Mental Toughness wins in the Playoffs

[GodFather]

(01-17-2017, 01:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: People can blame the refs...and try to discredit teams that win...but mental toughness and playmaking win in the playoffs.

Take for instance the KC/Pittsburgh game - The Chiefs best player Kelce has a ball go right through his hands on a deep throw. He also melts down and has the 15 yard personal foul for shoving a Steelers player. Meanwhile, the Steelers aren't scoring TD's and kicking FG's and their defense keeps playing great. They could have missed FG's and folded and went into a funk, but they kept playing.

Green Bay had an injury to their best WR...and so far won 2 playoff games. They have a WR playing RB!!! And they're still winning. That's mental toughness. They have excuses to lose, yet they keep playing hard and win. They convert 1st downs when they need to. They also don't go into a shell and try to advance the ball. Yeah...they could have just took a knee and went to OT, but instead they went for the win with 34 seconds left. The Bengals likely take a knee and go to OT.

New England...mentally tough. Virtually mistake free. The Texans hung with the Patriots in the 1st half. What do the Patriots do? They come out in the 2nd half and absolutely demolish Houston.

So many of our playoff appearances have been marred by mental errors. The Dalton interception to Watt that I believe was returned for a TD. Dropped passes. Fumbles. Penalties at inopportune times. Dropped passes. Plays that show the stage is too big for our guys.

So many other examples are out there of the mentally tougher team winning...we need to draft mentally tough players.

All teams are product of their coach. This team always shows the product of Marvin Lewis. Its not even an opinion because Lewis has coached completely different players and had different OC/DC and every resulted ended the same exact way. 

To add to your post, these teams that are very well coached when they do make a mistake. Rodgers threw an INT as well as Brady and the team different fall apart as a result.

Marvin Lewis will be back next season and I already have come to the conclusion that next season is shot and our good players are with us one year less a result.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-17-2017, 08:51 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Dak isn't playing like a top 5 team and they stayed in that game. They were down 16 points in the 4th.

Also, Big Ben had 0 TDs in his last game. 0. And the team won.

But sure. Give the credit to the QB for not scoring any points and not the defense.

Never gave credit to anyone, just an observation.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2017, 10:19 AM)GodFather Wrote: All teams are product of their coach. This team always shows the product of Marvin Lewis. Its not even an opinion because Lewis has coached completely different players and had different OC/DC and every resulted ended the same exact way. 

To add to your post, these teams that are very well coached when they do make a mistake. Rodgers threw an INT as well as Brady and the team different fall apart as a result.

Marvin Lewis will be back next season and I already have come to the conclusion that next season is shot and our good players are with us one year less a result.

This is pretty similar to what I was going to post.  I'd say that we have drafted some mentally tough players PISTONS, I just think they get here and become "Marvinized".  I mean, Dalton looked mentally tough at TCU, and in some 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season, AJ Green, Atkins, Whitworth, MLJ, Leon Hall, Reggie Nelson, Gio, and several others all seem(ed) fairly mentally tough to me.  Then, come playoff time, they collectively shit the bed.  It makes no sense.....unless you point the finger at one constant.


I posted something similar to this on the mothership.....what makes more sense?  A) we continually draft, sign, and trade for choke artists, or B) it's the coaching?  You be the judge.....

[THE PISTONS]

(01-18-2017, 12:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is pretty similar to what I was going to post.  I'd say that we have drafted some mentally tough players PISTONS, I just think they get here and become "Marvinized".  I mean, Dalton looked mentally tough at TCU, and in some 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season, AJ Green, Atkins, Whitworth, MLJ, Leon Hall, Reggie Nelson, Gio, and several others all seem(ed) fairly mentally tough to me.  Then, come playoff time, they collectively shit the bed.  It makes no sense.....unless you point the finger at one constant.


I posted something similar to this on the mothership.....what makes more sense?  A) we continually draft, sign, and trade for choke artists, or B) it's the coaching?  You be the judge.....

