Another London Terrorist Attack

[GMDino]

(06-05-2017, 11:51 AM)Vlad Wrote: That wasn't a "flat out lie", you can call it hyperbole, misleading, an exaggeration...you know, what you just did.
http://www.snopes.com/2017/06/04/london-mayor-sadiq-khan-no-reason-to-be-alarmed-trump/
Gotta love when irony shows up..


And its more a damn shame we have to tell educated people to be wary of horseshit the MSM is selling. Trump does exactly what the MSM does to him.The bias is glaring, so evident it slaps you in the face.
Paybacks are a *****. Carry on Trump.

Well, to be fair I *did* give him an out by pointing out his incredibly short attention span.  Throw in a lack of vocabulary and intellect and he has plenty of excuses for not doing the right thing and instead tweeting about one line with no context that his supporters eat up like so much pork rinds before dinner.

See, when you are POTUS even when you continue to use your personal twitter account you are still speaking as the POTUS.

Something he, and his supporters, should remember.

[Millhouse]

(06-05-2017, 12:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: Well, to be fair I *did* give him an out by pointing out his incredibly short attention span.  Throw in a lack of vocabulary and intellect and he has plenty of excuses for not doing the right thing and instead tweeting about one line with no context that his supporters eat up like so much pork rinds before dinner.

See, when you are POTUS even when you continue to use your personal twitter account you are still speaking as the POTUS.

Something he, and his supporters, should remember.

I pretty much agree with you overall on this with Trump and his tweets. For me its not what he said, but how it was said.

IMO, the President should not be sending out a simple one line tweet like this very soon after the attack. He shouldnt even be tweeting at all, but that is another topic. If anything, he should have simply tweeted something generic like 'Prayers and sympathies with those in London tonight' and leave it at that.  Then if there is anything more to be said, have a presser on it, release a formal statement, or relay message to Spicer for the next day.

[GMDino]

(06-05-2017, 01:14 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I pretty much agree with you overall on this with Trump and his tweets. For me its not what he said, but how it was said.

IMO, the President should not be sending out a simple one line tweet like this very soon after the attack. He shouldnt even be tweeting at all, but that is another topic. If anything, he should have simply tweeted something generic like 'Prayers and sympathies with those in London tonight' and leave it at that.  Then if there is anything more to be said, have a presser on it, release a formal statement, or relay message to Spicer for the next day.

Or a video.  He's done those before.  Take a minute, get some help if need be, and write a quick, supportive response and send it out to his followers.

[GMDino]

POTUS doubling down.

Pathetic excuse by London Mayor Sadiq Khan who had to think fast on his "no reason to be alarmed" statement. MSM is working hard to sell it!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 5, 2017

[Arturo Bandini]

Those personnal attacks from a POTUS are the bottom low you can expect from anyone.

It would be rude from a simple humain being but come on, you're the president ...

This has to stop.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I guess Mayor Sadiq Khan lied when he said London was the "Safest Global City" in the world.

[hollodero]

(06-05-2017, 03:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I guess Mayor Sadiq Khan lied when he said London was the "Safest Global City" in the world.

So I was told as an European I should give my opinion on such things. Here is one. Could you, from Trump downwards (from whom it's to be ecpected, of course, for he's just as Mr. Bandini described him), please, please, please be as decent as to leave Sadiq Khan alone. Trump doesn't get to publicly attack him and call him names like pathetic or liar in this moment, that's just so extremely out of place. Don't follow im in these depths. The Trump part of the US is acting like a terrible friend right now, and it's getting really irritating.

[GMDino]

(06-05-2017, 03:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I guess Mayor Sadiq Khan lied when he said London was the "Safest Global City" in the world.

Maybe.  Maybe it is.   Maybe if he was lying that doesn't make Trump's lie any better.  At all.

Maybe that has nothing to do with the POTUS tweeting like a spurned school girl and completely leaving the Mayor's words out of context.

Maybe the POTUS is just more afraid than the mayor.

