February post senior bowl mock

[Jpoore]

First one I traded back out of first round completely due to no elite prospects left in top 10. It is a more defensive mock. Both mocks I like. The graded are crap though.

Round 2 Pick 2 (S.F.): Dan Feeney, OG, Indiana (A-)
Round 2 Pick 9: Raekwon McMillan, ILB/OLB, Ohio State (B+)
Round 2 Pick 11 (PHI): Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson (B+)
Round 2 Pick 24 (OAK): Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (C-)
Round 3 Pick 2 (S.F.): Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia (A)
Round 3 Pick 9: Kevin King, CB, Washington (C+)
Round 3 Pick 10 (PHI): Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio (B+)
Round 3 Pick 37 (TENN): Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (C-)
Round 4 Pick 2 (S.F.): Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma (A+)
Round 4 Pick 9: Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 32: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (B)
Round 4 Pick 39: Ejuan Price, OLB, Pittsburgh (C+)
Round 5 Pick 9: Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota (C-)
Round 6 Pick 9: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A)
Round 6 Pick 33: Chad Kelly, QB, Ole Miss (A)
Round 6 Pick 36: Ben Boulware, ILB, Clemson (D)
Round 7 Pick 9: KD Cannon, WR, Baylor (A+)







Round 1 Pick 9: Mike Williams, WR, Clemson (A+)
Round 2 Pick 9: Pat Elflein, C/OG, Ohio State (B)
Round 3 Pick 9: Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (C+)
Round 4 Pick 9: Julien Davenport, OT, Bucknell (A)
Round 4 Pick 32: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (B)
Round 4 Pick 39: Ejuan Price, OLB, Pittsburgh (C+)
Round 5 Pick 9: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (A-)
Round 6 Pick 9: Stevie Tuikolovatu, DT, Southern California (B)
Round 6 Pick 33: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A+)
Round 6 Pick 36: Cooper Rush, QB, Central Michigan (D+)
Round 7 Pick 9: Ben Boulware, ILB, Clemson (D)

Don't hold back tell me what you think.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-06-2017, 03:40 AM)Jpoore Wrote: First one I traded back out of first round completely due to no elite prospects left in top 10. It is a more defensive mock. Both mocks I like. The graded are crap though.

Round 2 Pick 2 (S.F.): Dan Feeney, OG, Indiana (A-)
Round 2 Pick 9: Raekwon McMillan, ILB/OLB, Ohio State (B+)
Round 2 Pick 11 (PHI): Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson (B+)
Round 2 Pick 24 (OAK): Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (C-)
Round 3 Pick 2 (S.F.): Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia (A)
Round 3 Pick 9: Kevin King, CB, Washington (C+)
Round 3 Pick 10 (PHI): Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio (B+)
Round 3 Pick 37 (TENN): Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (C-)
Round 4 Pick 2 (S.F.): Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma (A+)
Round 4 Pick 9: Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 32: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (B)
Round 4 Pick 39: Ejuan Price, OLB, Pittsburgh (C+)
Round 5 Pick 9: Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota (C-)
Round 6 Pick 9: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A)
Round 6 Pick 33: Chad Kelly, QB, Ole Miss (A)
Round 6 Pick 36: Ben Boulware, ILB, Clemson (D)
Round 7 Pick 9: KD Cannon, WR, Baylor (A+)







Round 1 Pick 9: Mike Williams, WR, Clemson (A+)
Round 2 Pick 9: Pat Elflein, C/OG, Ohio State (B)
Round 3 Pick 9: Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (C+)
Round 4 Pick 9: Julien Davenport, OT, Bucknell (A)
Round 4 Pick 32: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (B)
Round 4 Pick 39: Ejuan Price, OLB, Pittsburgh (C+)
Round 5 Pick 9: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (A-)
Round 6 Pick 9: Stevie Tuikolovatu, DT, Southern California (B)
Round 6 Pick 33: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A+)
Round 6 Pick 36: Cooper Rush, QB, Central Michigan (D+)
Round 7 Pick 9: Ben Boulware, ILB, Clemson (D)

Don't hold back tell me what you think.

