Gil Brandt ranks the "Super Bowl-less" teams

[Shake n Blake]

(07-10-2015, 02:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if you would change rosters and coaches why wouldnt you just root for the cardinals.

Because I'm a Bengals fan? Is this a serious question? 

Tbh, I don't care who wears the uniforms or who patrols the sidelines. I just want the men in stripes to play well and for a championship to come to the city of Cincinnati.

[GodFather]

(07-10-2015, 11:40 PM)J24 Wrote: Carson left a lot of money on the table when he left I will grant you that but he certainly didn't make himself a hero by the way he left this team like you make him out to be.

It just tells me how bad of a situation that he felt he was in to walk away from that kind of cash, and possibly never play another snap of professional football again. You have to realize this is something he's worked his whole life to do. I bet there were things going on behind the scenes that even the biggest homer of homers would say, "This is a bad situation even I didn't imagine."

[Shake n Blake]

(07-10-2015, 07:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Boomer left the Bengals, played for a couple of other teams, and then left the Cardinals to return to the
Bengals.

Carson left the Bengals, played for a couple of other teams, and then.  .  .

The only way that would happen is if Dalton played like crap this year and the Cards released Palmer for some reason. Then there would have to be some major fence mending. Carson's split was much more public than Boomer's.

I'd be okay with CP coming back in this scenario, actually. As long as it was only for a couple seasons while we found a replacement. I've never hated Carson at all. Just feel he's overrated a bit around these parts.

[*Awful Llama*]

(07-10-2015, 07:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Boomer left the Bengals, played for a couple of other teams, and then left the Cardinals to return to the
Bengals.

Carson left the Bengals, played for a couple of other teams, and then.  .  .

[BengalChris]

(07-10-2015, 12:40 AM)EatonFan Wrote: I guess this begs the question would we rather have Arizona's roster right now?  Or our own? (Including coaches)

Our own! While there are a few things about the Bengals I don't like, I'm not into throwing out the baby with the bath water. What I like about our roster far out weighs what I don't like, which is good sign.

[J24]

(07-10-2015, 11:54 PM)GodFather Wrote: It just tells me how bad of a situation that he felt he was in to walk away from that kind of cash, and possibly never play another snap of professional football again. You have to realize this is something he's worked his whole life to do. I bet there were things going on behind the scenes that even the biggest homer of homers would say, "This is a bad situation even I didn't imagine."

He had a loaded defense when he left and  we just drafted AJ Green. Now how is that terrible situation? Also why didn't he take any blame for want went on here? I mean he did throw what 20 INTS  and 4 of them were returned for touchdowns that season.

[Murdock2420]

(07-10-2015, 07:29 PM)Bryan Wrote: Palmer acted out what most Bengals fans feel, yet they hate him for it. Okay.

This 100%!

I love how people who are hating Palmer are the same people who complain about Mike Brown and want Marvin gone.

Guess what, Carson shared your opinion. He wanted to win, he wanted the franchise to be run right. He had the option to tell Mike Brown to F*ck off, and stand to it. 

If you want to be pissed at Carson, fine do that, but don't talk bad about Mike Brown or Marvin Lewis at all. You have to pick a side in this fight. Mike Brown and Marvin's side, or Palmer's side.

[EatonFan]

(07-11-2015, 04:47 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This 100%!

I love how people who are hating Palmer are the same people who complain about Mike Brown and want Marvin gone.

Guess what, Carson shared your opinion. He wanted to win, he wanted the franchise to be run right. He had the option to tell Mike Brown to F*ck off, and stand to it. 

If you want to be pissed at Carson, fine do that, but don't talk bad about Mike Brown or Marvin Lewis at all. You have to pick a side in this fight. Mike Brown and Marvin's side, or Palmer's side.

While I'm not thrilled with Marvin Lewis (I really just knock him on getting the team ready for big games), he has turned this franchise around.  Mike Brown is Mike Brown.  He isn't the football guru that his dad was.  He's a business man and a darn good one.  Do people like that?  Some do.  Some don't.  I can deal with both and can support both.

Carson threw his team under the bus.  He quit like a whiney 5 year old.  I can't support that.  Play out your contract and leave.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-11-2015, 07:17 AM)EatonFan Wrote: While I'm not thrilled with Marvin Lewis (I really just knock him on getting the team ready for big games), he has turned this franchise around.  Mike Brown is Mike Brown.  He isn't the football guru that his dad was.  He's a business man and a darn good one.  Do people like that?  Some do.  Some don't.  I can deal with both and can support both.

Carson threw his team under the bus.  He quit like a whiney 5 year old.  I can't support that.  Play out your contract and leave.  

Agreed.  I look at the state of the franchises that Kurt Warner (forever my favorite NFL QB) took over...ownership, history, talent, etc.  Kurt Warner took the opportunity he had to make the team he was playing for better.  He took the two worst NFL franchises to Super Bowls and won one of them. 

THAT is a man.  A leader.  Palmer is neither of those things. 

[GodFather]

(07-11-2015, 02:54 AM)J24 Wrote: He had a loaded defense when he left and  we just drafted AJ Green. Now how is that terrible situation? Also why didn't he take any blame for want went on here? I mean he did throw what 20 INTS  and 4 of them were returned for touchdowns that season.

Loaded huh? They stunk it up the year before he left at 4-12. If he felt they were loaded and they still went 4-12 then how would that make you feel as a player? Also your wrong, Carson took the blame himself too much in my opinion. Even Marvin Lewis said in an interview one mistake was not having Carson's back enough and letting him take the blame for things wasn't his fault.

