Scouting the Senior Bowl

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2017, 12:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Arm length isn't such a big deal with interior OLmen, as it is with Tackles.  Tackles need that arm length to deal with pass rushers trying to go wide on them.  Centers, dealing more with NTs, need to be able to drive the bigger man off of the ball, and simply keep their body between the defender and the QB on passing plays.

Tell that to Bodine, who seems to never get into the body of the defender to drive the bigger man off the ball. He can usually keep himself between Dalton and the QB, but he's still getting driven back into Dalton and that pocket is constantly collapsing.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-27-2017, 12:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Tell that to Bodine, who seems to never get into the body of the defender to drive the bigger man off the ball. He can usually keep himself between Dalton and the QB, but he's still getting driven back into Dalton and that pocket is constantly collapsing.

I guess that I just see Bodine's issues as more lower body related, as in he doesn't have the leg/hip drive to move the bigger man off of the ball, or anchor against the bull rush of the bigger man.  It's not a matter of arm length, the NT is lined up 6 inches from him.

[coachmcneil71]

(01-27-2017, 01:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I guess that I just see Bodine's issues as more lower body related, as in he doesn't have the leg/hip drive to move the bigger man off of the ball, or anchor against the bull rush of the bigger man.  It's not a matter of arm length, the NT is lined up 6 inches from him.

Agree, strong upper body but doesn't have the same strength downstairs.

[Jpoore]

(01-27-2017, 12:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Tell that to Bodine, who seems to never get into the body of the defender to drive the bigger man off the ball. He can usually keep himself between Dalton and the QB, but he's still getting driven back into Dalton and that pocket is constantly collapsing.

That's a factor of bodine not having anchors for legs and bodine is more of a let the guy come to you where as elflien attacks the defender he doesn't wait he's an aggressive run blocker really aggressive.short arms are why tackles move to guard. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-27-2017, 05:38 PM)Jpoore Wrote: That's a factor of bodine not having anchors for legs and bodine is more of a let the guy come to you where as elflien attacks the defender he doesn't wait he's an aggressive run blocker really aggressive.short arms are why tackles move to guard. 

Yea I know shorter arms are why tackles move to guard, but that typically means they have good arm length for interior OL. From what I've always gathered (and backed up in the link below), good length for remaining at OT is 35"+. Anything at 32.5" and less is considered short for an OL. Average arm length for OL prospects at the combine the past 5-6 years has been about 33.75".
http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/4/9/8353255/broncos-2015-draft-arm-length-and-the-offensive-line

The above link also highlights recent OL players that measured in at 32.5" and shorter arm length along with the success they've had in the NFL.
I didn't realize players like the Pounceys and DeCastro all have 32.5" arms or less. Yet, they still seem to win with leverage, a mean streak, and/or strong anchoring.

Perhaps Bodine does suffer more from his approach/mentality and lack of anchoring, but I also think having longer arms would still be beneficial over shorter arms. You're right that Elflein definitely demonstrates aggressive run blocking. Something it seems Bodine lacks. I still consider Pocic over Elflein, but both can be successful. Again, wouldn't be mad about Elflein as a Bengal, I just think Pocic will be better.

[Jpoore]

(01-27-2017, 06:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea I know shorter arms are why tackles move to guard, but that typically means they have good arm length for interior OL. From what I've always gathered (and backed up in the link below), good length for remaining at OT is 35"+. Anything at 32.5" and less is considered short for an OL. Average arm length for OL prospects at the combine the past 5-6 years has been about 33.75".
http://www.milehighreport.com/2015/4/9/8353255/broncos-2015-draft-arm-length-and-the-offensive-line

The above link also highlights recent OL players that measured in at 32.5" and shorter arm length along with the success they've had in the NFL.
I didn't realize players like the Pounceys and DeCastro all have 32.5" arms or less. Yet, they still seem to win with leverage, a mean streak, and/or strong anchoring.

Perhaps Bodine does suffer more from his approach/mentality and lack of anchoring, but I also think having longer arms would still be beneficial over shorter arms. You're right that Elflein definitely demonstrates aggressive run blocking. Something it seems Bodine lacks. I still consider Pocic over Elflein, but both can be successful. Again, wouldn't be mad about Elflein as a Bengal, I just think Pocic will be better.

Strong strong arguments. I will leave with this. I think Pocic has the higher floor, elflien has the higher ceiling imo. You gotta remember he won the remmington award as the nation's top center in his first year at Center. Whose to say he can't be a Pro bowler for years to come with more experience at the position? But the thing I love is his versatility to play guard or center at an elite level. That said Pocic or elflien would be an immideate  upgrade. Couldn't find elflien arm length but Pocic is 32 5/8

[*bfine32*]

(01-27-2017, 04:18 AM)Jpoore Wrote: yeah my problem with a super tall center like that is it's right in front of his face. I think tackle is different than center. 

LSU guy measured 6'6". Alex Mack is 6'4". Mark Pouncey is 6'5", Eric Wood is 6'4", Travis Fredrick is 6'4'. I don't think 6'6" is an issue.

[pulses]

(01-28-2017, 12:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: LSU guy measured 6'6". Alex Mack is 6'4". Mark Pouncey is 6'5", Eric Wood is 6'4", Travis Fredrick is 6'4'. I don't think 6'6" is an issue.