[GMDino]

(06-05-2017, 03:47 PM)hollodero Wrote: So I was told as an European I should give my opinion on such things. Here is one. Could you, from Trump downwards (from whom it's to be ecpected, of course, for he's just as Mr. Bandini described him), please, please, please be as decent as to leave Sadiq Khan alone. Trump doesn't get to publicly attack him and call him names like pathetic or liar in this moment, that's just so extremely out of place. Don't follow im in these depths. The Trump part of the US is acting like a terrible friend right now, and it's getting really irritating.

Sorry man.  Trump and his supporters have this innate need to always be "right".  They can't admit mistakes.

They are a minority.

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-05-2017, 03:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I guess Mayor Sadiq Khan lied when he said London was the "Safest Global City" in the world.

Would you think it would be OK this day after the today once again Orlando's attacks to see people and moreover presidents of foreign countries twitting Trump that he flat out sucks or expecting words of compassion and solidarity ?

WTF are we talking about ?

The world isn't a high school where you bully other people because you're stronger. 

It is not what you expect from noone and especially not from a PRESIDENT ! 

[hollodero]

(06-05-2017, 04:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sorry man.  Trump and his supporters have this innate need to always be "right".  They can't admit mistakes.

I don't need an apology. It's not my city, Mr. Khan isn't my mayor, I am not British. My country's just a friend like yours. Just, right now a better one.

Also, not everything has to turn into the right vs. the righteous debate. I didn't address you in the first place. And that has two polite meanings.

[GMDino]

(06-05-2017, 04:14 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't need an apology. Mr. Khan isn't my mayor too, I am not Great Britain, my country's just a friend like yours. Just, right now a better one.

Also, not everything has to turn into the right vs. the righteous debate. You weren't addressed in the first place. And that has two polite meanings.

I get it.  My "sorry" was not an apology for what he said or to you as a victim of anything.  Inflection get's lost in typed messages.

More like "Sorry dude, ain't happening".

Carry on!

[hollodero]

(06-05-2017, 04:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: More like "Sorry dude, ain't happening".

Carry on!

OK get it. It actually makes a ton of sense that way :)

As for the thing you actually meant: No spoilers!  

[Mike M (the other one)]

 

(06-05-2017, 03:47 PM)hollodero Wrote: So I was told as an European I should give my opinion on such things. Here is one. Could you, from Trump downwards (from whom it's to be ecpected, of course, for he's just as Mr. Bandini described him), please, please, please be as decent as to leave Sadiq Khan alone. Trump doesn't get to publicly attack him and call him names like pathetic or liar in this moment, that's just so extremely out of place. Don't follow im in these depths. The Trump part of the US is acting like a terrible friend right now, and it's getting really irritating.

What's irritating is idiots like Merkel and co telling Trump what to do on the Paris Accord. Their excuses were lame when it came to GloBull Warming. Tell me again how much money China (who's economy is supposed to surpass the US in the next year), Russia, India have contributed to it?

You can't BS as BS'er.

Here's the biggest Kicker. We've been in a global cooling stage since 2001. Also when you research Ice dated from a thousand years ago, the CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the Temperature changes, not the other way around. So CO2 is not the driver for Global Warming. What happens is after the Earth heats up, the CO2 from the oceans also rises.

We are also already a leader in cutting emissions so we can just keep on doing our thing with our own MONEY and with out trying to be regulated by the world that wants to let China/India double their coal production until 2030?? Yet we have to cut ours down? Sounds like someone wants to make money from us.

Take a lesson from Alberta.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/did-the-coal-phase-out-reduce-ontario-air-pollution-newsrelease.pdf

The study analyzed air pollution changes in Hamilton, Toronto and Ottawa from 2005 to 2014 and found that the coal phase-out had no effect on nitrogen oxide levels, an important component of smog, and produced only a small reduction in fine particulates, a common measure of air pollution.

In Toronto and Hamilton, the reduction in fine particulates was statistically insignificant.

"Ontario closed its coal-fired plants with promises to greatly reduce air pollution and save billions in health costs, neither of which came true. Now the province has some of the highest electricity rates in North America," said Kenneth Green, senior director of natural resource studies at the Fraser Institute.


OOPS. Guess CO2 wasn't the main problem in the first place...

[hollodero]

Wow.

