“Inflation Reduction” Act

[Dill]

(08-21-2022, 04:00 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They spent the sixties and seventies telling us not to. Weird reversal

??? The weirdness disappears when we look closely at the reasoning in each case.

One side asks that we hold gov. accountable when they are lying 

and the other when they are not. 

(Of course, I'm guessing who "they" is here, since they are unspecified.)

[*michaelsean*]

(08-22-2022, 03:17 PM)Dill Wrote: ??? The weirdness disappears when we look closely at the reasoning in each case.

One side asks that we hold gov. accountable when they are lying 

and the other when they are not. 

(Of course, I'm guessing who "they" is here, since they are unspecified.)

Ohhh. The whole saying is “Don’t trust ‘the man’ when you know he is lying”. Kinda obvious but sure that makes sense. (I left you a softball there just to be nice. )

You don’t really have to guess unless you forgot the topic of the thread.

[Mickeypoo]

(08-18-2022, 08:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The IRS isn't going to go after the "low hanging fruit." Doing so doesn't justify the existence of the agents as it would cost them more to go after the amounts owed. They will focus on the egregious ones. That has always been the way they do things.

Tell that to my good friend who got audited a few years ago because of the way he did his deductions on his small side business.  He was making around 50-60k at the time at his full time job and his side business was making around 10k a year. 

The audit almost bankrupted his family.  It was awful to watch.  The worst part was he was not deliberately trying to evade taxes.  He was just doing it wrong and never realized and over 5+ years it added up.  

The rich have accountants and lawyers.  People like my friend just get destroyed.

[Mickeypoo]

(08-20-2022, 06:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The vast majority of hires will not be LEOs. They will be auditors. They won't be carrying firearms, but calculators and red pens.

The auditors with the red pens just get the people to turn the gun on themselves.  The IRS, calculators and red pens are far more scary than guns.

[Belsnickel]

(08-24-2022, 01:31 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Tell that to my good friend who got audited a few years ago because of the way he did his deductions on his small side business.  He was making around 50-60k at the time at his full time job and his side business was making around 10k a year. 

The audit almost bankrupted his family.  It was awful to watch.  The worst part was he was not deliberately trying to evade taxes.  He was just doing it wrong and never realized and over 5+ years it added up.  

The rich have accountants and lawyers.  People like my friend just get destroyed.

Filing a business return will always garner more attention; that's a known quantity. It's unfortunate that it happened to him, but I tell everyone that if you are doing anything beyond the basic return it is good to speak with a pro. It is always worth the money.

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2022, 01:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Filing a business return will always garner more attention; that's a known quantity. It's unfortunate that it happened to him, but I tell everyone that if you are doing anything beyond the basic return it is good to speak with a pro. It is always worth the money.

My point was he was a little guy with a tiny little side business with no employees.  Just him.  

Making a whole combined total of 60-70k to support his wife and 2 kids.  They came and crushed him and it resulted in years of financial pain.  It was disgusting to watch.

The IRS has nothing better to do than crush a family for a 10k a year side business?  Ya, sorry, chalk me up to one of those crazy's not trusting in our Gov, at all, ever.

No offense and you are obviously a very smart guy, but forgive me for not believing for a nanosecond that the IRS is not going to go after small people like that.

The IRS got there money after all and they didn't have to deal with a lawyer (he couldn't afford one) or a team of lawyers to do it.

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2022, 01:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Filing a business return will always garner more attention; that's a known quantity. It's unfortunate that it happened to him, but I tell everyone that if you are doing anything beyond the basic return it is good to speak with a pro. It is always worth the money.

My cousin has a one man business and he gets professional help to file his, and I used to do my own but now I'm married and the wife and I each now have a small side income that requires the filing of an additional odd form.  I went from paying $0 to file my taxes to close to $400 for it, but peace of mind and all that. 

