand successful and on the other a Failure.
** I'm simply saying MAYBE they can break some Barriers and do more.
** People that say they can NEVER, EVER under any Circumstances win a Playoff game have ruled out the MAYBE
** I have not ruled out the MAYBE yet mainly due to the 2015 team's show of Promise

In Marv's 7 playoff games...

- We've never seen our offense post more than 17 points 
- Our best passer rating by any of the 4 QBs was 68.3, which is awful
- We've allowed 375.4 yards per game, which would've been tied for 27th in total defense with the Saints last year
- Opposing passers have a 102.4 rating overall which would've ranked 31st in the league last year
- We've allowed 162.6 yards rushing per game, which would've ranked 31st in the league last year
- We've been outscored 96 to 29 in the 2nd half.
- We've allowed 25.1 points per game, which would've been tied for 26th in the league last year
- We've scored an average of 12.9 points per game, which would've been dead last in the league last year, more than a full point behind the Rams

You use injuries as excuses for the Steelers and Colts games, but ignore the fact that the Colts were down to Dan Herron and Zurlon Tipton at RB (those 2 burned us for 187 yards combined) and the Steelers were down also down to 3rd and 4th string RBs (Todman and Toussaint, who burned us for 183 yards) and were also without Ben for a stretch. 

We aren't the only team dealing with injuries come playoff time, and considering how horribly the team has performed, I doubt having more players healthy would've made much difference. 

[THE PISTONS]

(04-26-2017, 01:32 PM)depthchart Wrote: As much as we have went at it recently, I am still on board with a lot of what you say.

The Mike and Marvin Front Office is Cementing their legacy and as you say there are plenty of Playoff losses and ZERO Playoff wins. They have had a Ceiling on their Competence level.

As you also mention, they have lost some solid talent since 2015.
It is up to them to Improve their Reputation and they may not be able to.
Ultimately it is on them Forever if they Fail.

During the 90's and even 2000's I used to be on message boards talking about how the Bengals just had bad luck with draft picks, etc. I'd make every excuse in the book.

Then at some point I saw it clearly as a management and organizational culture issue.

I see teams like the Steelers do what it takes to win. I see teams get creative with the cap to bring in players. I see teams waive underperforming players. I see teams get rid of coaches for lack of playoff success.

The Bengals had a solid roster for about 5 years...and they'd go into each season with excess cap space to be used at some future date. Rosters don't always get better. Guys get injured. Guys leave in free agency.

The time to spend that cap space on that 1 or 2 proven starters was when we had a really good roster.

I agree that a team can't be built primarily in free agency. You have to draft well...but I also believe that you have to address areas of need in free agency.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-26-2017, 01:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In Marv's 7 playoff games...

- We've never seen our offense post more than 17 points 
- Our best passer rating by any of the 4 QBs was 68.3, which is awful
- We've allowed 375.4 yards per game, which would've been tied for 27th in total defense with the Saints last year
- Opposing passers have a 102.4 rating overall which would've ranked 31st in the league last year
- We've allowed 162.6 yards rushing per game, which would've ranked 31st in the league last year
- We've been outscored 96 to 29 in the 2nd half.
- We've allowed 25.1 points per game, which would've been tied for 26th in the league last year
- We've scored an average of 12.9 points per game, which would've been dead last in the league last year, more than a full point behind the Rams

You use injuries as excuses for the Steelers and Colts games, but ignore the fact that the Colts were down to Dan Herron and Zurlon Tipton at RB (those 2 burned us for 187 yards combined) and the Steelers were down also down to 3rd and 4th string RBs (Todman and Toussaint, who burned us for 183 yards) and were also without Ben for a stretch. 

We aren't the only team dealing with injuries come playoff time, and considering how horribly the team has performed, I doubt having more players healthy would've made much difference. 

Great work! Those numbers show my main point that the Bengals meltdown in playoff games. We could go into a playoff team with a Top 5 defense...and not play like one in the playoffs.

We find a way to lose...even units like the defense that have no injuries.

Bottom line: In the playoffs we can't score and we can't stop the other team from moving the ball.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-26-2017, 01:36 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: If we want to keep splitting hairs until we have an excuse to keep bashing the Center then sure.

Why is it splitting hairs? The contention is that signing Alex Mack would have helped the Bengals who everyone agrees had a loaded roster in 2015 minus the Center position win a playoff game.

Then people point to Dalton being injured as why we didn't win.

Then it gets pointed out that he got injured on a play in which the Center let direct pressure get to him on.

Seems like logical cause and effect.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-26-2017, 01:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: Then they better start being serious players in FA, and quick, if they're gonna break down any barriers.  The Minter signing was a good signing, but they could have addressed weak positions in 2013 (C with Kevin Mack, LB with Karlos Dansby, for starters, coulda had Darryl Williams), and chose not to.  Now, those good players we drafted are gone, those holes are still there, and more have been added due to our FAs departing.  Not very good foresight by the FO, IMO.....or maybe they saw this need and were overruled by Ebenezer....which is entirely possible.  Gotta have those comp picks and rollover money!

Crazy stat: We only have 18 players on our current roster under contract for 2019.

Atkins, Dunlap, MJ, Jones, Lafell, Fisher, Shaw, Burfict, Eifert, Huber, Minter, Smith, Hill are all free agents over the next 2 years.

The only guys I consider core guys locked up for more than 2 years are Kirkpatrick, Dalton, Iloka, Green (3 years), and Boling.

Now you have to think we'll re-sign a lot of these guys...but we've seen that if a team offers a guy top money...we let them walk.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-26-2017, 01:36 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: If we want to keep splitting hairs until we have an excuse to keep bashing the Center then sure.

(04-26-2017, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why is it splitting hairs? The contention is that signing Alex Mack would have helped the Bengals who everyone agrees had a loaded roster in 2015 minus the Center position win a playoff game.

Then people point to Dalton being injured as why we didn't win.

Then it gets pointed out that he got injured on a play in which the Center let direct pressure get to him on.

Seems like logical cause and effect.

Yup....and Cage, he's just not very good.  He's rated among the league's worst.  As Pistons pointed out, Alex Mack was our answer to our woes a C, and the FO took a pass.  Pressure at the point of attack is quite detrimental to your offense.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-26-2017, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Why is it splitting hairs? The contention is that signing Alex Mack would have helped the Bengals who everyone agrees had a loaded roster in 2015 minus the Center position win a playoff game.

Then people point to Dalton being injured as why we didn't win.

Then it gets pointed out that he got injured on a play in which the Center let direct pressure get to him on.

Seems like logical cause and effect.

He's avoiding being critical of anything. No whining allowed.