Us not getting anything from the...

[CJD]

Cedric was a bad player in college. There is no reason to believe he'll be good in the NFL. I remember being shocked when he was picked and I remain annoyed and unsurprised with his development thus far.

Hopefully, with a top 10 pick, we get a plug and play starter with no need for extensive development.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-24-2017, 06:52 PM)milksheikh Wrote: I still have some sort of belief in him, according to him at least.. He had a really bad year and in the offseason was trying to get back to football and didn't get to train to get better or anything like that. I'm looking at it sort of like the Geno Atkins situation where he wasn't that dominant the year after coming back from an injury and after having a full offseason of training, he went off.

Ogbuehi knows what he has to do to get better and will have the ability to train to get better this offseason after such a terrible season. I still believe in Ogbuehi in being our franchise Left Tackle, I think he has a great season next year to be honest.

Ogbuehi ended the year on IR with a torn rotator cuff that they initially said needed surgery. But apparently it didnt. 


Hopefully he healed up and is in the gym already. But I cant help but think how they handled Eifert last year. 


Either way a guy that needs to get stronger will have a tough time doing so if he has an injured shoulder.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-24-2017, 11:58 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes - And when you don't sign many big-time, impact free agents outside of mid 30's guys and guys to 1 year deals...you need to hit on 1st Round picks.

While Jackson was injured the entire year...he could have returned...instead they brought Peerman back.

How does that decision look now, with the recent Adam Jones news?  

Should have played WJIII and see what we have there, but at least Dennard did get some more snaps.  

[THE PISTONS]

(01-25-2017, 02:59 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Ogbuehi ended the year on IR with a torn rotator cuff that they initially said needed surgery. But apparently it didnt. 


Hopefully he healed up and is in the gym already. But I cant help but think how they handled Eifert last year. 


Either way a guy that needs to get stronger will have a tough time doing so if he has an injured shoulder.

2015 Draft Preview:


http://www.bigblueview.com/2015/3/6/8103731/2015-nfl-draft-cedric-ogbuehi-ot-texas-am-scouting-report





Does He Fit With The Giants?

Yes. He'd be a better fit in a zone scheme. He's reportedly pretty smart and he's got good awareness. I'm not sure the Giants would be smart in investing a first or second round pick in him however, as he had a pretty bad season in terms of just allowing pressure in pass protection along with suffering an ACL injury.

[milksheikh]

(01-24-2017, 11:58 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Cedric was a bad player in college. There is no reason to believe he'll be good in the NFL. I remember being shocked when he was picked and I remain annoyed and unsurprised with his development thus far.

Hopefully, with a top 10 pick, we get a plug and play starter with no need for extensive development.

He was regarded a top 10 pick before he got injured...?

[CJD]

(01-25-2017, 03:13 PM)milksheikh Wrote: He was regarded a top 10 pick before he got injured...?

On potential alone. Every scouting report written about him talks about how athletic and long he is. None of them mention production or even functional tools other than generic stuff like "Natural knee-bender" or "Has the ability to shut down elite pass-rushers for 4 quarters"


Meanwhile, his weaknesses were concrete problems such as "Functional power and anchor are legitimate concerns. Technique flaws make pass protection harder than it has to be. Football leverage isn't as good as expected. Doesn't play with enough bend at impact. His punch in pass pro can be woefully mistimed and he plays with wide hands and some wasted motion in setup" and "Upper-body technique hasn't improved, with inconsistent hand placement and a streaky punch, leaving him off-balance and allowing rushers to attack his breastplate.

Some passivity to his game, preferring to "catch" rather than control opponents. By over-setting on his initial kick-slide, he leaves his chest plate open to power rushes and will occasionally lean into defenders rather than keeping his feet shuffling.
Has a tendency to get too high off the snap when drive blocking, which leaves him vulnerable to swim moves over the top."


So all his good tools are physical stuff like...fast....mobile...athletic...long...


And then his bad tools are technique and mental stuff like...anchor and power concerns...football leverage isn't good...mistimed punch...can't ***** block shit...


That's a project. We drafted a project at OT.


And that's not inherently a bad thing. But we should stop with this whole "He was a great college player" stuff.


He played 3 positions in 3 years. He was demoted from LT for 2 games for poor play. He allowed 7 sacks in his only year as LT. He wasn't a good player. It's a myth.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-24-2017, 07:22 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe they got a little cocky, reading their own press, hearing the praise, started getting hung up on the idea of getting steals in the draft.  That, and ever listening to PA in the draft room, has set them back two years later.