I will say that doing your own taxes and stuffing it up so badly that the IRS can take you to the cleaners because you accidentally broke the law is one of the times you can break the law and get a pass from your fellow citizen, though...I think?  I don't know.  I mean, all we do is complain that our taxes pay for stuff we don't want to pay for, so I guess people who don't throw their share in on their taxes should probably get lambasted too

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2022, 02:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: My cousin has a one man business and he gets professional help to file his, and I used to do my own but now I'm married and the wife and I each now have a small side income that requires the filing of an additional odd form.  I went from paying $0 to file my taxes to close to $400 for it, but peace of mind and all that. 

I will say that doing your own taxes and stuffing it up so badly that the IRS can take you to the cleaners because you accidentally broke the law is one of the times you can break the law and get a pass from your fellow citizen, though...I think?  I don't know.  I mean, all we do is complain that our taxes pay for stuff we don't want to pay for, so I guess people who don't throw their share in on their taxes should probably get lambasted too

Let me clear, I'm not excusing him for messing up.

The only reason I even replied was because someone posted the IRS doesn't go after the little guy.  They most certainly do and will most certainly do in the future with even more IRS peeps to crush the little man, imo.

Again, why would you go after the rich which means fighting lawyer/s and accountant/s and possible court date/s when you can go after people like my friend?

I would imagine in most cases the IRS might lose money even if they win if you factor in their man power time and lawyers fees.

All it took was one IRS agent and a few phone calls for them to get 10's of thousands from my friend.

[*Nately120*]

(08-24-2022, 02:18 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Let me clear, I'm not excusing him for messing up.

The only reason I even replied was because someone posted the IRS doesn't go after the little guy.  They most certainly do and will most certainly do in the future with even more IRS peeps to crush the little man, imo.

Again, why would you go after the rich which means fighting lawyer/s and accountant/s and possible court date/s when you can go after people like my friend?

I would imagine in most cases the IRS might lose money even if they win if you factor in their man power time and lawyers fees.

All it took was one IRS agent and a few phone calls for them to get 10's of thousands from my friend.

There is a political party that aims to reduce or eliminate the IRS and they get about 1% of the total vote.  We lie in the bed we made. 

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2022, 02:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: There is a political party that aims to reduce or eliminate the IRS and they get about 1% of the total vote.  We lie in the bed we made. 

imo, both parties are so corrupt, beholden to corps and to special interest groups they no longer care about the citizens.  The only reason they even pay attention to the citizens at all is because they are a necessary evil.  They need their votes.

Will be interesting to see where we end up.  We have almost complete division and the idiots on both sides of the isle care about nothing but destroying the other side and gaining power.

How long can that last before something catastrophically fails?

[Belsnickel]

(08-24-2022, 02:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: My cousin has a one man business and he gets professional help to file his, and I used to do my own but now I'm married and the wife and I each now have a small side income that requires the filing of an additional odd form.  I went from paying $0 to file my taxes to close to $400 for it, but peace of mind and all that. 

I will say that doing your own taxes and stuffing it up so badly that the IRS can take you to the cleaners because you accidentally broke the law is one of the times you can break the law and get a pass from your fellow citizen, though...I think?  I don't know.  I mean, all we do is complain that our taxes pay for stuff we don't want to pay for, so I guess people who don't throw their share in on their taxes should probably get lambasted too

Oh, I have sympathy for those that end up in those positions. I had the IRS come at me for an educational tax credit one time and I survived it because I knew what I was doing. I gave them so much on their pre-audit inquiry that they just gave up.

But not everyone is in that sort of position and I definitely get that. I don't even hold animosity towards those that use legal means to avoid paying taxes as much as possible. Go for it. It used to be my job to find those for my employer. My opinion, though, is that I am all for the government closing those loopholes as much as possible. But still no qualms about people who do those things. As long as you aren't intentionally breaking the law, it's all good.

