Why is Marv 0-7 in the playoffs?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-18-2017, 11:00 PM)lone bengal Wrote: I give Marvin credit for turning the franchise around but jeeze were just gonna make an excuse for him all 14 seasons ? , give him a lifetime achievement award for turning the franchise around ? and a free coach for life pass ?. Marvin drafted Thurman and Chris Henry he knew they had character concernes before the draft if he couldn't control them then they should have been cut same with chad Johnson that's on him no excuses. He coundnt control pacman and Burfict in the playoff game and had his team captain Peko run onto the field to shove a steelers player.  His captain pacman got arrested this off season as well. He can't make in game or halftime adjustments and has god awful clock management skills. The 1st Ravens game this year was hands down the worse coached game I've ever seen. Letting  Tucker the best fg kicker in the league kick a field goal instead of pushing him back and accepting the penalty along with numerous other blunders calling a timeout giving the ravens time to challenge a play. Theirs no accountability what so ever players under perform for years and it takes him forever to make a move such as Ced and Nugent this year as well as Bodine. Why is Rey Maualuga  still on this team ? Guy showed up to camp at 270 this season and hasnt been good in years. Mike Brown shares the blame as well but so does Marvin sure you have  some unlucky breaks but from 14 years of watching him coach I know it's on him as well.

I was gonna post the cliff notes version of what you wrote in response to Kevin's post:  Excuses.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-18-2017, 06:34 PM)kevin Wrote: I think that is knit picking on the words ME or I.   It is a team game. Most coaches talk in terms of WE.  I think, " We Didn't Execute " is the right way to say it and how most coaches say it.  Football is a team game and the word WE needs to be used greatly and the word I used very little. It is a Team Game. 

Agree to disagree then. Dalton has used ME or I multiple times when criticized by the media for the team not succeeding. He's stepped up and taken the blame for not executing, even if things weren't all his fault. I can't recall a time where Marvin has taken the blame for anything.

Leaders should occasionally take the blame for everyone when things go wrong, at least IMO. It gives the other members a sense that their leaders have their back and can make the team more willing to succeed for said leaders.

[bengals67]

OP- one of the best posts ever on this board and former bengals.com board


It is so obvious that Marvin and our coaches almost always get outcoached after half time in regular season and that they have been regularly embarrassed as coaches in the playoffs.


As I have said many times, no other NFL team and, frankly, no other professional organization would tolerate this repeated record of failure

Two things are certain for next year- we will lose to the Steelers at least twice and we do not stand a chance of winning the Super Bowl.

It is beyond me to understand how most season ticket holders continue to renew their season tickets

[Bryan]

I have to agree with Wyche here Shake, Lewis blows.

[Burma]

(01-18-2017, 03:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Why is Marv 0-7 in the playoffs?




He sucks?

No, Goober.  It's because he lost.  

[Burma]

(01-18-2017, 04:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Tom is a brilliant lawyer and through intellect and cunning, he keeps the Corleones out of trouble.  However, when Santino goes to war against the Five Families, he replaces Hagen as consigliere because, in Santino's words, "Tom, I need a wartime consigliere."  Hagen, brilliant as he was, wasn't suited for the brutality of cosa nostra warfare.  When the Corleones won the war, Hagen was put back into his old position.  Think of Marvin Lewis as a Tom Hagen character:  Brilliant at normal operations but wholly outclassed in wartime. i.e. the playoffs.

This is really a good example.  Perfectly fitting, I think.  Marvin has shown outstanding ability navigating within "The Family" and it's business.  Wholly outclassed when dealing with direct conflict.  



Well done.  (literary references do so warm my cold heart).

[kevin]

(01-19-2017, 10:50 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Agree to disagree then. Dalton has used ME or I multiple times when criticized by the media for the team not succeeding. He's stepped up and taken the blame for not executing, even if things weren't all his fault. I can't recall a time where Marvin has taken the blame for anything.