I remember Gresham as a rookie. He'd catch everything. He had great hands...then slowly over the years he'd start dropping passes. His blocking got sloppy. It was sad to watch.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2017, 01:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I remember Gresham as a rookie. He'd catch everything. He had great hands...then slowly over the years he'd start dropping passes. His blocking got sloppy. It was sad to watch.

....and the fumbles and penalties at the most inopportune times....the BS holding call at Miami on TNF notwithstanding.

[jj22]

It's coaching. When you watch these playoff games, how can anyone get the sense that our coaches can hang? They can't. I think I see it clearer now from the outside looking in. We aren't close to being one of the elites. Even with the talent, our coaches just can't match the brilliant coaches you see left in the tournament.

It's not only about talent that wins playoff games and championships.

[Interceptor]

Good talent can be neutralized by bad coaching.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-18-2017, 02:21 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Good talent can be neutralized by bad coaching.

The thing is...even when we had Zimmer and Gruden here...our team folded in the playoffs. Zimmers defense got destroyed in the playoff games he was here.

We had top notch OC's and still lost.

[GodFather]

(01-18-2017, 12:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is pretty similar to what I was going to post.  I'd say that we have drafted some mentally tough players PISTONS, I just think they get here and become "Marvinized".  I mean, Dalton looked mentally tough at TCU, and in some 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season, AJ Green, Atkins, Whitworth, MLJ, Leon Hall, Reggie Nelson, Gio, and several others all seem(ed) fairly mentally tough to me.  Then, come playoff time, they collectively shit the bed.  It makes no sense.....unless you point the finger at one constant.


I posted something similar to this on the mothership.....what makes more sense?  A) we continually draft, sign, and trade for choke artists, or B) it's the coaching?  You be the judge.....

not to mention what do we do this offseason with the 2 lineman that did well and are free agents (Whit, Zeitler)? Do we let Heitler walk and start all over or do we sign him long term and try to build a stout offense line? 

Kills me when we let players walk when we should resign and build. 

To be honest with you buddy it doesn't matter, I know Im a broken record saying this but it won't matter anyway with Marvin coaching. Im still waiting for the classic one year extension deal.

Only way that doesn't happen is if Marvin wants out after this upcoming season. Regardless it will be another wasted season for us to sit(no suffer) through...

[Interceptor]

(01-18-2017, 02:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is...even when we had Zimmer and Gruden here...our team folded in the playoffs. Zimmers defense got destroyed in the playoff games he was here.

We had top notch OC's and still lost.

When did Zimmer's defense get destroyed? Defense was doing their job. Offense couldn't score for peanuts. One single touchdown per quarter was enough to win.

2011 - 1st half Bengals down 10-17, within reach; 2nd half Bengals offense gives big donut, Defense only allowed 1 TD per Q

2012 - Bengals down 7-9 into the half, score a FG in each Q after the half, Defense holds Texans to only 10 pts in the 2nd half

2013 - Bengals down 7-10 into the half, within reach; 2nd half Offense gives a big fat donut, Defense does its best to get the ball back to the offense and hold Chargers 17-10 within range and allows on a FG entering into the 4th to make it 20-10 (still within reach), from 14:16 down to 3:00 defense held Chargers scoreless. But by that time it's obvious the Bengals cannot score no matter what (after starting the 4th Q with an INT and two straight 3-and-outs), Zimmer told his guys not to kill themselves because offense ain't doing squat and enjoy the summer - and a garbage time TD is had by Chargers with 2:16 left.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-18-2017, 02:48 PM)Interceptor Wrote: When did Zimmer's defense get destroyed? Defense was doing their job. Offense couldn't score for peanuts. One single touchdown per quarter was enough to win.

