President Obama signs woman's chest at event!

[Dill]

(03-11-2019, 09:24 AM)GMDino Wrote: Wait, sorry...that was President Trump.  Because the Obama's were "classless". Forcursing and allowing their children to listen to rap among other things.

(03-11-2019, 09:45 AM)michaelsean Wrote: So we are allowed to bring up Obama?  Since I never called the Obama's classless, and said I feel he is probably a very good husband and father, I feel OK saying I don't care about this.  Could I see Reagan doing this?  Never, but this still ranks near the bottom of stuff I care about.

From a socio-historical perspective, I do see value in remembering and contrasting press treatment of presidents.

There is one sector of the press which uncritically circulated all manner of conspiracies and RUMORED crimes about Obama and the Clintons; and when these led to investigations which didn't pan out, this sector encouraged the narrative that they "got away with it."  Especially regarding the Clintons, we heard of one standard for them and another for everyone else. The MSM press was accused of "ignoring" stories when it dismissed rumors and conspiracies with no factual support.

Then when we get a president whose PUBLIC words and behavior embarrass the nation and justify daily criticism, this same sector of the media ascribes the criticism to "hate" and a desire of elites to unelect the people's choice. "Leftists" hate Trump because they hate America. They hate that he "revels" in his wealth and "never learned to keep his real opinions to himself."  (The divisive bigotry of those real opinions is apparently not a real problem in someone elected to represent the nation. ) https://outline.com/TFnHMu.  

In both cases, the evaluation of the president is separated from empirical grounding. The intended audience appears to measure the behavior of the actors involved largely on basis of press rhetoric about them, rather than on that grounding.  

[*michaelsean*]

(03-12-2019, 03:52 PM)Dill Wrote: From a socio-historical perspective, I do see value in remembering and contrasting press treatment of presidents.

There is one sector of the press which uncritically circulated all manner of conspiracies and RUMORED crimes about Obama and the Clintons; and when these led to investigations which didn't pan out, this sector encouraged the narrative that they "got away with it."  Especially regarding the Clintons, we heard of one standard for them and another for everyone else. The MSM press was accused of "ignoring" stories when it dismissed rumors and conspiracies with no factual support.

Then when we get a president whose PUBLIC words and behavior embarrass the nation and justify daily criticism, this same sector of the media ascribes the criticism to "hate" and a desire of elites to unelect the people's choice. "Leftists" hate Trump because they hate America. They hate that he "revels" in his wealth and "never learned to keep his real opinions to himself."  (The divisive bigotry of those real opinions is apparently not a real problem in someone elected to represent the nation. ) https://outline.com/TFnHMu.  

In both cases, the evaluation of the president is separated from empirical grounding. The intended audience appears to measure the behavior of the actors involved largely on basis of press rhetoric about them, rather than on that grounding.  

I'm not sure what you are saying here.  Are you saying the press is giving Trump a free pass?  You do realize we have an actual thread here about Trump's club championship right? And I'm pretty sure that wasn't Dino doing the reporting.  

Or are you hung up that right wing press criticized Obama and hold back on Trump?

[Dill]

(03-12-2019, 05:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm not sure what you are saying here.  Are you saying the press is giving Trump a free pass?  You do realize we have an actual thread here about Trump's club championship right? And I'm pretty sure that wasn't Dino doing the reporting.  

Or are you hung up that right wing press criticized Obama and hold back on Trump?

I would say one sector of the press is doing far more than giving Trump a free pass; it is advocating for him and his policies.  Another sector is doing its job, no matter who is president.

I'm hung up on stepping back and assessing how various sectors of the press respond to different presidents who have different agendas.

And my central focus is on the relation between claims and evidence for claims in journalism--whether these are linked primarily by logic or by rhetoric. That is the basis for my above comparison and conclusions.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-12-2019, 05:26 PM)Dill Wrote: I would say one sector of the press is doing far more than giving Trump a free pass; it is advocating for him and his policies.  Another sector is doing its job, no matter who is president.

I'm hung up on stepping back and assessing how various sectors of the press respond to different presidents who have different agendas.

And my central focus is on the relation between claims and evidence for claims in journalism--whether these are linked primarily by logic or by rhetoric. That is the basis for my above comparison and conclusions.

Yes right wing press will advocate for his policies.  I don't think there is any revelation here.  

No I think you are hung up on how one sector of the press responds to different Presidents who have different agendas.  

[Dill]

(03-12-2019, 05:42 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yes right wing press will advocate for his policies.  I don't think there is any revelation here.  

No I think you are hung up on how one sector of the press responds to different Presidents who have different agendas.  

I think I am hung up on how liberal democracies devolve into illiberal. 

That's why I am not comfortable with a sector of the news media not only advocating for a president's policies, but brainstorming policy with him, like an arm of the executive branch--even becoming a platform for launching and maintaining conspiracy theories about the president's opposition.

This would be of less concern if it were not effective enough to actually turn elections.  But it is.