Leaders should occasionally take the blame for everyone when things go wrong, at least IMO. It gives the other members a sense that their leaders have their back and can make the team more willing to succeed for said leaders.

I still say it's knit picking on the word usage.  ......I'll add Bengals players of past were too much on ME or I, and why the team was awful. Look at ME, I scored a touchdown I scored a touchdown, LOOK AT ME.  Bengals Fans loved it. Problem was, that was our weakness.  Now you take the Lombardi Packers or the Belichick Patriots.  When one of our ME players went to Patriots Belichick laid the law down before he even let him put on a uniform that all the ME jazz doesn't go on Patriots.  Patriots are TEAM, TEAM, TEAM. It has to be the TEAM.   See, you Bengals Fans, especially that came on in 1990's or the 2005 team, you just LOVE this ME, ME, ME stuff.  You didn't see that the good teams were laughing at the Bengals. The good teams said the Bengals players were all talk and no action. The good teams about TEAM, TEAM, TEAM thought the losing Bengals were a joke.  The more the Bengals lost, the more the Bengals ME players talked their jive ME trash talk. The good teams said the Bengals were a joke. So what many Bengals Fans loved was considered a joke and lousy football by the good teams in the NFL. 

I'll add in the Inauguration Speech 1-20-2017, the media mentioned the new President used the word I only twice, he used the word WE a lot and the word AMERICA even more. If you apply this to our team, the word I should almost never be used in losing or winning, the word WE should be used a lot more and use the word BENGALS more. You hear of Packers football, Steelers football, Patriots football and the words HISTORY and PRIDE are used, and always Team Concept. When some guy dances in the end zone and says look at ME, remember the guys that blocked to get him there. The 1985 Bears quarterback did, that great team gave the O Line credit in front of the fans on every score. That is putting TEAM over I or ME.

So I think this Coach Lewis saying WE not I is knit picking, and I would rather hear this franchise talk in terms of WE, and Bengals, and TEAM. I didn't go for all the ME, ME, ME stuff out of this team in the 1990s and those years around 2005 era players. I agree with the good teams in the NFL that said they were a joke and a bunch of losers. I really like the Bengals more since 2011. ....Now I'll tell you something else. I'm not saying Marvin Lewis is the best coach in the NFL ever. I am saying that taking this sorry Mike Brown franchise into the play-offs 50 % of the time is a miracle. This team had 12 losing seasons before Marvin Lewis. When Marvin Lewis is gone I can see the Brown Family having 12 losing seasons again. That is VERY possible. Now I have been a Bengal Fan since 1968, but that also makes me 62. I am running out of days and years. If this team ever goes back in 1990's type BUNGLES football, I will NOT be a part of it. I do not have 12 years to waste watching The Brown Family stink up the place. There are too many other things besides this team. If this team EVER starts being called The Bungles again, I'm done. I will not waste my time on it. ....SO, to you that hate Marvin Lewis so much, I'm going to warn you. When Marvin Lewis is gone, The Bengals could go right back to 12 years of 3 or 4 win seasons. I do not see the Brown Family hiring The Great White Hope Head Coach many of you dream of. I see them hiring more coaches like Homer Rice and Dave Shula. I do NOT see The Brown Family hiring more scouts or a GM because they are too cheap. I DO see them maybe leaving Cincinnati for MONEY. When Marvin Lewis is gone, there is a good chance The Brown Family falls back into the 3 or 4 win seasons of BUNGLES for many years as before Coach Lewis. I'll have a pretty good idea where the Brown Family is going if this March they go back to back years of losing top players. If The Brown Family loses Hall, Nelson, Jones, Sanu, Andre Smith, Kirkpatrick, Zeitler, Whitworth, Peko, Burkhead and others all in 12 months time, I will know The Brown Family is going cheap and they do not care about winning. Like the Mel Brooks movie The Producers, The Brown Family discovered they can make more money off a flop than with a hit. If they lose all these players in March, don't be so stupid to blame the coach, it is Mike Brown and Family.