2011 - 1st half Bengals down 10-17, within reach; 2nd half Bengals offense gives big donut, Defense only allowed 1 TD per Q

2012 - Bengals down 7-9 into the half, score a FG in each Q after the half, Defense holds Texans to only 10 pts in the 2nd half

2013 - Bengals down 7-10 into the half, within reach; 2nd half Offense gives a big fat donut, Defense does its best to get the ball back to the offense and hold Chargers 17-10 within range and allows on a FG entering into the 4th to make it 20-10 (still within reach), from 14:16 down to 3:00 defense held Chargers scoreless. But by that time it's obvious the Bengals cannot score no matter what (after starting the 4th Q with an INT and two straight 3-and-outs), Zimmer told his guys not to kill themselves because offense ain't doing squat and enjoy the summer - and a garbage time TD is had by Chargers with 2:16 left.

The offense's poor play disguised the defenses inability to stop the run. You won't win many games giving up 180+ yards rushing:

2011 vs Houston - Foster had 153 yards rushing. Tate had 37.

2012 vs Houston - Foster had 140 yards. Martin had 16. Schaub had 262 yards passing.

2013 vs San Diego beat us 27-10. Brown had 77 yards rushing on 8 carries. Woodhead had 54 yards. Mathews 52. That's a lot of rushing yards to give up. Rivers was 12/16. We only had 1 sack.

[3wt]

(01-18-2017, 12:16 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Last years playoff loss to the Steelers was one of the biggest meltdowns I've seen in an sport.

A fumble when they just had to run out the clock and 2 personal fouls. Epic meltdown. Epic lack of mental toughness.

4 players out of 53 lost their stuff (don't forget Peko coming on to the field).  You can't get rid of Burfict, he 's just too good, and when it comes to playing he IS mentally tough.  And honestly Burfict's play was an NFL play, not the dirty play everyone makes it out to be.  You see that play several times every Sunday in the NFL.

The other 3 players, you have to question the cost/ benefit going forward.   But other than that the team played very mentally tough football that game to essentially have the game won without your starting QB. 

But I agree with Harrison.  We have a long history of not having mentally tough players.  Draft them smart and tough over athletic and upside and you're more liable to win the close games and the big games.

Needs to be a focus.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-18-2017, 03:47 PM)3wt Wrote: 4 players out of 53 lost their stuff (don't forget Peko coming on to the field).  You can't get rid of Burfict, he 's just too good, and when it comes to playing he IS mentally tough.  And honestly Burfict's play was an NFL play, not the dirty play everyone makes it out to be.  You see that play several times every Sunday in the NFL.

The other 3 players, you have to question the cost/ benefit going forward.   But other than that the team played very mentally tough football that game to essentially have the game won without your starting QB. 

But I agree with Harrison.  We have a long history of not having mentally tough players.  Draft them smart and tough over athletic and upside and you're more liable to win the close games and the big games.

Needs to be a focus.

Fire the coach then. He lost control of the team.

Remember when we were a playoff team years ago and in the game Palmer got hurt in, supposedly Chad Johnson punched Marvin and had the receivers coach Hue Jackson in a headlock in the locker room. Marvin lost control of that team and we suffered on the field for several years afterwards.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Chad-Johnson-punched-Marvin-Lewis-in-2006-playof?urn=nfl%2C70592

[Interceptor]

(01-18-2017, 03:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The offense's poor play disguised the defenses inability to stop the run. You won't win many games giving up 180+ yards rushing:

2011 vs Houston - Foster had 153 yards rushing. Tate had 37.

2012 vs Houston - Foster had 140 yards. Martin had 16. Schaub had 262 yards passing.

2013 vs San Diego beat us 27-10. Brown had 77 yards rushing on 8 carries. Woodhead had 54 yards. Mathews 52. That's a lot of rushing yards to give up. Rivers was 12/16. We only had 1 sack.

So then, there you go. This team is well-rounded in suckiness.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-17-2017, 01:35 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That's great -- but when mentally tough players are coached by the mentally weak, it results in weakness.  Marvin Lewis could sign the toughest member of the US Special Forces to play in Cincinnati and inside of six months that guy will be joining book clubs, taking women's studies courses online, drinking weak latte, and discussing his suppressed feelings with Dr. Phil.

You left out wearing a Tutu

[Derrick]

(01-17-2017, 01:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: People can blame the refs...and try to discredit teams that win...but mental toughness and playmaking win in the playoffs.

