Can we afford not to ?

[Okeana]

Sometimes stars align and you are left with the question " can we afford not to ? " This is exactly the question I ask myself every time I sit down to mock up a draft and I see names like Malik Hooker, Derek Barnett, and Reuben Foster. There is only one problem and that is because every time I reach 9 Leonard Fournette is there. Its very rare that you come along a generational talent that has scouts calling him the Lebron James of the draft.

A lot of people compare him to Adrian Peterson because of running style, but I think this is an unfair comparison. Fournette is a bigger stronger RB and would be more comparable in size to Jim Brown and Earl Campbell. Regardless when you get compared to guys like Bo Jackson and AP we must take note that this guy could be a generational running back that could be a face of the franchise. Grab him, pat elflein at center, and continue to develop our rookie tackles maybe pick andre smith back up on the cheap for next season. This would reopen the passing game and let gio/rex work as change of pace backs.

I'm a defense guy and never thought I would see myself wanting to grab a running back in top 10 ever again, but I have a gut feeling that should not pass on this opportunity given the chance.

[Hammerstripes]

I have ZERO problem with taking Fournette or Dalvin Cook (who looks to me a lot like the 2nd coming of Chris Johnson)

The only problem is that you can't do that without fixing the O-line. If you want to have a ground based offense, then you need a C that can actually block.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2017, 04:56 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I have ZERO problem with taking Fournette or Dalvin Cook (who looks to me a lot like the 2nd coming of Chris Johnson)

The only problem is that you can't do that without fixing the O-line.  If you want to have a ground based offense, then you need a C that can actually block.

FSU's oline has been suspect for a couple of years now....Cook had no problems with it.  I'd rather have him over Fournette.  Jeremy Hill looked good at LSU too.  

[Hammerstripes]

(01-05-2017, 04:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: FSU's oline has been suspect for a couple of years now....Cook had no problems with it.  I'd rather have him over Fournette.  Jeremy Hill looked good at LSU too.  

Huge difference between college and the pros.  If we don't sign Zeitler back, Cook/Fournette will be running into the back of the o-lines.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2017, 05:01 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Huge difference between college and the pros.  If we don't sign Zeitler back, Cook/Fournette will be running into the back of the o-lines.

Yes, obviously there is.  That said, Cook is the shiftier back, and that bodes well for porous o lines versus the big bruiser.  Once the kid hits the second level, it's lights out.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-05-2017, 05:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yes, obviously there is.  That said, Cook is the shiftier back, and that bodes well for porous o lines versus the big bruiser.  Once the kid hits the second level, it's lights out.

Completely agree - although they say that Fournette's speed is off the charts as well.  I'll be interested to see how they both run at the combine.

I'd also be interested to see how Fournette would run in an offense where the other team doesn't know that they are running every down.  It seems like whenever teams played LSU, there was ZERO threat of a passing game.  He could be a destroyer in our offense.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2017, 05:06 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Completely agree - although they say that Fournette's speed is off the charts as well.  I'll be interested to see how they both run at the combine.

I'd also be interested to see how Fournette would run in an offense where the other team doesn't know that they are running every down.  It seems like whenever teams played LSU, there was ZERO threat of a passing game.  He could be a destroyer in our offense.

Could be.....I'll also be interested in their speeds at the combine.  One other thing I really like about Cook is his pass catching ability.  If we were to shed Hill, and have a backfield of Rex/Gio/Dalvin, no defense would be able to play tendencies on run/pass, because all three are legit threats at both.  I'm not sure about Leonard on that aspect.....and have not really paid attention to blitz pick up by either.  Bottom line, I'd take either of them over Jeremy Hill at this point.

[Jpoore]

I'll pass not wasting my top pick on a guy with severe ankle issues

[blt4584]

(01-05-2017, 05:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: Could be.....I'll also be interested in their speeds at the combine.  One other thing I really like about Cook is his pass catching ability.  If we were to shed Hill, and have a backfield of Rex/Gio/Dalvin, no defense would be able to play tendencies on run/pass, because all three are legit threats at both.  I'm not sure about Leonard on that aspect.....and have not really paid attention to blitz pick up by either.  Bottom line, I'd take either of them over Jeremy Hill at this point.

Cook is probably the more natural receiver, but Fournette is also more than capable. I wish Fournette had a coach that wasn't stuck in the 1950s when it came to playcalling. I would be happy with either assuming LF's ankle checks out.

I think this is kind of like the Suh/McCoy and Green/Jones debates where both of them are going to end up being really good.

[SunsetBengal]

I have a problem of calling Fournette the "LeBron James" of the draft. I see him more as a product of their system, as evidenced in his backup having great numbers in his absence. The fact that he has ankle issues now, is going to lead to knee injuries later. Guys with ankle problems tend to rely on heavy tape and support for the ankle, which simply transfers the force to the next joint up, the knee.

