86% of voters think Biden is too old for a 2nd term

[CJD]

(02-12-2024, 06:45 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think either are too old for the job.  I do think that Biden has dementia and I do think that Trump is a vindictive egomaniac.  Also, to be fair, using the information provided, a significantly larger number of people think Biden is too old vs. Trump.

Yep. In a randomly selected pool of people where Democrats generally think both are too old, Independents generally think both are too old and Republicans think one is too old, but the other isn't, the overall pool of people will feel that Biden is too old more than Trump.

As you alluded to, I think the question is very poorly worded. Age is not the problem. You can be 81 and sharp as a whip. It's not the age most people have an issue with for either candidate. It's the other stuff. The more important stuff.

[CJD]

(02-12-2024, 07:23 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sorry to have to agree with him, I've been saying this for quite a long time.  You're an intelligent man, have you not seen the shift in press coverage of Biden of late?  Even left leaning news outlets are starting to raise doubts about Biden's fitness.  This is a radical shift in tone from the recent past.  Why the change?

My best guess as to why is because it gets clicks and, to an extent, it is an honest assessment of him. If Trump does something wrong or is showing signs of mental ineptitude, most right wing news sources would do their best to hide it or not mention it, as it is not in the interest of their base. But, and this is just a generalization, people in the center and left generally don't like being lied to. They want a truthful interpretation of the news, even if it is unfavorable to a politician they like (or prefer in this case).

I don't think the shift in tone, if there even is one (I don't watch much mainstream news), has anything to do with a directive from on high that "we need to shift gears away from Biden."

It is not my belief that the media takes its keys from the DNC. I think they report what they think people will watch.

I remember when Biden was elected, people were talking about how he only ran to help backdoor a woman  of color into the presidency. That's why he said his VP must be a woman of color. That he'd be president for a year, maybe 2 and then would resign and Kamala would become the 47th president of the United States.

I remember when people were certain he'd be a 1 term president because he would choose to not even run for re-election.

Both of those beliefs have come and gone and he's still the only nominee with any level of pedigree.

The Democratic Party is a waste land. There are no Obamas or even any younger Bidens in the party at the moment. At least not with the clout required to run for president.

It would be absolute political suicide for the DNC to replace Biden, the man who beat the incumbent Trump (remember, incumbents have an inherent advantage, with Biden overcame in 2020), with a relative unknown with mere months before the election.

Trump lost the 2020 election by 7 million votes, and then he was at the center of an attempted insurrection (or whatever you would like to call it) and has been charged with 91 counts of various severity. He has shown his own degree of mental ineptitude as well, lest we all forget when he confused Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi when discussing January 6th (among many other mental lapses).

I don't know what it's like to be a person who looks at these two men and can't decide which one is worse, but if I mentally place myself in that person's shoes, I can't imagine they would be unwilling to vote for Trump in 2020 but then, after all the shit Trump has done and been through in the last 4 years, would suddenly be willing to vote for Trump again.

I think Trump's biggest hope is that the Independents become complacent and stay home on election day, so his faithful followers will be enough to get him re-elected.

But if the turnout is anywhere near 2020 levels, I can't imagine Trump could beat Biden, and I think that's what the DNC is banking on.

But we'll see. I have no idea who the Democrats would replace him with, but I'm 99% sure that person would be worse off in the election, especially if the DNC keeps it a secret all the way up to the nomination at the convention.

[*pally*]

(02-12-2024, 07:15 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Like I said, I have no idea why you are so convinced of this. It seems like you are just creating this idea out of whole cloth and imagination.

to be fair, Fox News and MAGA social media has been really pushing the idea of Michell Obama as the candidate so he's been hearing it from the "most trusted news channel"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-12-2024, 07:32 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: My best guess as to why is because it gets clicks and, to an extent, it is an honest assessment of him. If Trump does something wrong or is showing signs of mental ineptitude, most right wing news sources would do their best to hide it or not mention it, as it is not in the interest of their base. But, and this is just a generalization, people in the center and left generally don't like being lied to. They want a truthful interpretation of the news, even if it is unfavorable to a politician they like (or prefer in this case).

I don't think the shift in tone, if there even is one (I don't watch much mainstream news), has anything to do with a directive from on high that "we need to shift gears away from Biden."

I remember when Biden was elected, people were talking about how he only ran to help backdoor a woman  of color into the presidency. That's why he said his VP must be a woman of color. That he'd be president for a year, maybe 2 and then would resign and Kamala would become the 47th president of the United States.

I remember when people were certain he'd be a 1 term president because he would choose to not even run for re-election.

Both of those beliefs have come and gone and he's still the only nominee with any level of pedigree.