(06-05-2017, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What's irritating is idiots like Merkel and co telling Trump what to do on the Paris Accord.

You mean it's irritating that they had their own wishes and even talked about them. How dare these idiots.

(06-05-2017, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Their excuses were lame when it came to GloBull Warming. Tell me again how much money China (who's economy is supposed to surpass the US in the next year), Russia, India have contributed to it?

Oh damn.
Contributions to the agreement were all voluntary. Including yours. You weren't legally bound to do anything. You just agreed on acknowledging the problem, along with the rest of the world. Is it a pointless agreement then? Maybe, maybe not. But just leaving it and then throwing out all these kinds of misinformation about obligations and how the world was laughing at you and whatnot, that's just ignorant, that's nothing more as not having captured the very idea in the first place.
There were no obligations. If you wouldn't have met any of the ones you chose, the other countries could have been angry at you, with a reason to be sour for you broke your word. That's all repercussions there were to face. Don't be surprised that you're facing them right now.

Here's what's so amazing about this. It's so self-centric, as a country, it's astonishing. Noooo, it was all about the US, about all the other mean countries taking advantage of us, everybody in this world always only wants to cross the US, they all collude to do so. When talking climate change, they all only have scamming the US in their dirty foreign minds.
Here's some information, not everybody has such an americacentric worldview than you do.

About the warming itself, the greatest overall contributor is the US, historically speaking. With quite a margin. Right now, it's China, sure. Not that that's a good thing on their part, of course.

(06-05-2017, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You can't BS as BS'er.

Good for you, means you're not a BS'er.

(06-05-2017, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Here's the biggest Kicker. We've been in a global cooling stage since 2001. Also when you research Ice dated from a thousand years ago, the CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the Temperature changes, not the other way around. So CO2 is not the driver for Global Warming.

This (and I don't know if that holds some scientific merit) doesn't tell us anything about the current situation. A sharp rise in CO2 levels like the current one is unprecedented. Your conclusion based on very vague ice dates isn't compelling at all. Even if CO2 usually always reacted naturally, doesn't mean it couldn't possibly be a driver for warming. You might think about that old "there's always a first time" saying.

The cooling stage, I won't comment until I have a source for that. I never heard anything about that which wasn't already widely debunked.

(06-05-2017, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What happens is after the Earth heats up, the CO2 from the oceans also rises.

Yep, that is true. And that should actually scare you.

Now I don't know exactly, but if you think our current rise of CO2 levels stems from a warming and the oceans reacting to that warming by gassing out CO2, you're wrong. It can be shown quite clearly that the additional CO2 in the atmosphere stems from fossil fuels.
If you think warming and CO2 levels aren't correlated directly, you're also wrong. The greenhouse effect is quite real, the contribution of CO2 is also a fact. If it weren't real, temperature on earth would be 32° Celsius colder, or something around these lines.

What you take there to debunk global warming really does nothing to debunk it.

(06-05-2017, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: We are also already a leader in cutting emissions so we can just keep on doing our thing with our own MONEY and with out trying to be regulated by the world that wants to let China/India double their coal production until 2030?? Yet we have to cut ours down? Sounds like someone wants to make money from us.

Again, the world isn't into some conspiracy against the US. Again, all voluntary.

(06-05-2017, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Take a lesson from Alberta.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/did-the-coal-phase-out-reduce-ontario-air-pollution-newsrelease.pdf

The study analyzed air pollution changes in Hamilton, Toronto and Ottawa from 2005 to 2014 and found that the coal phase-out had no effect on nitrogen oxide levels, an important component of smog, and produced only a small reduction in fine particulates, a common measure of air pollution.

In Toronto and Hamilton, the reduction in fine particulates was statistically insignificant.

"Ontario closed its coal-fired plants with promises to greatly reduce air pollution and save billions in health costs, neither of which came true. Now the province has some of the highest electricity rates in North America," said Kenneth Green, senior director of natural resource studies at the Fraser Institute.


OOPS. Guess CO2 wasn't the main problem in the first place...

