Analytics are BS

[swilson3828]

....as shown by Harbaugh tonight with the Ravens against the Squealers. Going with analytics possibly cost the Ravens the game and home field advantage in the playoffs. Common sense says you take the tie and play overtime. Instead Harbaugh goes for the win based on analytics. Anyone and everyone can say the play was there but it was messed up, that Jackson missed the receiver, but the reality is the attempt failed and it might end up costing the Ravens (and the Bengals) dearly. Just use common damn sense when deciding the play. I've seern analytics cause more harm this year than good in both professional and college.

[*bfine32*]

(12-06-2021, 12:42 AM)swilson3828 Wrote: ....as shown by Harbaugh tonight with the Ravens against the Squealers.  Going with analytics possibly cost the Ravens the game and home field advantage in the playoffs.  Common sense says you take the tie and play overtime.  Instead Harbaugh goes for the win based on analytics. Anyone and everyone can say the play was there but it was messed up, that Jackson missed the receiver, but the reality is the attempt failed and it might end up costing the Ravens (and the Bengals) dearly.  Just use common damn sense when deciding the play.  I've seern analytics cause more harm this year than good in both professional and college.

Well no one can blame Harbaugh for "playing not to lose"; that's frowned upon around here.

I never really understand why folks don't like it, but they do. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-06-2021, 12:42 AM)swilson3828 Wrote: ....as shown by Harbaugh tonight with the Ravens against the Squealers. Going with analytics possibly cost the Ravens the game and home field advantage in the playoffs. Common sense says you take the tie and play overtime. Instead Harbaugh goes for the win based on analytics. Anyone and everyone can say the play was there but it was messed up, that Jackson missed the receiver, but the reality is the attempt failed and it might end up costing the Ravens (and the Bengals) dearly. Just use common damn sense when deciding the play. I've seern analytics cause more harm this year than good in both professional and college.

It actually helped the Bengals. Kept us only one game back in the division. And with how bunched up the AFC is that might be our only path to the playoffs.

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2021, 12:42 AM)swilson3828 Wrote: ....as shown by Harbaugh tonight with the Ravens against the Squealers.  Going with analytics possibly cost the Ravens the game and home field advantage in the playoffs.  Common sense says you take the tie and play overtime.  Instead Harbaugh goes for the win based on analytics. Anyone and everyone can say the play was there but it was messed up, that Jackson missed the receiver, but the reality is the attempt failed and it might end up costing the Ravens (and the Bengals) dearly.  Just use common damn sense when deciding the play.  I've seern analytics cause more harm this year than good in both professional and college.

I have never really considered a decision in that situation to go for two to be based on analytics.

[KillerGoose]

(12-06-2021, 12:42 AM)swilson3828 Wrote: ....as shown by Harbaugh tonight with the Ravens against the Squealers. Going with analytics possibly cost the Ravens the game and home field advantage in the playoffs. Common sense says you take the tie and play overtime. Instead Harbaugh goes for the win based on analytics. Anyone and everyone can say the play was there but it was messed up, that Jackson missed the receiver, but the reality is the attempt failed and it might end up costing the Ravens (and the Bengals) dearly. Just use common damn sense when deciding the play. I've seern analytics cause more harm this year than good in both professional and college.

This is spoken like someone who is completely ignorant on the subject they are trying to say is ‘BS’. Analytics are simply a tool and are not some all governing guideline. Analytical approaches to fourth down decisions and conversions are significantly more aggressive than what ‘common sense’ would tell you, and the league is slowly trending in this direction. The league should be more aggressive in those situations. Common sense would say if you are at the opponents 48 and have a 4th and 2, you should probably punt and play defense. An analytical decision will tell you to strongly consider going for it because you will convert a 4th and 2 more often than not.

On top of that, the reason why this post is silly is because analytics are involved in every aspect of the game. Analytics are heavily involved in offensive game plans and playcalling. You have, quite literally, not seen analytics do more harm than good because analytics are a major part of offensive attacks throughout the league.

There was also an example of an analytical decision in todays game. Instead of kicking the FG early, the Chargers went for it on 4th down near the goal line - and scored. Again, they are just a tool and not meant to be followed religiously, but teams are lining up more and more with what these guidelines suggest, because they work.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is it even certain that Harbaugh made this choice because of "analytics"?