The Democratic Party is a waste land. There are no Obamas or even any younger Bidens in the party at the moment. At least not with the clout required to run for president.

It would be absolute political suicide for the DNC to replace Biden, the man who beat the incumbent Trump (remember, incumbents have an inherent advantage, with Biden overcame in 2020), with a relative unknown with mere months before the election.

Trump lost the 2020 election by 7 million votes, and then he was at the center of an attempted insurrection (or whatever you would like to call it) and has been charged with 91 counts of various severity. He has shown his own degree of mental ineptitude as well, lest we all forget when he confused Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi when discussing January 6th (among many other mental lapses).

I don't know what it's like to be a person who looks at these two men and can't decide which one is worse, but if I mentally place myself in that person's shoes, I can't imagine they would be unwilling to vote for Trump in 2020 but then, after all the shit Trump has done and been through in the last 4 years, would suddenly be willing to vote for Trump again.

I think Trump's biggest hope is that the Independents become complacent and stay home on election day, so his faithful followers will be enough to get him re-elected.

But if the turnout is anywhere near 2020 levels, I can't imagine Trump could beat Biden, and I think that's what the DNC is banking on.

But we'll see. I have no idea who the Democrats would replace him with, but I'm 99% sure that person would be worse off in the election, especially if the DNC keeps it a secret all the way up to the nomination at the convention.

You make some fair points regarding Biden and the other theories about his presidency.  We will, of course, see who ends up being correct.  As for Biden getting the same kind of support he did in 2020, I think you're off by quite a bit.  The economy isn't great and inflation has been insane during his presidency.  Whether it's his fault or not won't matter.  I do not live paycheck to paycheck and I have noticed a significant increase in my expenses on things such as groceries and gas.  I can only imagine how people who are living more hand to mouth are coping, much less feeling about voting for Biden again.  At the end of the day the threat of Trump is not tangible, in that it doesn't directly affect the every day lives of our fellow citizens.  There's going to be a significant number of people who will vote for Trump based on the perception of enjoying better economic times during his presidency.

[Luvnit2]

(02-12-2024, 07:33 PM)pally Wrote: to be fair, Fox News and MAGA social media has been really pushing the idea of Michell Obama as the candidate so he's been hearing it from the "most trusted news channel"

I thought you did not watch Fox nor follow MAGA social media. So, what is your source for them pushing hard for Obama (Michelle).

I have seen Vivek say it and I have seen many other say no way. They said she hates politics, but would be better option than Harris or Biden.

Please share what really pushing means in your world. As someone who watches Fox news a lot, all I see is Biden is not going to make it to the starting line for the party, his mind seems to be getting worse by the day and is scary a man who thinks he may still be the VP versus the POTUS is steering us through a Biden created crisis in the middle east and has the nuclear codes.

[Luvnit2]

(02-12-2024, 07:32 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: My best guess as to why is because it gets clicks and, to an extent, it is an honest assessment of him. If Trump does something wrong or is showing signs of mental ineptitude, most right wing news sources would do their best to hide it or not mention it, as it is not in the interest of their base. But, and this is just a generalization, people in the center and left generally don't like being lied to. They want a truthful interpretation of the news, even if it is unfavorable to a politician they like (or prefer in this case).

I don't think the shift in tone, if there even is one (I don't watch much mainstream news), has anything to do with a directive from on high that "we need to shift gears away from Biden."

It is not my belief that the media takes its keys from the DNC. I think they report what they think people will watch.

I remember when Biden was elected, people were talking about how he only ran to help backdoor a woman  of color into the presidency. That's why he said his VP must be a woman of color. That he'd be president for a year, maybe 2 and then would resign and Kamala would become the 47th president of the United States.

I remember when people were certain he'd be a 1 term president because he would choose to not even run for re-election.

Both of those beliefs have come and gone and he's still the only nominee with any level of pedigree.

The Democratic Party is a waste land. There are no Obamas or even any younger Bidens in the party at the moment. At least not with the clout required to run for president.

It would be absolute political suicide for the DNC to replace Biden, the man who beat the incumbent Trump (remember, incumbents have an inherent advantage, with Biden overcame in 2020), with a relative unknown with mere months before the election.

Trump lost the 2020 election by 7 million votes, and then he was at the center of an attempted insurrection (or whatever you would like to call it) and has been charged with 91 counts of various severity. He has shown his own degree of mental ineptitude as well, lest we all forget when he confused Nikki Haley with Nancy Pelosi when discussing January 6th (among many other mental lapses).