Add in last year's pick.  He can;t play because we don't know if he's good enough.  We won't know if he's good enough because we won't let him play.  It's a combination of things but it all boils down to ***** themselves.

I think there's a lot of truth here. They had a couple pretty good drafts and they started thinking they were the draft whisperers. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-24-2017, 11:10 AM)milksheikh Wrote: Us not getting anything from the last 3 first round picks has hurt us and I think it was one of the reasons we sort of had a "decline" this year.


2014: Darqueze Dennard: Injured most of the time, when plays doesn't play that good.
2015: Cedric Ogbuehi: Played terrible at Right Tackle, could be better at Left Tackle (natural position).
2016: William Jackson III: Injured for the whole year.



We haven't got any actual products from our last 3 first round picks...

While there is a lot of truth to this...I mean, it sure couldn't help, but the fact that they stayed with Ogbuehi as long as they did and the performance of Nugent this year is the biggest reason for the decline year over year...Burfict's suspension didn't help, either.

At least there is still hope for Dennard and WJIII.  Like many others, I think Ced might have just been a huge whiff.  I hope that turns out to be false, but the advent of the spread has created more and more early round busts at the tackle position.  

And the positive spin is that the Bengals have received contributions from their other picks:

Boyd:  slot starter, solid rookie season
Vigil:  nickel starter next year, actually defended a pass to a TE in an actual game (that's progress for our LBs)
Billings:  TBD
Cody Core:  possible starter at X
Fej:  special teams demon, filled in nicely when called upon

The 2015 class is probably the biggest dud, as Fisher just started to show that he could be a competent RT and Shaw is a versatile guy on the back end.  Uzomah flashed in limited opportunities...but the rest of that class (Kroft, Dawson, Hardison, Alford) is a pretty big pile of nothing thus far.  

The 2014 Class has been littered with mediocrity.  Hill (one year wonder), Clarke (yawn), Bodine (puke), McCarron (biggest contribution might lay ahead with a trade), Flowers (double yawn), and Wright (triple yawn?).

This upcoming draft, with at least 11 selections will set this team up for the next 3-5 years, either for failure or success.  

[THE PISTONS]

(01-24-2017, 07:22 PM)McC Wrote: Maybe they got a little cocky, reading their own press, hearing the praise, started getting hung up on the idea of getting steals in the draft.  That, and ever listening to PA in the draft room, has set them back two years later.

Add in last year's pick.  He can;t play because we don't know if he's good enough.  We won't know if he's good enough because we won't let him play.  It's a combination of things but it all boils down to ***** themselves.

The Margus Hunt pick was absolutely cockiness. He was a guy that didn't have a great college career and was at a more advanced age than most college players.

Drafting a Tackle with an ACL injury from a Bowl game was a "We're smarter than you" move too. At minimum it was a major reach violating the "Best available player" philosophy.

[BengalChris]

(01-24-2017, 11:36 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Stop with the Ogbuehi natural position thing. I know a lot of people say that, but he played RT more than LT in college. Kid is just not a good player. He could be good, but he needs to be coached up.

Oh God I couldn't agree more. I've been pointing that out also. It's just a face saving statement. The guy has been a bust so far. I'm still convinced our OL coach is having secret motel rendezvous with Bodine and Ogbuehi accepting their favors in exchange for a roster spot.

(01-24-2017, 11:40 AM)milksheikh Wrote: He was regarded a top prospect due to his abilities as a left tackle and was First-Team All American as a left tackle.

That doesn't make him a good player or a good draft pick. For an OT (on either side) the most basic "must have" ability is the ability to block. Sadly, that's the one he's missing. It doesn't matter how athletic a guy is if he can't stay between the rusher and the QB or move a defender off the line what good is he at playing OT?

[SunsetBengal]

(01-26-2017, 09:04 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Oh God I couldn't agree more. I've been pointing that out also. It's just a face saving statement. The guy has been a bust so far. I'm still convinced our OL coach is having secret motel rendezvous with Bodine and Ogbuehi accepting their favors in exchange for a roster spot.



That doesn't make him a good player or a good draft pick. For an OT (on either side) the most basic "must have" ability is the ability to block. Sadly, that's the one he's missing. It doesn't matter how athletic a guy is if he can't stay between the rusher and the QB or move a defender off the line what good is he at playing OT?

Maybe they can slim him down, and move him to TE? 

