A SCOTUS Opening

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 02:58 PM)Dill Wrote:
I agree with you on this.  

But I think stopping "bad things" is what the impeachment was about. 

I disagree. The impeachment was about getting rid of Trump and not because he did "bad things" but because he was Trump and Democrats hate that he was elected.

Maybe if Democrats decided not to discuss impeachment or how to remove Trump from the White House from the moment he was elected, you could argue the impeachment was about the "bad things" Trump had done.

(09-22-2020, 02:58 PM)Dill Wrote: We can't stop "bad things" if we can't agree what they are, that they have occurred, that someone did them. And preventing agreement on that seems to have become a tactic.

This is definitely true. So, how do we change that? Me personally, I think if we could get the vast majority of media to be unbiased, or at the very least, to biased AGAINST those in power all the time, we might be able to start to get on the right track.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-22-2020, 03:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:

Man, Dana Gould looks old.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-23-2020, 12:45 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Man, Dana Gould looks old.

Constantly being outraged will do that to you.  Look at Patton Oswalt, he looks like he's aged twenty years in the past four.

[jj22]

The impeachment was because Trump was once again seeking help from another country (through blackmail) to help him personally win an election.

If a president can be impeached for lying about a blow job, then surely this is an impeachable offense.

But again, Americans will impeach a Democrat over a blowjob, and defend a Republican who not once but twice got caught seeking foreign assistance to attack our Democracy.

All is lost. American character is too far gone to fix the system. If only Trump would have gotten a blow job. Then again, we all know how Americans would have viewed that act with a Republican.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-23-2020, 12:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: The impeachment was because Trump was once again seeking help from another country (through blackmail) to help him personally win an election.

If a president can be impeached for lying about a blow job, then surely this is an impeachable offense.

But again, Americans will impeach a Democrat over a blowjob, and defend a Republican who not once but twice got caught seeking foreign assistance to attack our Democracy.

All is lost. American character is too far gone to fix the system. If only Trump would have gotten a blow job.

You must be fun at parties. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2020, 12:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: The impeachment was because Trump was once again seeking help from another country (through blackmail) to help him personally win an election.

If a president can be impeached for lying about a blow job, then surely this is an impeachable offense.

But again, Americans will impeach a Democrat over a blowjob, and defend a Republican who not once but twice got caught seeking foreign assistance to attack our Democracy.

All is lost. American character is too far gone to fix the system. If only Trump would have gotten a blow job. Then again, we all know how Americans would have viewed that act with a Republican.

How did you get so full of hate?

[jj22]

I do hate hypocrisy and indecency. I do hate those who brag about sexual assault, and work with foreign countries to attack our Democracy. I do hate those who attack our veterans, and disabled people, I do hate insecure egomaniacs, I do hate bully's that bully then when someone hits back cry's about how "unfair" they are treated, and I do hate those who con and take advantage of the poorly educated.

I know hating these things is frowned upon in todays society, but I just wasn't raised to think this type of character reflects our values, and I'll just have to be shamed for it but it doesn't reflect mine. I guess that's where my parents went so wrong and how I ended up so full of hate.

And just think I've messed around and made the same mistake with my kids. Hopefully they don't have to be full of hate of these new American values you guys have established, but it looks like they will.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-23-2020, 12:59 PM)jj22 Wrote: I do hate hypocrisy and indecency. I do hate those who brag about sexual assault, and work with foreign countries to attack our Democracy. I do hate those who attack our veterans, and disabled people, I do hate insecure egomaniacs,  I do hate bully's that bully then when someone hits back cry's about how "unfair" they are treated, and I do hate those who con and take advantage of the poorly educated.

I know hating these things is frowned upon in todays society, but I just wasn't raised to think this type of character reflects our values, and I'll just have to be shamed for it but it doesn't reflect mine.  I guess that's where my parents went so wrong and how I ended up so full of hate.

That's all fine, but you've made several statements that indicate your disdain, if not hatred, for anyone who votes GOP, which is about 46-47% of the entire electorate.  