I don't know what it's like to be a person who looks at these two men and can't decide which one is worse, but if I mentally place myself in that person's shoes, I can't imagine they would be unwilling to vote for Trump in 2020 but then, after all the shit Trump has done and been through in the last 4 years, would suddenly be willing to vote for Trump again.

I think Trump's biggest hope is that the Independents become complacent and stay home on election day, so his faithful followers will be enough to get him re-elected.

But if the turnout is anywhere near 2020 levels, I can't imagine Trump could beat Biden, and I think that's what the DNC is banking on.

But we'll see. I have no idea who the Democrats would replace him with, but I'm 99% sure that person would be worse off in the election, especially if the DNC keeps it a secret all the way up to the nomination at the convention.

The popular vote is not how we determine the POTUS so no he did lose swing states by 7 millions votes.

He also seems to be losing his base while the Trump base is actually growing at Biden's expense.

[NATI BENGALS]

Holy shit. So I’m just learning this trick with numbers called mathematics (sp?). And you can actually use it to basically predict the future. So like 4 years from now, you can add (sp?) those to his current age to learn that Trump would be 81. Which is how old Biden is. Imagine that. So logically I’m assuming anyone pounding the table saying Biden is too old would say the same about Trump?

Or are we still avoiding logic?

[Belsnickel]

Either one, if elected, will become the oldest serving POTUS in our history. I live with someone Trump's age and when I tell you that the rapidness with which he took a downward turn in his health is amazing. When we moved my father-in-law up here, he was completely independent. Within two years he became incontinent and completely reliant on my wife and I to look after him, requiring a walker most days and a wheelchair on some others. He can't remember what we talked about 20 minutes ago. Seriously, this happened within two years.

Trump and Biden are both too old for the job. IDGAF what anyone says. Between my time working in nursing homes when I was younger and my time as a caregiver, now, I don't see how we should entrust the future of our country to another Boomer, let alone someone from the Silent Generation.

[NATI BENGALS]

(02-12-2024, 09:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Either one, if elected, will become the oldest serving POTUS in our history. I live with someone Trump's age and when I tell you that the rapidness with which he took a downward turn in his health is amazing. When we moved my father-in-law up here, he was completely independent. Within two years he became incontinent and completely reliant on my wife and I to look after him, requiring a walker most days and a wheelchair on some others. He can't remember what we talked about 20 minutes ago. Seriously, this happened within two years.

Trump and Biden are both too old for the job. IDGAF what anyone says. Between my time working in nursing homes when I was younger and my time as a caregiver, now, I don't see how we should entrust the future of our country to another Boomer, let alone someone from the Silent Generation.

Fingers crossed this is the straw that broke the camels back. And the end of the two party system.


Some of us can dream.

[Belsnickel]

(02-12-2024, 09:16 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Fingers crossed this is the straw that broke the camels back. And the end of the two party system.


Some of us can dream.

Nope. There has to be structural changes that would require those in power to give up some of their power. It will never happen.

[Luvnit2]

(02-12-2024, 08:32 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Holy shit. So I’m just learning this trick with numbers called mathematics (sp?). And you can actually use it to basically predict the future. So like 4 years from now, you can add (sp?) those to his current age to learn that Trump would be 81. Which is how old Biden is. Imagine that. So logically I’m assuming anyone pounding the table saying Biden is too old would say the same about Trump?

Or are we still avoiding logic?

It is not the age, I know a lot of very intelligent people in their 80's, the issue is it appears Biden has dementia. He did it again today, he messed up the names of King and Queen of Jordan reading off a teleprompter.

Biden can't speak for 5 minutes without making a mistake with a teleprompter. Trump does so many in person interviews, not scripted and he can speak for 30 or 45 minutes.
Sorry, Trump along Biden in a debate will be a very sad day for Democrats. It just shocks me bias so blinded to Joe's mental decline.

[Luvnit2]

(02-12-2024, 09:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Either one, if elected, will become the oldest serving POTUS in our history. I live with someone Trump's age and when I tell you that the rapidness with which he took a downward turn in his health is amazing. When we moved my father-in-law up here, he was completely independent. Within two years he became incontinent and completely reliant on my wife and I to look after him, requiring a walker most days and a wheelchair on some others. He can't remember what we talked about 20 minutes ago. Seriously, this happened within two years.

Trump and Biden are both too old for the job. IDGAF what anyone says. Between my time working in nursing homes when I was younger and my time as a caregiver, now, I don't see how we should entrust the future of our country to another Boomer, let alone someone from the Silent Generation.

Yes, it can happen rapidly. I pray the time you have left with your father-in-law has some great moments because sadly I know there will be many tough ones.