[MaineBengal]

Ogbuehi needs a strong offseason, both in terms of focusing on technique, and also in the weight room. Both of his offseasons so far in the NFL he has been injured and not able to practice or work out like he should.

Clearly he underachieved at RT this year, but give him time. He still has rare athletic ability and once he gets stronger and gets to the point where he's not thinking about technique, he could be dominant. I still have hope for him.

But he's got to do the work. Show me don't tell me.

[Lawless_1]

(01-24-2017, 04:16 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Cedric may be better suited as an NFL LT, but lets just call it like it is, he's just not that good.

Can he improve? certainly

Im not banking on him being a major contributor on this team in the future. I foresee us looking for FA help and drafting a tackle in the near future. But im no Piano Man.

I'm willing to bet we bring Andre back ala MJ.

[BengalChris]

(01-28-2017, 12:54 AM)MaineBengal Wrote: Ogbuehi needs a strong offseason, both in terms of focusing on technique, and also in the weight room. Both of his offseasons so far in the NFL he has been injured and not able to practice or work out like he should.

Clearly he underachieved at RT this year, but give him time. He still has rare athletic ability and once he gets stronger and gets to the point where he's not thinking about technique, he could be dominant. I still have hope for him.

But he's got to do the work. Show me don't tell me.

Yeah, except he ended the year on IR with a torn rotator cuff. So his off season is already stalled. 

He didn't just underachieve in 2016, he was at the bottom of the league. He really played no better than a bad backup.

[MaineBengal]

Yeah, I think the issues are fixable though. I think that's why they kept him in there way longer than they should have.

There were the occasional assignment errors, bad technique, but really most of the issue was he wasn't strong enough to stand up to the bull rush. probably 7 or 8 out of 10 of the problems he had this year were from bull rush.

[Derrick]

(01-28-2017, 03:30 AM)MaineBengal Wrote: Yeah, I think the issues are fixable though. I think that's why they kept him in there way longer than they should have.

There were the occasional assignment errors, bad technique, but really most of the issue was he wasn't strong enough to stand up to the bull rush. probably 7 or 8 out of 10 of the problems he had this year were from bull rush.

His position coach could not coach him up during the season...and probably never will. Ogeebogee's best option is to get cut and be picked up by a team with a good O line coach.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-28-2017, 04:16 AM)Derrick Wrote: His position coach could not coach him up during the season...and probably never will. Ogeebogee's best option is to get cut and be picked up by a team with a good O line coach.

I'm not putting the fact that he has no lower body strength on PA.  He can't even move a safety.  No power in his gas can (butt and legs).  He may be "athletic" and has "great feet", but he is as weak as I have ever seen on our line and therefor, has no chance of being moved to guard as an option.  Complete bust.  

Torn rotator cuff at the end of the season?  Well, there goes his ability to strengthen his weak-ass.  Doesn't need surgery, just rest.  Great.  Sit around and do nothing....maybe you can actually be worse next year!  I doubt that is possible.

[John Shaft]

(01-25-2017, 08:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: How does that decision look now, with the recent Adam Jones news?  

Should have played WJIII and see what we have there, but at least Dennard did get some more snaps.  

Playing a 3/4 season long injured, rookie cornerback,  against NFL offenses  that are beyond mid-season form won't really show us what we have there. Cornerback position is difficult enough as it is.

[*SHRacerX*]

(01-28-2017, 05:26 PM)John Shaft Wrote: Playing a 3/4 season long injured, rookie cornerback,  against NFL offenses  that are beyond mid-season form won't really show us what we have there. Cornerback position is difficult enough as it is.

I disagree.  His injury was a torn bicep.  The Bengals could have used that experience to see how he could handle the outside role against NFL talent.  He had been able to attend coaching meetings, game plans, etc.  but he had no opportunities.  

Now, they could head in to next year having to ask him to start.  Is he JJoe or is he Dennard?  We won't know until the season begins.

[Jpoore]

(01-28-2017, 05:51 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I disagree.  His injury was a torn bicep.  The Bengals could have used that experience to see how he could handle the outside role against NFL talent.  He had been able to attend coaching meetings, game plans, etc.  but he had no opportunities.  

Now, they could head in to next year having to ask him to start.  Is he JJoe or is he Dennard?  We won't know until the season begins.

I get your thinking but let's be honest. They're not playing a rookie cb except against the Browns. He would have got as much playing time as Russell maybe a little more.