Ahmed Mohamed and his family will move to Qatar

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-22-2015, 12:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: If you read the majority of the posts here lately and come away with an "we are all adults here" mentality; then, I question your judgment. 

This is not the smack forum. There is absolutely no reason to attack a poster; except, they made you mad.

I discuss politics and religion with real folk and name calling or personal belittlement  is never exchanged.

As to the rest of your post exhibit A. 

Yes, you never belittle anyone except during your first sentence of your post.  

[*bfine32*]

(10-22-2015, 12:48 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Yes, you never belittle anyone except during your first sentence of your post.  

Not sure where I have absolved myself from anything.

I just chose not to single any one person out. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-22-2015, 12:51 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure where I have absolved myself from anything.

Here . . .

(10-21-2015, 09:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But I lay the majority of the blame on the Mods.

Yeah, you admit you're a little to blame, but really you think it is the moderators fault for allowing you to belittle people like I just showed you you did while complaining it's mainly the moderators fault.

[*bfine32*]

(10-22-2015, 01:01 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Here . . .


Yeah, you admit you're a little to blame, but really you think it is the moderators fault for allowing you to belittle people like I just showed you you did while complaining it's mainly the moderators fault.

Yes, I think the moderators are to mostly blame for the conduct allowed to be displayed in the forum (not sure how that absolved anyone).

Not a complaint, just an observation.

Do you have any observations that are not directed at one person? 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-22-2015, 01:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes, I think the moderators are to mostly blame for the conduct allowed to be displayed in the forum (not sure how that absolved anyone).

Not a complaint, just an observation.

Do you have any observations that are not directed at one person? 

It's called a "case study."  By examining your conduct we can reach a conclusion which can be applied on a larger scale.

Once again, the moderators didn't force you to insult SSF's intelligence just a few short posts ago.  You chose to do that on your own.  After you complained the moderators were mostly to blame for actions like you just participated in.  The moderators aren't to blame for something you chose to do of your own free volition.

Look, this is an argument you can't win.  You can quit now.  Or you can quit later.

[*bfine32*]

(10-22-2015, 01:19 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: It's called a "case study."  By examining your conduct we can reach a conclusion which can be applied on a larger scale.

Once again, the moderators didn't force you to insult SSF's intelligence just a few short posts ago.  You chose to do that on your own.  After you complained the moderators were mostly to blame for actions like you just participated in.  The moderators aren't to blame for something you chose to do of your own free volition.

Look, this is an argument you can't win.  You can quit now.  Or you can quit later.

At no time have I blamed a moderator for anyone's action

bfine32 Wrote:Do you have any observations that are not directed at one person?

Suppose not. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-22-2015, 01:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: At no time have I blamed a moderator for anyone's action

We are all responsible for our own actions, our own posts.  So how is it you mainly blame the moderators for our individual actions the moderators aren't responsible for?  Hmm?

Quote:Suppose not. 

Stop misplacing blame and watch how quickly I stop making observations about you.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-21-2015, 09:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is because the culture has changed. Rep is now given more freely for personal attacks than it is for salient points. It has become the epitome of ad hominem. If I can make you look silly then no one will take your point of view seriously.

 
Everyone in this forum is to blame to an extent. As a quote from one of my all time favorite movies goes: “Yeah, It stinks bad. And we all covered up in it too. Ain't nobody clean.”
 
But I lay the majority of the blame on the Mods. From jump I said it was a bad idea to have the inmates run the asylum.  I actually think you realized this when you stepped down as PR Mod; claiming work load. Then the decision was made “no PR Mod required” we can police ourselves. Well consider this one of those policing.
 
I have sworn off this forum; although, I get a laugh looking at it from time to time. In my brief exodus, I have received more than 1 PM asking for my return and this from mature poster(s) that I seldom see eye to eye with on subjects.
 
This forum needs strong moderation (either externally or internally) and the first time a person goes after the poster instead of the post, that poster needs to be shut down. Unfortunately we won’t do that internally especialy if someone we “disagree with” is getting personally insulted. 

By "goes after" do you mean insulting someone's intelligence like this . . .

(10-22-2015, 12:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: If you read the majority of the posts here lately and come away with an "we are all adults here" mentality; then, I question your judgment. 

This is not the smack forum. There is absolutely no reason to attack a poster; except, they made you mad.

I discuss politics and religion with real folk and name calling or personal belittlement  is never exchanged.

As to the rest of your post exhibit A. 

Do you know what, bfine?  This is not the smack forum.  There is absolutely no reason to insult SSF; except, he made you mad.