[John Shaft]

Lewis brings a lot to the franchise, but........bottom line, he's just not a good on field game time coach or he would have figured out a way to win at least 1 out of the 7 playoff games.

[HarleyDog]

(01-18-2017, 03:26 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe if Marvin just stayed home on playoff game day...

Next time we make the playoffs, I'll volunteer to lead a posse to hunt Marvin down and kidnap him for four hours.  Who's with me?

I know a guy with a van.

[BengalsRocker]

Except coaches are responsible for the team Kevin.

That is why they get fired(usually)when they fail. Even with regular season winning records.

So yes... Marvin does need to take on ownership in losing.

It's all inflated ego and a false sense of how the rest of the league operates on his part.

He lives in his Bengals bubble bizarro world.

No where else would he be able to remain HC.

Don't forget that this guy is in the likes of multiple superbowl winning coach Belichick as far as tenure.

That's just silly. Plain and simple.

[BengalsRocker]

I basically lost the last bit of respect for Marvin when he called out Dunlap publicly and insinuated that he was not putting in enough effort.

What kind of dumbshit (reverse psychology I'm sure)strategy is that?

I'm sure it's him chuckling and thinking "Heh heh Carlos publicly wanted the sack record. I'm gonna make him look stupid so he won't say stuff like that again."

Great way to alienate one of your best players. Yeah I bet he will want to work harder for you now.

Marvin should focus on his failures instead.

Picking project player flops, keeping a kicker who can't make an extra point, signing crap players like Maualuga/Peko who clearly underperform at their positions, getting outscored and coached in epic proportions.

These are all instances of him making mistakes. He needs to own it.

[Benton]

Jim o posted something recently I hadn't heard before (least I think it was something of his), that brown views the staff as teachers. The coaches are there to teach the players and then turn them loose.

which makes sense why Marvin thinks changing things in the second half is some contrived notion by sports reporters (I'm not sure how he refers to adjustments the other team makes). And it makes sense that the players approach the playoffs with the same preparation (or lack of) as regular season. The other stuff (lack of pass success, inability to stop the run, etc) builds off that lack of preparation.

I was watching ESPN the other day and they were talking about how the pats are built to not give up big plays. Honestly, I've always felt that was the approach here. Lineman who can't rush the pass, but can contain short yardage runs, lbers who dont attack the QB but prevent short to mid pass plays from developing. The difference is, we both have the same approach to building teams, but the game day is totally different.

[kevin]

(01-21-2017, 10:50 AM)John Shaft Wrote: Lewis brings a lot to the franchise, but........bottom line, he's just not a good on field game time coach or he would have figured out a way to win at least 1 out of the 7 playoff games.

1 out of the 7 is all we should have won...The Chargers in Cincinnati.  There is no excuse for that one....2005, Carson injured on first play, 2015 Dalton out, 2014 forget about it-everybody was injured-no chance at Indy. 2009 was book ended by 2008 and 2010 lousy teams and 2009 team got beat back to back weeks by a Jets team just better.  The team was rebuilt in 2011 but it was a miracle we were even in the play-offs in 2011 and 2012, and on the road at Houston, forget about it. .......but the Chargers in Cincy that 2013 season. I'm thinking maybe we didn't have Atkins. Still, that is one we should have won. ......I think Lewis did a great job in 2015 season as we had the lead with less than a minute to go with Dalton injured.  Hill, Burfict and Pacman gave the Steelers the game winning field goal, just gave it to Steelers. With seconds to go the fumble and then 30 free yards in penalties to give other team a field goal.  Even without Dalton we had that game won. 

Still, I stand on all I just said before this that Mike Brown never had winning seasons before Coach Lewis, and The Brown Family may never have winning seasons after Coach Lewis. I say that is at least a 50 % chance looking at The Brown Family. 

[Hoofhearted]

(01-21-2017, 11:27 AM)kevin Wrote: 1 out of the 7 is all we should have won...