 
Who makes your list of elite prospects?

[Hammerstripes]

(02-06-2017, 03:40 AM)Jpoore Wrote: First one I traded back out of first round completely due to no elite prospects left in top 10. It is a more defensive mock. Both mocks I like. The graded are crap though.

Round 2 Pick 2 (S.F.): Dan Feeney, OG, Indiana (A-)
Round 2 Pick 9: Raekwon McMillan, ILB/OLB, Ohio State (B+)
Round 2 Pick 11 (PHI): Carlos Watkins, DT, Clemson (B+)
Round 2 Pick 24 (OAK): Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (C-)
Round 3 Pick 2 (S.F.): Tyler Orlosky, C, West Virginia (A)
Round 3 Pick 9: Kevin King, CB, Washington (C+)
Round 3 Pick 10 (PHI): Tarell Basham, DE, Ohio (B+)
Round 3 Pick 37 (TENN): Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (C-)
Round 4 Pick 2 (S.F.): Joe Mixon, RB, Oklahoma (A+)
Round 4 Pick 9: Chris Godwin, WR, Penn State (A+)
Round 4 Pick 32: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (B)
Round 4 Pick 39: Ejuan Price, OLB, Pittsburgh (C+)
Round 5 Pick 9: Jalen Myrick, CB, Minnesota (C-)
Round 6 Pick 9: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A)
Round 6 Pick 33: Chad Kelly, QB, Ole Miss (A)
Round 6 Pick 36: Ben Boulware, ILB, Clemson (D)
Round 7 Pick 9: KD Cannon, WR, Baylor (A+)







Round 1 Pick 9: Mike Williams, WR, Clemson (A+)
Round 2 Pick 9: Pat Elflein, C/OG, Ohio State (B)
Round 3 Pick 9: Tanoh Kpassagnon, DE, Villanova (C+)
Round 4 Pick 9: Julien Davenport, OT, Bucknell (A)
Round 4 Pick 32: Jake Butt, TE, Michigan (B)
Round 4 Pick 39: Ejuan Price, OLB, Pittsburgh (C+)
Round 5 Pick 9: John Johnson, FS, Boston College (A-)
Round 6 Pick 9: Stevie Tuikolovatu, DT, Southern California (B)
Round 6 Pick 33: Zane Gonzalez, K, Arizona State (A+)
Round 6 Pick 36: Cooper Rush, QB, Central Michigan (D+)
Round 7 Pick 9: Ben Boulware, ILB, Clemson (D)

Don't hold back tell me what you think.

In the first draft you basically wasted about 9 picks.  There is no way in hell that this team can bring in 17 new players without cutting some of the better guys on the roster.

[Jpoore]

(02-06-2017, 02:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote:  
Who makes your list of elite prospects?

Mike Williams
Myles Garrett
Jonathon Allen
Malik hooker
Jamal Adams
Ruebon foster(even though he's not worth top 10 he makes list)
Solomon Thomas
Dalvin cook

[Jpoore]

(02-06-2017, 11:17 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: In the first draft you basically wasted about 9 picks.  There is no way in hell that this team can bring in 17 new players without cutting some of the better guys on the roster.

Just off the top of my head I can think of Malaluga, pacman, hill, bodine, z,whit(hopefully we don't lose them but that's 2 more roster spots if we do) tj Johnson, hunt, sims, if I actually researched it I would find a couple more as well. Obviously if I traded out of the first I would get some high picks for next year, but that wouldn't help as mock games don't deal in next year.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-07-2017, 02:45 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Mike Williams
Myles Garrett
Jonathon Allen
Malik hooker
Jamal Adams
Ruebon foster(even though he's not worth top 10 he makes list)
Solomon Thomas
Dalvin cook

How can Allen make your elite list after you claimed you wouldn't draft him @ #9?