You discuss politics and religion with real folk here and you belittle others so frequently you don't even realize you just engaged in the very behavior you're condemning.  And yet, inexplicibly, you mainly blame the moderators for your behavior.  Instead of blaming the moderators for not censoring you while you exercise your 1st Amendment right to free speech, maybe you could moderater yourself and save the belly aching.  Or aren't you strong enough to moderate yourself?



Again, you can quit now . . . or later.

[xxlt]

(10-22-2015, 04:18 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: By "goes after" do you mean insulting someone's intelligence like this . . .



Do you know what, bfine?  This is not the smack forum.  There is absolutely no reason to insult SSF; except, he made you mad.

You discuss politics and religion with real folk here and you belittle others so frequently you don't even realize you just engaged in the very behavior you're condemning.  And yet, inexplicibly, you mainly blame the moderators for your behavior.  Instead of blaming the moderators for not censoring you while you exercise your 1st Amendment right to free speech, maybe you could moderater yourself and save the belly aching.  Or aren't you strong enough to moderate yourself?



Again, you can quit now . . . or later.

I think back in the day they used to call this "pwning" someone.

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-21-2015, 09:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It is because the culture has changed. Rep is now given more freely for personal attacks than it is for salient points. It has become the epitome of ad hominem. If I can make you look silly then no one will take your point of view seriously.

 
Everyone in this forum is to blame to an extent. As a quote from one of my all time favorite movies goes: “Yeah, It stinks bad. And we all covered up in it too. Ain't nobody clean.”
 
But I lay the majority of the blame on the Mods. From jump I said it was a bad idea to have the inmates run the asylum.  I actually think you realized this when you stepped down as PR Mod; claiming work load. Then the decision was made “no PR Mod required” we can police ourselves. Well consider this one of those policing.
 
I have sworn off this forum; although, I get a laugh looking at it from time to time. In my brief exodus, I have received more than 1 PM asking for my return and this from mature poster(s) that I seldom see eye to eye with on subjects.
 
This forum needs strong moderation (either externally or internally) and the first time a person goes after the poster instead of the post, that poster needs to be shut down. Unfortunately we won’t do that internally especialy if someone we “disagree with” is getting personally insulted. 

You talk as if you have ever--and I seriously mean ever--contributed anything valuable to the PnR board. All you ever did was split hairs, insult, strawman, occasionally evangelize, and troll. And you now pretending to be some kind of anti-ad hominem crusader is probably the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. Nobody feels sorry that you didn't get away with using an alt to troll.


I think you're making the right decision in avoiding PnR. You should go back to doing it.

[BmorePat87]

The whole "don't attack the person" line is crap when you're throwing it around after someone is called out for being homophobic or racist.

If Lucie keeps posting racist things, calling him a racist in response to it isn't a personal attack. I know it's the internet, but socially unacceptable rhetoric will be addressed the same way here as it would be in person. If you want an internet community that is ok with it, go to the Stormfront forums or something.

[djs7685]

(10-22-2015, 09:08 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The whole "don't attack the person" line is crap when you're throwing it around after someone is called out for being homophobic or racist.

If Lucie keeps posting racist things, calling him a racist in response to it isn't a personal attack. I know it's the internet, but socially unacceptable rhetoric will be addressed the same way here as it would be in person. If you want an internet community that is ok with it, go to the Stormfront forums or something.

Yep, the entire "I can say things that will obviously offend hundreds of thousands of people but you can't say a word about me personally" is ridiculous.

Also amusing how the guy that posts snarky one liners, rarely with any substance whatsoever, seems to be the most adamant person on the boards on "focus on the post and not the poster". Well guess what? The poster is MAKING the post, and this is a subforum dealing with political and religious opinions. The poster has as much to do with it as the post's substance in some arguments (especially when the post has zero substance, then what are we supposed to comment on??). Things that each person has said in the past can greatly affect the outcome of a discussion on a given topic.

Lucie is a lot easier to deal with once you realize that he's saying a lot of the stuff he does for shock value and to get people riled up purposely. IMO, he should be told to stop that though, I've asked him in the past to refrain from the racial slurs but he's welcome to his opinions, and he did actually stop for a short period of time. He's back to calling entire nations "savages" and whatnot though, and it's ridiculous to say that it shouldn't be called out.

Between some people not helping themselves from having alts to others using offensive slurs, it seems that the "omg stop attacking me" is coming from the side that very well deserves their personalities to be questioned. If you notice, Patrick doesn't have to cry for people to stop attacking him, and that's because he isn't doing something ridiculous that puts his character into question. Those that regularly get "attacked" should maybe take note and think that they're the common denominator and that maybe, just MAYBE they're doing something they should refrain from doing. Snarky one liners and racial slurs are a quick way to get "attacked". Either realize that or don't and keep playing the victim, I can't force anyone to understand these things.