[CJD]

(02-12-2024, 07:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You make some fair points regarding Biden and the other theories about his presidency.  We will, of course, see who ends up being correct.  As for Biden getting the same kind of support he did in 2020, I think you're off by quite a bit.  The economy isn't great and inflation has been insane during his presidency.  Whether it's his fault or not won't matter.  I do not live paycheck to paycheck and I have noticed a significant increase in my expenses on things such as groceries and gas.  I can only imagine how people who are living more hand to mouth are coping, much less feeling about voting for Biden again.  At the end of the day the threat of Trump is not tangible, in that it doesn't directly affect the every day lives of our fellow citizens.  There's going to be a significant number of people who will vote for Trump based on the perception of enjoying better economic times during his presidency.

This may be my bias talking, but I feel like if you could stomach voting for Trump in 2020, you probably would have voted for him. Biden was not popular or seen as any kind of savior in 2020. He was just "not Trump."

And he's still "not Trump" in 2024.

Maybe the economy will make independents just not bother voting, which could result in Trump winning, but if we see record breaking turnout or near it, like we did in 2020, I think it will be entirely because of the same anti-Trump phenomenon as in 2020, considering he has gotten significantly worse since he lost the election.

Among single issue voters polled by NBC in November 2023, Protection of democracy and abortion are the top 2 most important issues for the 2024 election, and both of those issues heavily favor Biden.

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-democracy-abortion-are-top-priorities-single-issue-voters-rcna126225

I'm not saying Biden is a good candidate and I can't speak to exactly how the economy is doing. I have also noticed the increase of groceries, but I also noticed my 401k is sky rocketing. Inflation is down, and costs of goods usually lag behind that, so we'll see if grocery bills get better as the year goes on.

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2024, 11:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is not the age, I know a lot of very intelligent people in their 80's, the issue is it appears Biden has dementia. He did it again today, he messed up the names of King and Queen of Jordan reading off a teleprompter.

Biden can't speak for 5 minutes without making a mistake with a teleprompter. Trump does so many in person interviews, not scripted and he can speak for 30 or 45 minutes.

Trump botches stuff all the time, he just ignores it and or doubles down though.  There is video evidence of him mixing up Obama and Biden and when he realizes what he did he just adds that Obama really runs things, so he'd rather just blatantly lie than admit he made an error.  I don't even know what he was thinking when he got Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi mixed up.

Trump speaking for 30-45 minutes is only lucid and logical in the minds of people who have become completely numb to all the bullshit he spews.  So I guess we can say that Biden and Trump both say illogical things, but Trump has the confounding variable of being a man who constantly makes stuff up and says nonsense so it's harder to figure out if he's losing his mind or just on a usual rant of fantasy BS.

(02-12-2024, 11:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sorry, Trump along Biden in a debate will be a very sad day for Democrats. It just shocks me bias so blinded to Joe's mental decline.

I was promised this very thing before the 2020 election and it didn't pan out.  Anyways, Biden has declined sure, he just seems like the kind of guy who is more likely to let someone else talk him into doing something sane rather than doubling down on nonsense because he can't admit he misspoke.  Bar is low, yea.

[Belsnickel]

(02-13-2024, 02:09 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I was promised this very thing before the 2020 election and it didn't pan out.  Anyways, Biden has declined sure, he just seems like the kind of guy who is more likely to let someone else talk him into doing something sane rather than doubling down on nonsense because he can't admit he misspoke.  Bar is low, yea.

This, to me, is the most important part in all of this. I worry less about Trump the individual or Biden the individual than I do those around them. In Trump's first administration he was surround by people that helped temper him, they kept him from acting on those intrusive thoughts. We won't see that in a second Trump term. Instead of the GOP trying to surround him with their own they have now become the party of MAGA and have abandoned Republican principles.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-12-2024, 11:59 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This may be my bias talking, but I feel like if you could stomach voting for Trump in 2020, you probably would have voted for him. Biden was not popular or seen as any kind of savior in 2020. He was just "not Trump."

And he's still "not Trump" in 2024.

Maybe the economy will make independents just not bother voting, which could result in Trump winning, but if we see record breaking turnout or near it, like we did in 2020, I think it will be entirely because of the same anti-Trump phenomenon as in 2020, considering he has gotten significantly worse since he lost the election.

Among single issue voters polled by NBC in November 2023, Protection of democracy and abortion are the top 2 most important issues for the 2024 election, and both of those issues heavily favor Biden.

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/poll-democracy-abortion-are-top-priorities-single-issue-voters-rcna126225

Exactly how important are "single issue" voters?  Are they a sizeable voting block that reliably predict outcomes?  Not seeing inflation on that list has me thinking it's a bunch of bullshit.  