20 INT's for Carson is his fault for the entire team but 20 INT's for Dalton is a learning curve right?   :snark:

[*Nately120*]

(07-10-2015, 11:40 PM)J24 Wrote: Carson left a lot of money on the table when he left I will grant you that but he certainly didn't make himself a hero by the way he left this team like you make him out to be.

I never said Carson was a hero, I'm just saying he wanted out of a job and got the same job with a different organization.  Carson isn't a hero for doing what he did, if anything I'm amazed at how much emotion people interject into a rather mundane situation.  Maybe he if played for the Browns or the Cowboys and said "I want out" we'd all think he was awesome, but he wanted to leave the team we unconditionally love.  I get it the bad feelings, but what is interesting is how people want to bend things to make it into some sort of insult or that he "quit" when he just wanted to work somewhere else.

[*Nately120*]

(07-11-2015, 09:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Agreed.  I look at the state of the franchises that Kurt Warner (forever my favorite NFL QB) took over...ownership, history, talent, etc.  Kurt Warner took the opportunity he had to make the team he was playing for better.  He took the two worst NFL franchises to Super Bowls and won one of them. 

THAT is a man.  A leader.  Palmer is neither of those things. 

I'm not saying Palmer is up to Warner standards, but both of them were acquired by AZ for next to nothing and took over for under-performing younger QBs (Lienart and Kolb).  The Cardinals were 5-11 the year before each showed up and they helped turn things around (Palmer helped turned the Cardinals around faster, but Bruce Arains deserves a lot of credit).

Also, the whole argument of Palmer not being a leader is pretty much Bengals fans versus Cardinals players, so consider the source on that one.  Anyways, if you wanted to distance Warner from Palmer pointing out their Cardinals tenures doesn't seem like the way to do it. Again, you don't have to like Palmer, but your arguments against him are emotionally driven and biased yet presented as factual.

[fredtoast]

I don't know exactly all the reasons that Carson was willing to give up so much money to get out of here, but when I hear a man say he will give up everything in order to get a divorce from a woman who has already had four or five previous husbands also want to divorce her it is pretty easy for me to figure out where to place the blame.

[J24]

(07-11-2015, 10:23 AM)GodFather Wrote: Loaded huh? They stunk it up the year before he left at 4-12. If he felt they were loaded and they still went 4-12 then how would that make you feel as a player? Also your wrong, Carson took the blame himself too much in my opinion. Even Marvin Lewis said in an interview one mistake was not having Carson's back enough and letting him take the blame for things wasn't his fault.

20 INT's for Carson is his fault for the entire team but 20 INT's for Dalton is a learning curve right?   :snark:

Anyone with a brain could tell Geno, Carlos, and MJ were going to special. Also did you forget that the defense after he left had three straight top ten performances. I think any player would say we have  good young pieces and a couple more improvements then this team could be special. Instead of walking away from the team like a big douche.  When did Carson take the blame for anything? Oh and the year Andy threw 20 interceptions he also threw for over 4,000 yards and was third in touchdowns with 33. So yeah there is a major difference when comparing the two seasons.

[wolfkaosaun]

Why do people want Carson back?

Dude has a decent beginning to his season last year, but he's only had above an 84 QB rating 2 times since 2007 (3 if you want to include him playing in 6 games).
Dalton has had 2 seasons where he had above a 87 QB rating already in 4 years.

Palmer's first 6 games of 2014: 1,626 yards, 62.9% completion percentage. 11 touchdowns and 3 interceptions. 95.6 Qb rating

Dalton's first 6 games of 2014: 1,375 yards, 64% completion percentage. 6 touchdowns and 3 interceptions. 89.7 QB rating

While Palmer had a slightly better beginning, he's injury-prone (played full 16 game season 3 times in 7 years) and is still a turnover machine (76 interceptions in last 64 games, including 16 fumbles). That's 15 more turnovers than Dalton has committed.

Dalton has 66 interceptions and 11 fumbles in his 64 games.

Dalton has 99 passing touchdowns, 11 rushing touchdowns, and 1 receiving touchdown in his 64 games. Palmer has 96 passing touchdowns and 2 rushing touchdowns.

Palmer isn't what he once was. Those are just memories now.

[Lawless_1]

I like our roster wayyyyy better.


But I'd take their coaches in a heartbeat.

[*Nately120*]

(07-11-2015, 05:22 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Why do people want Carson back?  

I think it has to do more with the prospect that sticking with Palmer in 2011 would have meant getting rid of Marvin Lewis and possibly putting Zimmer in as the HC.

[Aquapod770]

(07-11-2015, 02:54 AM)J24 Wrote: He had a loaded defense when he left and  we just drafted AJ Green. Now how is that terrible situation? Also why didn't he take any blame for want went on here? I mean he did throw what 20 INTS  and 4 of them were returned for touchdowns that season.

This is silly. Carson always took the blame. Always.

[wolfkaosaun]

(07-12-2015, 06:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think it has to do more with the prospect that sticking with Palmer in 2011 would have meant getting rid of Marvin Lewis and possibly putting Zimmer in as the HC.

But we probably would have been clamoring for a rookie QB since then. And honestly, what QB would you have taken that we could have gotten since then?

[fredtoast]

(07-11-2015, 05:22 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Palmer isn't what he once was. Those are just memories now.

If he can stay healthy he still has one of the best arms in the league.  I watched him play some last year and he was still making sick throws.