Unless he can run consistent 4.4s, I wouldn't spend the #9 pick on him. If RB is what the Bengals want at #9, then I see Dalvin Cook as more of sure bet to be a long term productive back in the NFL. Then again, I'm also a guy that would take Malik Hooker over Barnett, in favor of Williams in the 2nd round.

[blt4584]

(01-05-2017, 06:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have a problem of calling Fournette the "LeBron James" of the draft.  I see him more as a product of their system, as evidenced in his backup having great numbers in his absence.  The fact that he has ankle issues now, is going to lead to knee injuries later.  Guys with ankle problems tend to rely on heavy tape and support for the ankle, which simply transfers the force to the next joint up, the knee.

Unless he can run consistent 4.4s, I wouldn't spend the #9 pick on him.  If RB is what the Bengals want at #9, then I see Dalvin Cook as more of sure bet to be a long term productive back in the NFL. Then again, I'm also a guy that would take Malik Hooker over Barnett, in favor of Williams in the 2nd round.

Eh, Guice was also a 5-star guy coming out of high school, so it's not like they just got someone out of a dorm room and plugged him in and it magically worked out. Guice might have been the best back in the country at the end of the season.

[Interceptor]

Have we ever chosen "next best available".

[NATI BENGALS]

Its crazy watching his highlights how often he has untouched TD runs. Is his vision and speed that awesome? Or is that OL just dominating.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-05-2017, 06:28 PM)blt4584 Wrote: Eh, Guice was also a 5-star guy coming out of high school, so it's not like they just got someone out of a dorm room and plugged him in and it magically worked out. Guice might have been the best back in the country at the end of the season.

I like Guice's chances of NFL success more than Fournette's, as well.  Check out how Fournette did against opponents with defenses that were tough versus the run.  This year;  Alabama, Arkansas, Florida.  The previous two seasons, Alabama and Arkansas. 

[lostpoet2]

Yes, we can afford not to. The Rams, with a lacking o-line, could have afforded to not draft Todd Gurley. They didn't learn and, still without an offensive line, they traded up for Jared Goff. Let's not be the Rams.

[blt4584]

(01-05-2017, 07:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I like Guice's chances of NFL success more than Fournette's, as well.  Check out how Fournette did against opponents with defenses that were tough versus the run.  This year;  Alabama, Arkansas, Florida.  The previous two seasons, Alabama and Arkansas. 

Most of that  can probably be traced back to offensive moron Les Miles. His thing of "run straight ahead no matter what" was pretty easy to figure out and it turns out when that is the entire game plan year after year teams pick up on it. Les Miles was a straight up bad coach at the end of his run. And LF7 had a great game against Arky this year. I'll take 17 carries for 98 yards and 3 TDs any day.

I know I'm biased and all, but I think Guice might be the best RB prospect right now, eligible or otherwise.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2017, 07:31 PM)blt4584 Wrote: Most of that  can probably be traced back to offensive moron Les Miles. His thing of "run straight ahead no matter what" was pretty easy to figure out and it turns out when that is the entire game plan year after year teams pick up on it. Les Miles was a straight up bad coach at the end of his run. And LF7 had a great game against Arky this year. I'll take 17 carries for 98 yards and 3 TDs any day.

I know I'm biased and all, but I think Guice might be the best RB prospect right now, eligible or otherwise.

Jeremy Hill's success at LSU in the same system worries me about LF more than anything.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-05-2017, 07:30 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote: Yes, we can afford not to.  The Rams, with a lacking o-line, could have afforded to not draft Todd Gurley.  They didn't learn and, still without an offensive line, they traded up for Jared Goff.  Let's not be the Rams.

I'd say the biggest issue in LA is lack of a QB and stacked boxes.  JMO though.....

[Whatever]

(01-05-2017, 11:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: Jeremy Hill's success at LSU in the same system worries me about LF more than anything.

I bumped Fornette below Cook mainly due to reading to this.  LSU runs a power blocking scheme, and expects the back to hit the hole as designed, and their backs don't develop their vision as much as backs from a zone blocking scheme.  You see that in Hill, where he doesn't see a cut back lane or dances around trying to find a hole.

[blt4584]

(01-05-2017, 11:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: Jeremy Hill's success at LSU in the same system worries me about LF more than anything.

Were you worried about Winston coming out of FSU? It was thesame system that produced studs like JaMarcus Russell, Christian Ponder and EJ Manuel. You have to judge a prospect on their own merits or else when a school produces a bust at that position we have to abandon it until they change staffs

For whatever reason, Hill developed a fumbling problem here that he didn't have at LSU and it's in his head and it's causing him to be overly cautious. I don't know if he can fix it, but LSU's "system" didn't cause it.