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2017, 02:45 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Mike Williams
Myles Garrett
Jonathon Allen
Malik hooker
Jamal Adams
Ruebon foster(even though he's not worth top 10 he makes list)
Solomon Thomas
Dalvin cook

I'm not seeing Leonard Fournette in that list. You don't consider Fournette an elite talent? I assume it's because you're worried about his ankles and heavy usage throughout high school and college?

I'd argue you have to have Leonard Fournette as an elite talent over Mike Williams.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-07-2017, 02:55 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Just off the top of my head I can think of Malaluga, pacman, hill, bodine, z,whit(hopefully we don't lose them but that's 2 more roster spots if we do) tj Johnson, hunt, sims, if I actually researched it I would find a couple more as well. Obviously if I traded out of the first I would get some high picks for next year, but that wouldn't help as mock games don't deal in next year.

Ok, you still have to cut 8 more.

[Jpoore]

(02-07-2017, 07:46 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How can Allen make your elite list after you claimed you wouldn't draft him @ #9?

His talent is elite. His shoulders surgiries is why I wouldn't draft him

[Jpoore]

(02-07-2017, 10:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not seeing Leonard Fournette in that list. You don't consider Fournette an elite talent? I assume it's because you're worried about his ankles and heavy usage throughout high school and college?

I'd argue you have to have Leonard Fournette as an elite talent over Mike Williams.

I don't see what most people see when it comes to fournettw. Also yeah ur correct about the ankles is why I don't have him in my top 9. But it's the position. Ankles matter a lot more as a rb than a neck injury as a wr. Also Williams proved that he was able to get past it. Fournette hasnt.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-07-2017, 03:14 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I don't see what most people see when it comes to fournettw. Also yeah ur correct about the ankles is why I don't have him in my top 9. But it's the position. Ankles matter a lot more as a rb than a neck injury as a wr. Also Williams proved that he was able to get past it. Fournette hasnt.

Well, go back and watch some more games of him then.  A player of that size with his speed and power is nearly unheard of.

He can run over people and run away from people.  He is no question an elite talent, but he also doesn't play a premium position in the NFL.  

[Hammerstripes]

(02-07-2017, 03:11 PM)Jpoore Wrote: His talent is elite. His shoulders surgiries is why I wouldn't draft him

Explain that.  If he hasn't had any production issues and doesn't miss games, then why is it an issue?  Makes no sense.

[Jpoore]

(02-07-2017, 04:43 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Explain that.  If he hasn't had any production issues and doesn't miss games, then why is it an issue?  Makes no sense.

my problem is he was going against college players. In the NFL he's gonna get him by big bad olineman.if he had 3 in college how many will he have in the NFL? I personally think he's gonna end up injured more than not. I realize he hasn't had any production issuez and would love it if he didn't have any from now on but are u willing to risk it? As I've said before interested to see what docs say 

[Jpoore]

(02-07-2017, 04:42 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Well, go back and watch some more games of him then.  A player of that size with his speed and power is nearly unheard of.

He can run over people and run away from people.  He is no question an elite talent, but he also doesn't play a premium position in the NFL.  

I remember Trent Richardson with the same comparable. My other problem is I can 99.9 % guarantee we don't go rb round 1 I think mixon is same comparable but better and faster . That said I've watched about half a seasontotal of fournette. I will say h more but I see Richardson is all I'm saying.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-07-2017, 03:11 PM)Jpoore Wrote: His talent is elite. His shoulders surgiries is why I wouldn't draft him

If you wouldn't draft him, he isn't elite. 

Tell me what is wrong with Allen's shoulders and how it affects his prognosis. Same with Fournette's ankles. Point is you don't know either for both players. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-07-2017, 03:14 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I don't see what most people see when it comes to fournettw. Also yeah ur correct about the ankles is why I don't have him in my top 9. But it's the position. Ankles matter a lot more as a rb than a neck injury as a wr. Also Williams proved that he was able to get past it. Fournette hasnt.