[GodHatesBengals]

djs7685 Wrote:Yep, the entire "I can say things that will obviously offend hundreds of thousands of people but you can't say a word about me personally" is ridiculous.

Also amusing how the guy that posts snarky one liners, rarely with any substance whatsoever, seems to be the most adamant person on the boards on "focus on the post and not the poster". Well guess what? The poster is MAKING the post, and this is a subforum dealing with political and religious opinions. The poster has as much to do with it as the post's substance in some arguments (especially when the post has zero substance, then what are we supposed to comment on??). Things that each person has said in the past can greatly affect the outcome of a discussion on a given topic.

Lucie is a lot easier to deal with once you realize that he's saying a lot of the stuff he does for shock value and to get people riled up purposely. IMO, he should be told to stop that though, I've asked him in the past to refrain from the racial slurs but he's welcome to his opinions, and he did actually stop for a short period of time. He's back to calling entire nations "savages" and whatnot though, and it's ridiculous to say that it shouldn't be called out.

Between some people not helping themselves from having alts to others using offensive slurs, it seems that the "omg stop attacking me" is coming from the side that very well deserves their personalities to be questioned. If you notice, Patrick doesn't have to cry for people to stop attacking him, and that's because he isn't doing something ridiculous that puts his character into question. Those that regularly get "attacked" should maybe take note and think that they're the common denominator and that maybe, just MAYBE they're doing something they should refrain from doing. Snarky one liners and racial slurs are a quick way to get "attacked". Either realize that or don't and keep playing the victim, I can't force anyone to understand these things.

Good post.

One of the problems is that the concept of an ad hominem attack is something that bfine specifically doesn't seem to actually understand. Correctly pointing out the fact that he got caught using an alt is not in and of its self a fallacy. Now, if bfine said "The grass is green", and I responded by saying "Bfine is wrong that the grass is green because he uses an alt", then that would be an hominem fallacy. But of course, I've done nothing of the sort, and I don't think anybody else has either.

Also, great point about having nothing else to discuss but personality when somebody doesn't post anything of substance. Posts that are nothing but one-liners saying things like "When did I specifically, exactly, word-for-word say precisely what you just didn't even claim I said?" are pretty much begging for somebody to point out that you're being dim.

If you want someone to argue a point with you, you have to actually make one first, something bfine/King Poster rarely if ever did.

[BmorePat87]

(10-22-2015, 09:20 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Yep, the entire "I can say things that will obviously offend hundreds of thousands of people but you can't say a word about me personally" is ridiculous.

Also amusing how the guy that posts snarky one liners, rarely with any substance whatsoever, seems to be the most adamant person on the boards on "focus on the post and not the poster". Well guess what? The poster is MAKING the post, and this is a subforum dealing with political and religious opinions. The poster has as much to do with it as the post's substance in some arguments (especially when the post has zero substance, then what are we supposed to comment on??). Things that each person has said in the past can greatly affect the outcome of a discussion on a given topic.

Lucie is a lot easier to deal with once you realize that he's saying a lot of the stuff he does for shock value and to get people riled up purposely. IMO, he should be told to stop that though, I've asked him in the past to refrain from the racial slurs but he's welcome to his opinions, and he did actually stop for a short period of time. He's back to calling entire nations "savages" and whatnot though, and it's ridiculous to say that it shouldn't be called out.

Between some people not helping themselves from having alts to others using offensive slurs, it seems that the "omg stop attacking me" is coming from the side that very well deserves their personalities to be questioned. If you notice, Patrick doesn't have to cry for people to stop attacking him, and that's because he isn't doing something ridiculous that puts his character into question. Those that regularly get "attacked" should maybe take note and think that they're the common denominator and that maybe, just MAYBE they're doing something they should refrain from doing. Snarky one liners and racial slurs are a quick way to get "attacked". Either realize that or don't and keep playing the victim, I can't force anyone to understand these things.

I remember when we had to address this in the board's infancy. He made a thread title with the word "*****" in it. It was deemed ok since it was a direct quote from the source (since they referred to them as that) and it wasn't directed at anyone here. So I made a thread saying "sheriff refuses to apologize to our n-word (wrote it but added * for the vowels) president" since the sheriff from the story called Obama the n-word. 

It's ok to attack a whole class of people... as long as you don't single out someone here. We have all crossed the line at some point when talking to someone, but the majority of us have never been openly racist or homophobic, and, if we were, would never expect others to just accept it as a point of view that deserves consideration.