I used to go to a yearly tax seminar to discuss changes to the field for the upcoming year. I would go to Richmond for two-and-a-half days and sit in a hotel conference room for 10-ish hours on each of those days to hear people talk about the changes to the tax code both federal and state levels. I would come away from that conference with a five-inch binder completely full of just the changes for the year. Not the code itself, just the changes. I can't fault anyone for getting lost in that mess.

(08-24-2022, 02:18 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Let me clear, I'm not excusing him for messing up.

The only reason I even replied was because someone posted the IRS doesn't go after the little guy.  They most certainly do and will most certainly do in the future with even more IRS peeps to crush the little man, imo.

Again, why would you go after the rich which means fighting lawyer/s and accountant/s and possible court date/s when you can go after people like my friend?

I would imagine in most cases the IRS might lose money even if they win if you factor in their man power time and lawyers fees.

All it took was one IRS agent and a few phone calls for them to get 10's of thousands from my friend.

I have to make sure it's clear that I specified that unless you don't pay any taxes or have a complicated return, the IRS is not going to bother with you in those lower income groups. Filing with a side business is a complicated return. Your anecdote proves my point.

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2022, 03:12 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I have sympathy for those that end up in those positions. I had the IRS come at me for an educational tax credit one time and I survived it because I knew what I was doing. I gave them so much on their pre-audit inquiry that they just gave up.

But not everyone is in that sort of position and I definitely get that. I don't even hold animosity towards those that use legal means to avoid paying taxes as much as possible. Go for it. It used to be my job to find those for my employer. My opinion, though, is that I am all for the government closing those loopholes as much as possible. But still no qualms about people who do those things. As long as you aren't intentionally breaking the law, it's all good.

I used to go to a yearly tax seminar to discuss changes to the field for the upcoming year. I would go to Richmond for two-and-a-half days and sit in a hotel conference room for 10-ish hours on each of those days to hear people talk about the changes to the tax code both federal and state levels. I would come away from that conference with a five-inch binder completely full of just the changes for the year. Not the code itself, just the changes. I can't fault anyone for getting lost in that mess.


I have to make sure it's clear that I specified that unless you don't pay any taxes or have a complicated return, the IRS is not going to bother with you in those lower income groups. Filing with a side business is a complicated return. Your anecdote proves my point.

And my point is that a 1 person 10k a year side business is 100% the littlest of the little guy.  They absolutely do and will go after the little guy.  And they couldn't care less about crushing them.

So I want to make sure I have this correct.  You are saying just a regular lower income person is almost certain to not be bothered by an audit, but that same person makes 5k a year on a side business and reports it wrong and they will come and destroy you.  Do I have that correct?  But they don't go after the little guy?

A gentle reminder from the kind and caring people at the IRS that if you don't comply they will come and steal everything you have worked for is usually enough for the little guy who can't afford a team of lawyers to pay whatever the IRS says you owe.

[Belsnickel]

(08-24-2022, 04:26 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: And my point is that a 1 person 10k a year side business is 100% the littlest of the little guy.  They absolutely do and will go after the little guy.  And they couldn't care less about crushing them.

So I want to make sure I have this correct.  You are saying just a regular lower income person is almost certain to not be bothered by an audit, but that same person makes 5k a year on a side business and reports it wrong and they will come and destroy you.  Do I have that correct?  But they don't go after the little guy?

A gentle reminder from the kind and caring people at the IRS that if you don't comply they will come and steal everything you have worked for is usually enough for the little guy who can't afford a team of lawyers to pay whatever the IRS says you owe.

Their role isn't to "destroy you." Quite frankly, I have always found the IRS to be friendly and helpful (when they know what they're talking about, which isn't always the case). Even when you owe back taxes and penalties, they will usually be quite happy to work out payment arrangements and do everything they can to make it easier on you.

Maybe this person you know got someone on a bad day. Maybe the person you know was a dick in some way, I don't know. All I know is the general way of things. The more complicated the return, the more scrutiny they get. The more cooperative you are with them, the more helpful they will be.