A broken neck "matters" regardless of position in any contact sport. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-07-2017, 05:01 PM)Jpoore Wrote: my problem is he was going against college players. In the NFL he's gonna get him by big bad olineman.if he had 3 in college how many will he have in the NFL? I personally think he's gonna end up injured more than not. I realize he hasn't had any production issuez and would love it if he didn't have any from now on but are u willing to risk it? As I've said before interested to see what docs say 

Coming out of college, Chris Perry didn't have an injury issue and Adrian Peterson did (specifically a shoulder issue) and look how that turned out. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-07-2017, 03:14 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I don't see what most people see when it comes to fournettw. Also yeah ur correct about the ankles is why I don't have him in my top 9. But it's the position. Ankles matter a lot more as a rb than a neck injury as a wr. Also Williams proved that he was able to get past it. Fournette hasnt.

Williams has proven he can get past the neck injury because it happened in early September 2015. He had an entire year to recover. Fournette's ankle problems were plaguing him in 2016 and he still continued to try and play. They may not be as "chronic" as some outlets have been speculating, and it could simply be he kept trying to play on tweaked ankles throughout the season when what he really needed was to give it at least a month or two to heal before trying to play again.

The fact a RB is being discussed at all in the top 10 means he is an elite talent at that position.
Nowadays, a WR being discussed for top 10 isn't nearly as rare as a potential RB in the top 10.
And when it comes to Williams, I think more like Laquon Treadwell or Keenan Allen. Williams has great size, but he's not extremely fast. He is expected to be in the low 4.5's, which is good for a WR his size, but only WRs like AJ Green, Julio Jones, and Sammy Watkins (athletic freaks) deserve to be considered elite talents. Heck, Odell Beckham was a better prospect than Williams is and he didn't get drafted until Pick 13.
Perhaps Williams has the ceiling of Dez Bryant. Bryant isn't the fastest WR (4.52 40), but he uses his size well and can high point the ball to make great catches. If a team considers Williams to become Dez Bryant, a pick in the top 10 of the draft is justified. If he's more like Treadwell or Keenan Allen, that's not worth a top 10 selection.

Bottom line is I think Fournette is a more elite talent than Williams.

[Jpoore]

(02-07-2017, 05:16 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If you wouldn't draft him, he isn't elite. 

Tell me what is wrong with Allen's shoulders and how it affects his prognosis. Same with Fournette's ankles. Point is you don't know either for both players. 

Saban is on record saying his injuries will flare up every now and then and that was in COLLEGE... how often is it gonna flare up in the NFL?

[Jpoore]

(02-07-2017, 05:45 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Williams has proven he can get past the neck injury because it happened in early September 2015. He had an entire year to recover. Fournette's ankle problems were plaguing him in 2016 and he still continued to try and play. They may not be as "chronic" as some outlets have been speculating, and it could simply be he kept trying to play on tweaked ankles throughout the season when what he really needed was to give it at least a month or two to heal before trying to play again.

The fact a RB is being discussed at all in the top 10 means he is an elite talent at that position.
Nowadays, a WR being discussed for top 10 isn't nearly as rare as a potential RB in the top 10.
And when it comes to Williams, I think more like Laquon Treadwell or Keenan Allen. Williams has great size, but he's not extremely fast. He is expected to be in the low 4.5's, which is good for a WR his size, but only WRs like AJ Green, Julio Jones, and Sammy Watkins (athletic freaks) deserve to be considered elite talents. Heck, Odell Beckham was a better prospect than Williams is and he didn't get drafted until Pick 13.
Perhaps Williams has the ceiling of Dez Bryant. Bryant isn't the fastest WR (4.52 40), but he uses his size well and can high point the ball to make great catches. If a team considers Williams to become Dez Bryant, a pick in the top 10 of the draft is justified. If he's more like Treadwell or Keenan Allen, that's not worth a top 10 selection.

Bottom line is I think Fournette is a more elite talent than Williams.

I haven't seen low 4.5s.... I've seen 4.48 as the most stable number. Ur telling me u wouldnt take aj green and Keenan Allen on the same team?? He's not tread well I didn't think treadwell should have gone until late second.