[hollodero]

(09-23-2020, 12:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree. The impeachment was about getting rid of Trump and not because he did "bad things" but because he was Trump and Democrats hate that he was elected.

I can't follow the absoluteness of this stance. Trump did "bad things", after all, and I wonder how you could simply overlook that just by musing about the Democrat's motives instead.

I don't intend to be snarky, but imho it seems worth asking if you would have reacted the same way if Obama (or whatever dem president) had held up congressionally approved military aid to a country fighting a foe - while making clear that freeing that money is conditioned on producing dirt on the republican opponent. I have a feeling you would not focus so much on the critic's motives in said instance, even though they'd be just as big (every party hates having someone from the other party elected, after all).

[jj22]

(09-23-2020, 01:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's all fine, but you've made several statements that indicate your disdain, if not hatred, for anyone who votes GOP, which is about 46-47% of the entire electorate.  

Disappointment maybe. But I don't hate the person, I hate the values embraced and wanted for this country. I don't get your values or why you think certain character traits is electable, but I still converse with you and many Republicans. I don't hate you.

Maybe if it was fair I'd be okay with the American voters for it, but it isn't. Obama couldn't even wear a tan suit. Michelle was attacked for showing too much shoulder, (so imagine if she was a porn star with girl on girl action at that).

Even if it was fair tho, these are things I wouldn't accept from either party.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-23-2020, 01:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: Disappointment maybe. But I don't hate the person, I hate the values embraced and wanted for this country. I don't get your values or why you think certain character traits is electable, but I still converse with you and many Republicans. I don't hate you.

I'm not a Republican so I didn't think that anyways.

Quote:Maybe if it was fair I'd be okay with the American voters for it, but it isn't. Obama couldn't even wear a tan suit. Michelle was attacked for showing too much shoulder, (so imagine if she was a porn star with girl on girl action at that).

Even if it was fair tho, these are things I wouldn't accept from either party.

Fair is in the eye of the beholder.  Obama caught shit for some dumb things, but it was never anything other than words.  You're putting far too much stock into the squawking of a loud minority.

[CJD]

(09-23-2020, 11:52 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You just think you know the answer.

McConnell hasn't been up for reelection so I didn't vote for him after the move

I didn't vote GOP in the Presidential

As McConnell himself pointed out, the people re-elected the Republican majority in the Senate in 2016 and expanded it in 2018, despite McConnell's maneuver in 2016. This would appear to mean that the Republican voters either endorsed his denial of the seat or, at the very least, did not think it was worthy of Republicans losing the majority in the Senate.

Comparatively, the 2014 Senate elections were an absolute bloodbath for the Democrats, losing 9 seats and the majority following their nuclear option.

This is what JJ is referencing. 

Whether you personally voted for the GOP or any of its constituents due to McConnell's behavior is anecdotal, but ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

I recognize that JJ postured the question towards you, but their point was that of the Republican voting base as a whole.

Context would have revealed this to you, had you paid attention to it.

[CJD]

(09-23-2020, 12:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree. The impeachment was about getting rid of Trump and not because he did "bad things" but because he was Trump and Democrats hate that he was elected.

Maybe if Democrats decided not to discuss impeachment or how to remove Trump from the White House from the moment he was elected, you could argue the impeachment was about the "bad things" Trump had done.


This is definitely true. So, how do we change that? Me personally, I think if we could get the vast majority of media to be unbiased, or at the very least, to biased AGAINST those in power all the time, we might be able to start to get on the right track.

I think Democrats spoke about wanting to impeach Trump from the beginning of his presidency because it was so blatantly obvious that he was not fit for the job, even before he was elected. Essentially as soon as he was elected, there were scandals and firings and chaos in the White House daily. 

It was heavily covered in the media but, for the most part, very little was done about it because, you know, the economy was fine. Trump hadn't done anything to screw that up to that point so most people were just happy to ***** and moan about how stupid he is and how bad he makes Americans look on a global stage.