This seems like ownerships frame of mind as well, which is all that needs said

[Derrick]

(01-18-2017, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "Everybody understands the object of the game is to win games. That’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players. It’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players as much as we can. When it’s not there then we have to get a new player."  - Marvin Lewis

This quote, addressing the playoff failures, exemplifies the lack of accountability that is often talked about when it comes to Marvin and the coaching staff.

He acknowledges that it's the coaches 'responsibility' to get the players to perform well in the postseason, but then when it doesn't happen, he says they have to get a 'new player'. 

If it's the coaches responsibility and the head coach has failed all 7 times...then it would seem logical that the head coach has failed miserably and should be held accountable. But, Marvin doesn't seem to see himself as a part of the problem, and evidently doesn't see the incredible irony in his statement.

Marvy's dismal record in primetime, playoffs, and against Pittsburgh is not only due to the reasons mentioned above, but to his admitted attitude that each one is "just another game". NOT COOL! 

John Cooper (the  Bengals "outstanding" special consultant) was the Ohio State Buckeyes head coach for > a decade. He had a good record EXCEPT he couldn't beat Michigan mostly because, unlike MI coaches, he treated the Michigan game as just another game. It took Jim Tressel and Urban M. to fix it!

This mindset is a big part of the reason the Bengals always fail in the big games. Who is going to fix it in Cincy???

[Shake n Blake]

(01-21-2017, 11:19 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Marvin should focus on his failures instead.

I've never heard Marv call himself (or the entire staff) out for anything specific like he does with players. He has no qualms breaking out that tired BS about "player x" needs to step up as a leader. 

Does it occur to him that if lack of leadership has always been a problem, that maybe HE is doing something wrong? Of course, it all traces back to lack of accountability. 

Our "GM" is ok with mediocre (based on past comments and continual extensions for mediocre coaches)....therefore Marv's seat is very comfortable. There's no pressure on anyone, and that extends down to our players, who are often kept to the ends of their contracts regardless of performance.

(01-21-2017, 11:27 AM)kevin Wrote: 1 out of the 7 is all we should have won...The Chargers in Cincinnati.  

1. Even if you're right, teams often win games they shouldn't. It happens every single year in the playoffs. By sheer probability, the Bengals should've at least lucked into a couple. Instead, we were thoroughly overmatched (outcoached) in all but the last Pittsburgh game.

2. You could easily make an argument that we should've beaten TJ Yates even in Houston. We were up 17-14 at halftime with Kitna playing lights out. We should've beaten the Jets in Cincy. The Chargers game should've been a lock...Our first home loss all year - in convincing fashion - against a team we'd beaten on the road. We also should've beaten the Steelers in the last game.

The offense has never shown up, and we get blown out in the 2nd half. Our star players have almost always folded like a tent. That's a coaching issue, not a "the other teams were better than us" issue

[GodFather]

(01-21-2017, 11:27 AM)kevin Wrote: 1 out of the 7 is all we should have won...The Chargers in Cincinnati.  There is no excuse for that one....2005, Carson injured on first play, 2015 Dalton out, 2014 forget about it-everybody was injured-no chance at Indy. 2009 was book ended by 2008 and 2010 lousy teams and 2009 team got beat back to back weeks by a Jets team just better.  The team was rebuilt in 2011 but it was a miracle we were even in the play-offs in 2011 and 2012, and on the road at Houston, forget about it. .......but the Chargers in Cincy that 2013 season. I'm thinking maybe we didn't have Atkins. Still, that is one we should have won. ......I think Lewis did a great job in 2015 season as we had the lead with less than a minute to go with Dalton injured.  Hill, Burfict and Pacman gave the Steelers the game winning field goal, just gave it to Steelers. With seconds to go the fumble and then 30 free yards in penalties to give other team a field goal.  Even without Dalton we had that game won. 