We just all know how this franchise is when it comes to drafting a Center. I doubt we even draft one this year and if we do it'll be in the later rounds(toth possibly). I don't agree with it but it is what it is.  

[Jpoore]

(01-28-2017, 12:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: LSU guy measured 6'6". Alex Mack is 6'4". Mark Pouncey is 6'5", Eric Wood is 6'4", Travis Fredrick is 6'4'. I don't think 6'6" is an issue.

Mack is 6"4 Ryan is 6"4. Pouncey is 6"5 Big Ben is 6"5. Eric Wood is 6"4 ej manuel/cardale Jones is 6"5. Fredrick is 6"4 Prescott is 6"2. Dalton is 6"2 Pocic would be 6"6. That's not the only problem. Another problem is leverage due to being tall.  here is Pocic weakness from his draft profile

Tall for a center, losing some leverage battles because of it. Athletic ability offset by below-average core strength. Doesn't play with the pad level or leg drive to uproot defenders without help. Gets jarred by power across from him. Upper body strength needs work. Anchor will always be an issue against zero-technique nose guards. Gives into pocket pushers, creating traffic in the backfield. Defenders able to drive through his edge and redirect attempts. Can be quicker into proper positioning for reach blocks. Has difficulty securing zone blocks at times.

[*bfine32*]

(01-28-2017, 12:51 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Mack is 6"4 Ryan is 6"4. Pouncey is 6"5 Big Ben is 6"5. Eric Wood is 6"4 ej manuel/cardale Jones is 6"5. Fredrick is 6"4 Prescott is 6"2. Dalton is 6"2 Pocic would be 6"6. That's not the only problem. Another problem is leverage due to being tall.  here is Pocic weakness from his draft profile

..and LSU QB Danny Etling, is 6'1". Every draft profile is going to list weaknesses and more often than not the Olinmen's all read pretty much same: "stiff, means more strength, technique". Pocic was not a favorite just reported what I saw in the drills and he looked good and quite salty. WTS, Feeney made the most money this week as an interior Olineman.

[NATI BENGALS]

I didnt know Jeff Blake is Zay Jones uncle. His dad was in the NFL too. My favorite mid round WR after seeing him today.

Feeney looks damn good. Was hoping to see him at C today.

I dont think Pocic has missed a snap switching between G and C. I want him on our team.

[coachmcneil71]

(01-28-2017, 07:15 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I didnt know Jeff Blake is Zay Jones uncle. His dad was in the NFL too. My favorite mid round WR after seeing him today.

Feeney looks damn good. Was hoping to see him at C today.

I dont think Pocic has missed a snap switching between G and C. I want him on our team.

Jones looked good. Adams DE/DT Auburn showed promise. As did the Villanova kid.

[*bfine32*]

(01-28-2017, 07:15 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I didnt know Jeff Blake is Zay Jones uncle. His dad was in the NFL too. My favorite mid round WR after seeing him today.

Feeney looks damn good. Was hoping to see him at C today.

I dont think Pocic has missed a snap switching between G and C. I want him on our team.

Zay is someone I've been keeping an eye on. He has a older brother that was supposed to be a better prospect and all Zay wanted was a chance to play ECU gave him a chance because on the Blake connection. He will most likely cost us our 2nd.  

[McC]

(01-28-2017, 12:28 AM)pulses Wrote: We just all know how this franchise is when it comes to drafting a Center. I doubt we even draft one this year and if we do it'll be in the later rounds(toth possibly). I don't agree with it but it is what it is.  

Kind of ironic for a franchise's whose very first draft pick was a C.

[McC]

(01-28-2017, 08:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Zay is someone I've been keeping an eye on. He has a older brother that was supposed to be a better prospect and all Zay wanted was a chance to play ECU gave him a chance because on the Blake connection. He will most likely cost us our 2nd.  

And the name is awesome.  Zay, what a great catch.  Zay, this guy is good.  Zay, I wish we would've drafted him. 

I've actually seen him mocked to us in a few places in the second.

[coachmcneil71]

I thought Pumphrey improved his stock after weighing in at 169 lbs.

[Okeana]

(01-28-2017, 09:41 PM)McC Wrote: And the name is awesome.  Zay, what a great catch.  Zay, this guy is good.  Zay, I wish we would've drafted him. 

I've actually seen him mocked to us in a few places in the second.

I mocked him to us.  I originally had him going in 3rd - 4th, but with this weekend I wouldn't be surprised if he rising to end of first especially if he has a great combine. 

 I also had us taking Pumphrey with our 3rd 4th round pick mainly as a slot receiver, but i think the guy is so small it will be hard to predict his draft.  He ran really well, but didn't the carries of larger backs.  

I think Evan Engram will be a dynamic TE in the NFL, but he didn't get many clean passes today to really help improve his stock.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a team like the Patriots take him.

Lastly I thought Haason Reddick looked good at OLB and may be an option in the 2nd if we decide to kick vontaze or nick vigil inside. He could also be converted to an ILB and may be a step above Raekwon McMillan.  I doubt he makes it out of the first tho

[Au165]

(01-28-2017, 09:53 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I thought Pumphrey improved his stock after weighing in at 169 lbs.

His hope has got to be that people see Sproles in him as that weight and size is a red flag.