[wildcatnku24]

(12-06-2021, 01:25 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: Is it even certain that Harbaugh made this choice because of "analytics"?

He made the choice because he had no healthy corners left.  tying it and continuing was certain defeat.  That said, it's rare that I don't hate a Steelers win.  This keeps us in the hunt!  

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If the decision wasn't analytics inspired, then this thread would be a great example of a growing phenomenon that we could all agree to just put a stop to:

"If I don't immediately appreciate the logic of a coaching decision during a game, it was because the coach followed the 'analytics' instead of the common sense approach that has worked for decades!"

This mindset can be destroyed. Goodbye. See ya. Deuces. Later gator.

[Whatever]

(12-06-2021, 01:25 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: Is it even certain that Harbaugh made this choice because of "analytics"?

Harbaugh said in the post game presser that they went for it because they were so short handed at CB that they probably could not have gotten a stop in OT.  

[Au165]

Fun fact, the NT was lined up in the neutral zone pretty badly on that play and they should have gotten another shot.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-06-2021, 01:35 AM)Au165 Wrote: Fun fact, the NT was lined up in the neutral zone pretty badly on that play and they should have gotten another shot.

Indeed, saw that blatantly.

Oh well, it helps us, so not miffed lol.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Analytics should not be all end all. Just because the 4th down decison by the Chargers worked doesn't mean it was correct.

[KillerGoose]

(12-06-2021, 11:45 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Analytics should not be all end all. Just because the 4th down decison by the Chargers worked doesn't mean it was correct.

This is more curiosity than anything. What do you believe constitutes a correct decision? 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(12-06-2021, 11:47 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is more curiosity than anything. What do you believe constitutes a correct decision? 

I watch many games these decisions by coaches including our own not taking points can cause you to chase those points the remainder of the game.

[KillerGoose]

(12-06-2021, 11:52 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I watch many games these decisions by coaches including our own not taking points can cause you to chase those points the remainder of the game.

That doesn't answer my question. What do you think constitutes a correct decision? 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(12-06-2021, 11:53 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: That doesn't answer my question. What do you think constitutes a correct decision? 

down distance score field position time remaining in game.  

[KillerGoose]

(12-06-2021, 11:54 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: down distance score field position time remaining in game.  

That still doesn't answer my question. What do you think constitutes a correct decision, IE are you looking at win percentage on certain decisions? Are you just taking points whenever you can get them? What are you using to say "okay, yeah, that was the best call that could be made"? Is it a gut feeling?

[Bengalfan4life27c]

4th and 3 or more take the points unless its 2nd half and your trailing by 12 or more

[*Go Cards*]

In the NFL a teams chance of making a 2 point conversion is only 43%.

There is a reason most coaches don't go for it unless they're a decided underdog in the OT matchup per injuries. Or unless maybe a college team that is very outmatched but somehow turnovers put them in position at games end to try to steal the game.

Think it was foolish call by Harbaugh but to his credit he did not even think twice about it.

Immediately after the score he held two fingers up to Lamar a said go for 2. Then the dumbass announcers were joking around about wouldn't it be great if they did go for it oblivious to the fact he already told offense to do so.

Anyway not a fan of either team so really don't care. But do hate the steelers way worse and hate seeing them only a half a game down from Bengals and that half a game will insure our tie breaking wins against them don't come into play.

If Bengals lose to 49ers and steelers win against the Vikings we will now be looking up at them punks in the AFCN standings.

If this scenario happens which is a possibility and Browns beat Baltimore the new standings will suddenly look like this

Ravens ......8-5
steelers.....7-5-1
Browns......7-6
Bengals ....7-6

Be careful about what you're wishing for because it may come true. .
Believe trying to eliminate the conference teams one at a time instead of begging for the escalator to magically take you to the top with a third of the season left and it does not even count yet is just fools gold imo.

Just want the Bengals to win their way in instead of backing into playoffs and immediately exiting again.
Realistically this year is the cake for me anyway and expecting the icing on the cake in the next two year and hopefully culminating with a Lombardi trophy as its featured decoration.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Analytics doesnt tell the whole story. Analytics says its just as easy to get a yard on the first snap of the game or a tight game on 4th and 1 in the 4th quarter. doesnt account for momentum shifts, causes you to chase points. Not playing to your strengths especially since 70 percent of the NFL doesn't have a fullback.