Still, I stand on all I just said before this that Mike Brown never had winning seasons before Coach Lewis, and The Brown Family may never have winning seasons after Coach Lewis. I say that is at least a 50 % chance looking at The Brown Family. 

Talk about setting the bar as low as the team you follow. 

Your wrong, we should've beaten the Jets and also one of the Texans games. And most of all we should've walked out of that game last year against the Steelers with a win. We were a better team player wise and they had better coaching. Coaching wins out 99.9% of the time when your in playoff games. The cream rises to the top, and a Lewis led team sinks like a heavy turd

[CINwillWIN]

(01-18-2017, 04:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: My answer might upset half of the board and alienate the other half, but the OP asked a perfectly legitimate question about Marvin Lewis and his 0-7 playoff record as head coach of the Cincinnati Bengals.   We need to examine Marvin's overall playoff record as he was also the linebacker coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers from 1992-1995 and the Ravens' defensive coordinator from 1996-2001.  Marvin's overall playoff record is 4-13.  The Steelers won a few postseason games with Marvin coaching the linebackers but they lost their only Super Bowl appearance during his tenure.  With the Ravens, Marvin was the record-setting defensive coordinator during their Super Bowl win in 2001.

Now, you ask, why are the Bengals 0-7 in postseason play with Marvin as head coach?  What he didn't learn in Pittsburgh or Baltimore is this:  Postseason play is not like regular season play.  It's harder, it's faster, and it's more intense.  One cannot game plan for a playoff game as if it were taking place mid-season.  Urban Meyer fell into the same bad habit against Clemson and got the Buckeyes' butts kicked in the process.  If we learned anything from watching Aaron Rodgers play this past weekend, for example, it is about how to raise one's personal level of play to new heights.  That doesn't happen with the Bengals in the postseason; the players seem to underperform, often embarrassingly so.  Basically their regular season effort doesn't cut it against teams primed for postseason play; it's that simple.

Now why?  Why has Marvin not prepared these players for battle?  The answer lies in reading The Godfather and focusing on the character of Tom Hagen, the Corleone Family consigliere.  Tom is a brilliant lawyer and through intellect and cunning, he keeps the Corleones out of trouble.  However, when Santino goes to war against the Five Families, he replaces Hagen as consigliere because, in Santino's words, "Tom, I need a wartime consigliere."  Hagen, brilliant as he was, wasn't suited for the brutality of cosa nostra warfare.  When the Corleones won the war, Hagen was put back into his old position.  Think of Marvin Lewis as a Tom Hagen character:  Brilliant at normal operations but wholly outclassed in wartime. i.e. the playoffs.

Like the Godfather reference...too bad he isn't more like Fredo...eh? eh?? *wink wink*
(For those wondering, if you never saw the series, Fredo was like a pimp. He was the Godfather's nephew and would get his esteemed, out-of-town, big shot guests laid and then ironically, Fredo himself, got offed' by the Godfather... So, Marvin isn't getting anyone 'laid' when he coaches in the playoffs....  ...just ask my wife.)

[*wildcats forever*]

(01-18-2017, 05:21 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: "Everybody understands the object of the game is to win games. That’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players. It’s our responsibility to pull it out of the players as much as we can. When it’s not there then we have to get a new player."  - Marvin Lewis

This quote, addressing the playoff failures, exemplifies the lack of accountability that is often talked about when it comes to Marvin and the coaching staff.

He acknowledges that it's the coaches 'responsibility' to get the players to perform well in the postseason, but then when it doesn't happen, he says they have to get a 'new player'. 

If it's the coaches responsibility and the head coach has failed all 7 times...then it would seem logical that the head coach has failed miserably and should be held accountable. But, Marvin doesn't seem to see himself as a part of the problem, and evidently doesn't see the incredible irony in his statement.

Worse yet, neither does Mike Brown. He's the only one that can take Marvin to task over this miserable situation, yet he's as blind as anyone.

[Trademark]

McCarron basically won us our first playoff game despite having a doofus coach. Lewis is way too conservative and needs to go