Take for instance the KC/Pittsburgh game - The Chiefs best player Kelce has a ball go right through his hands on a deep throw. He also melts down and has the 15 yard personal foul for shoving a Steelers player. Meanwhile, the Steelers aren't scoring TD's and kicking FG's and their defense keeps playing great. They could have missed FG's and folded and went into a funk, but they kept playing.

Green Bay had an injury to their best WR...and so far won 2 playoff games. They have a WR playing RB!!! And they're still winning. That's mental toughness. They have excuses to lose, yet they keep playing hard and win. They convert 1st downs when they need to. They also don't go into a shell and try to advance the ball. Yeah...they could have just took a knee and went to OT, but instead they went for the win with 34 seconds left. The Bengals likely take a knee and go to OT.

New England...mentally tough. Virtually mistake free. The Texans hung with the Patriots in the 1st half. What do the Patriots do? They come out in the 2nd half and absolutely demolish Houston.

So many of our playoff appearances have been marred by mental errors. The Dalton interception to Watt that I believe was returned for a TD. Dropped passes. Fumbles. Penalties at inopportune times. Dropped passes. Plays that show the stage is too big for our guys.

So many other examples are out there of the mentally tougher team winning...we need to draft mentally tough players.

How about some mentally tough coaches too!!!

[Derrick]

(01-17-2017, 10:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Bell having 170 yards rushing had a lot to do with the Steelers win...and their defense flying around looks good.

I'm not a fan of the 3-4. They had nosetackles dropping into coverage and big 270 lbs linebackers covering WR's and TE's...but the Chiefs failed to take advantage of it.

Were Zampese and Marvin behind the curtain coaching the Chiefs?

[*Nately120*]

(01-18-2017, 03:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The offense's poor play disguised the defenses inability to stop the run. You won't win many games giving up 180+ yards rushing:

2011 vs Houston - Foster had 153 yards rushing. Tate had 37.

2012 vs Houston - Foster had 140 yards. Martin had 16. Schaub had 262 yards passing.

2013 vs San Diego beat us 27-10. Brown had 77 yards rushing on 8 carries. Woodhead had 54 yards. Mathews 52. That's a lot of rushing yards to give up. Rivers was 12/16. We only had 1 sack.

In 2012 the defense held the Texans to 19 points while putting 7 on the board via a pick six and XP.  The worst offense in the NFL can get 13 points in a pinch, so that was just a huge fail, there.  We could also point out that teams ran all over our defense in no small part because we were playing catch-up and turning the ball over like mad in each game.

I'm not saying the defense wasn't an issue, but the offense has put up bottom-tier numbers each time.

[THE PISTONS]

(01-18-2017, 09:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: In 2012 the defense held the Texans to 19 points while putting 7 on the board via a pick six and XP.  The worst offense in the NFL can get 13 points in a pinch, so that was just a huge fail, there.  We could also point out that teams ran all over our defense in no small part because we were playing catch-up and turning the ball over like mad in each game.

I'm not saying the defense wasn't an issue, but the offense has put up bottom-tier numbers each time.

Playing catch-up just means teams run the ball to kill the clock. The defense failed to stop the run. It was pathetic.

The offense was absolutely the main issue and reason why we lost those games...but the defense melted down too by not being able to stop the run. Dalton's playoff stats are pretty bad. We generally can't run the ball in the playoffs too.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-17-2017, 02:23 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Yea.  Not sure if this has been mentioned around the board elsewhere, but so far, all kickers are 33/33 in FGs so far in the playoffs.

Whoa, didn't know that.

To the OP, yeah we need to draft players who are mentally tough but with coaches like Marv and PA who seem to
not give a damn it hurts even the most mentally tough players. I believe we have a lot of mentally tough players.

But i agree with FIK and Wyche. It starts with the HC and filters down.

Urban, Simmons and Guenther are good coaches and are mentally tough. Somehow they have not been Marved.

Shows in the play of their players.