Quote:I'm not saying Biden is a good candidate and I can't speak to exactly how the economy is doing. I have also noticed the increase of groceries, but I also noticed my 401k is sky rocketing. Inflation is down, and costs of goods usually lag behind that, so we'll see if grocery bills get better as the year goes on.

Inflation is absolutely not down.  It's still far higher under Biden than it was under Trump.

Biden's average inflation rate is over double that of Trump's.  Saying inflation is down is like saying Biden produced jobs, when what really happened was an end to the pandemic lockdowns and boatloads of people returning to the workforce.  Saying inflation is down now is garbage propaganda, you're far too smart to buy that, or to be repeating it.

[Belsnickel]

(02-13-2024, 02:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Biden's average inflation rate is over double that of Trump's.  Saying inflation is down is like saying Biden produced jobs, when what really happened was an end to the pandemic lockdowns and boatloads of people returning to the workforce.  Saying inflation is down now is garbage propaganda, you're far too smart to buy that, or to be repeating it.

The inflation rate is lower than it was, which means inflation has slowed. There is the fact that our economic indicators are better than other G20 nations coming out of the pandemic. That didn't happen just by chance. There had to be policy levers pulled to make that work out.

Now, I always say that blaming or crediting an POTUS for an economy is idiotic, and it is, because they are a small piece of the puzzle. So not only is blame misplaced when it comes to the economy, it shouldn't even be blame to begin with.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-13-2024, 02:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The inflation rate is lower than it was, which means inflation has slowed. There is the fact that our economic indicators are better than other G20 nations coming out of the pandemic. That didn't happen just by chance. There had to be policy levers pulled to make that work out.

Now, I always say that blaming or crediting an POTUS for an economy is idiotic, and it is, because they are a small piece of the puzzle. So not only is blame misplaced when it comes to the economy, it shouldn't even be blame to begin with.

Yes, and we both agree on that.  We also both agree that it's routine and will happen regardless.  Saying inflation is down is true, but it is still far higher than it was under Trump.  Seeing as they are running against each other, again, the comparison is both fair and apt.  So Biden saying inflation is down is only true insofar as it's lower than it was at it's height under his leadership.  it's still far higher than Trumps, hence he must eat the blame for this, like every other POTUS ever.

[Luvnit2]

(02-13-2024, 02:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The inflation rate is lower than it was, which means inflation has slowed. There is the fact that our economic indicators are better than other G20 nations coming out of the pandemic. That didn't happen just by chance. There had to be policy levers pulled to make that work out.

Now, I always say that blaming or crediting an POTUS for an economy is idiotic, and it is, because they are a small piece of the puzzle. So not only is blame misplaced when it comes to the economy, it shouldn't even be blame to begin with.

Biden's energy policies to cater to the climate change group day 1 in office was a very bad decision. It led to a huge spike in inflation in 2021 and 2022. On the other hand Trump's policies led to near record low inflation led by 2 huge items, developing energy within the US which lowered gas prices which impacts all aspects of the economy. 2nd he lowered taxes for the lower and middle income giving them better buying power. The Biden policy decision had an immediate impact on gasoline prices rising thus the high inflation in 2021 and 2022.

Trump over 4 years had around 5% inflation or average of 1.25% a year. Biden is at 5.7% for his time in office or inflation up 17.1%. Inflation is improving versus Biden's highest inflation number in history, but projected to be 20% over 4 years or 5% average per year.


Sorry, decisions a POTUS make do impact inflation. For Bidenomics, it has been a horrible 4 years and people are not stupid. They are reminded every trip. to the grocery how high prices are now under Biden and can also remember how low prices were under Trump. Seriously, considering any Democrat will promote more climate change goals which will kill the economy in the future is a huge mistake.

Voters will need to answer a simple question come November, who do I trust with the economy? Is it Trump or is it a Democrat? Who do I trust with border security? Is it Trump or is it a Democrat?

[Luvnit2]

(02-13-2024, 02:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, and we both agree on that.  We also both agree that it's routine and will happen regardless.  Saying inflation is down is true, but it is still far higher than it was under Trump.  Seeing as they are running against each other, again, the comparison is both fair and apt.  So Biden saying inflation is down is only true insofar as it's lower than it was at it's height under his leadership.  it's still far higher than Trumps, hence he must eat the blame for this, like every other POTUS ever.

Spot on!

It amazes me people don't understand inflation accumulates. I just gave the numbers and the reasons as you stated why many voters like Trump over any Democratic nominee, Trump had a history of taming inflation with his policies, Biden has a horrible inflation history.