It wasn't until he actually did something verifiably wrong that they impeached him.

And now we're mired in a pandemic that was going to be bad no matter who was President, but has only been magnified by Trump's incompetence and ego centric behavior.

I don't know how many lives would have been saved if Mike Pence was President from February on. No one has a time machine and can go back and see the branching timeline with Pence as president. But he'd be hard pressed to do a worse job than Trump.

This is the incompetence that the left and Democrats have been warning everyone about with Trump since 2015. It's just a shame that this was how we had to find out.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2020, 01:06 PM)hollodero Wrote: I can't follow the absoluteness of this stance. Trump did "bad things", after all, and I wonder how you could simply overlook that just by musing about the Democrat's motives instead.

I'm not overlooking the "bad things" Trump did. I'm saying they were not impeachable offenses. IIRC, Trump committed no crimes (as President). 

[Belsnickel]

(09-23-2020, 02:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not overlooking the "bad things" Trump did. I'm saying they were not impeachable offenses. IIRC, Trump committed no crimes (as President). 

Violating the criminal code is not a requirement for impeachment.

[CJD]

(09-23-2020, 02:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not overlooking the "bad things" Trump did. I'm saying they were not impeachable offenses. IIRC, Trump committed no crimes (as President). 

I know it's a bit silly to reference Lindsay Graham quotes now, since he has already proven that he's a hypocrite of the highest order with his past remarks on the Supreme Court versus what he is saying now, but he made it very clear back in 1999 that you don't have to commit a crime to be worthy of impeachment.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2020, 01:59 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think Democrats spoke about wanting to impeach Trump from the beginning of his presidency because it was so blatantly obvious that he was not fit for the job

That's a bullshit reason. No, he was no career politician, but that doesn't mean he wasn't fit for the job. There was no reason to talk IMPEACHMENT on the day he was elected president. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-23-2020, 02:03 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Violating the criminal code is not a requirement for impeachment.

No, it's not. But, he still didn't commit an impeachable offense.

[Belsnickel]

(09-23-2020, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not. But, he still didn't commit an impeachable offense.

When looking at what the term "high crimes and misdemeanors" means in the contemporary context of the Constitution, I vociferously disagree.

[hollodero]

(09-23-2020, 02:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not overlooking the "bad things" Trump did. I'm saying they were not impeachable offenses.

That seems like a matter of perspective, including with constitutional scholars. It it's impeachable is a political question, not one that can objectively be answered so easily.
You did give a "he was impeached because the dems just hate the guy" explanation - which is probably quite true, for sure, but does in no way refute that he did something quite wrong regarding this whole Ukraine situation.

(09-23-2020, 02:02 PM)PhilHos Wrote: IIRC, Trump committed no crimes (as President). 

Hm. I kinda disagree. For example he did order McGahn to falsify the record, he arguably lied to Mueller in his written responses (eg he appears to actually have talked to Stone about wikileaks), he ordered Mnuchin to disregard the law regarding his tax records, he asked/pressured Comey to let Flynn go, he (imho quite demonstrably) held back military aid to Ukraine without being authorized to do so. Then there's these Hatch act violations (like having a convention in the WH); there's things that might be a bit more murky, like his doubling the fees for his now presidential golf course or letting Pence and staff reside in a Trump Hotel in Ireland or renting rooms to diplomats, or that whole Qatar story (where imho Quataris were pressured to buy a scyscraper from Kushner). Also, he and his AG have the tendency to simply remove investigators that look into possible other Trump world misdeeds, so in many cases there is no real investigation into some very shady and potentially criminal stuff. As of now he has no legal conviction, that much is true.

Personally, I also feel blatantly lieing to the American people about matters of high and highest national security interest - like Russians influencing the election or claiming "wide-spread voter fraud" orchestrated by Dems and the deep state - or about the coronavirus borders criminality or at least impeachable offenses too, but this cannot be part of an official list. Still I wonder how anyone could be just chill about that.