I don't...you do know that air pollution and climate change are two different topics though, don't you? It's not smog or any kind of nitrogen oxides that are responsible for the greenhouse effect. Doesn't mean you would want them around.


Oh and finally: Nothing on Sadiq Khan? No overstepping to be acknowledged?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-05-2017, 04:09 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Would you think it would be OK this day after the today once again Orlando's attacks to see people and moreover presidents of foreign countries twitting Trump that he flat out sucks or expecting words of compassion and solidarity ?

WTF are we talking about ?

The world isn't a high school where you bully other people because you're stronger. 

It is not what you expect from noone and especially not from a PRESIDENT ! 

Or a Prime Minister.
The Europeans have been berating him just as much as he's berating them.
Trump's not falling for your BS and they don't like it. Seriously, did you hear the BS they told him before he voted to leave the Paris accord?
My effing BS radar was going off left and right and I'm glad we left, waste of tax payer money that we can use for our own country to keep making ourselves more green. Cutting the Cash cow is the right thing to do now. Each Continent should take care of it's own problems financially.

You don't know what's going on in our country anymore than we know what's going on in your country other than what we read, which is not always the truth, it's a partial truth designed to make you biased one way or the other.

Bullies? Who bullied Greece and UK? The EU? Angela Merkel is a big bully, I don't hear you crying about her.

[*Nately120*]

(06-05-2017, 11:05 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Of course, violent crime being committed, overwhelmingly, by men is nothing new.  Or maybe the criminal justice system is horribly sexist and biased towards me, which is why so many more men than women are incarcerated.  As to the education portion, agreed, to a point.  It's almost like these guys belong to some group that reject western style education.  This, however, doesn't stop highly educated people from joining this group and participating.  Curious.




You'll get no argument from me on the danger of religious justification for actions that would otherwise be unacceptable to anyone.  You'll also get no argument from me about the dangers of gang related violence on our own country.  I will, however, offer a counterpoint, or rather a point you can mull over if you like.  Why did the occupation of Germany and Japan after WW2 go so well?  Why no mass subversion or guerrilla warfare/terrorism? 



Not at all.  I'll happily stand with anyone who denounces this violence.  I do have a slight caveat.  You should denounce the violence, but you should also denounce the reasoning behind it.  Come straight out and say it's acceptable/allowed in Western society to draw Muhammed, call Muhammed a pig, crap on or burn a Quran, mock tenants of the islamic faith, simply be a woman who doesn't want to submit to men or be a homosexual.  Couple what with a firm statement of, "If we want to live here we have to accept that our values may differ from this nation", and I'm right there with you.

Fair enough, and I wanted to reply but I can't go into detail now (meeting up with friends for the Penguins game...I assume you'd appreciate that).  The short of it is that "Muslims are terrorists" (not that I'm saying you are making this claim) is narrative and agenda-based and could be pretty counterproductive if we just leave it at that.

It just smacks of an agenda of referring to Muslim terrorists as terrorists while minimizing the related factors that lead to our own brand of domestic terrorists that are very not Muslim.  Clearly there is more to it than simple Islamic faith.  Lordy, I wish it were that simple.

[Arturo Bandini]

Our BS ?

What do you think ? We're plotting against America ? That you're more clever than scientists, that you get all these things the right way while the others are BShitting ...

I understand why you love Trump, you're like him, telling other people they are liars and stupid ...

Life is a mirror of yourself.

BTW, I would be very surprised you know anything about Greece ...

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-05-2017, 05:17 PM)hollodero Wrote: Wow.


You mean it's irritating that they had their own wishes and even talked about them. How dare these idiots.



Oh damn.
Contributions to the agreement were all voluntary. Including yours. You weren't legally bound to do anything. You just agreed on acknowledging the problem, along with the rest of the world. Is it a pointless agreement then? Maybe, maybe not. But just leaving it and then throwing out all these kinds of misinformation about obligations and how the world was laughing at you and whatnot, that's just ignorant, that's nothing more as not having captured the very idea in the first place.
There were no obligations. If you wouldn't have met any of the ones you chose, the other countries could have been angry at you, with a reason to be sour for you broke your word. That's all repercussions there were to face. Don't be surprised that you're facing them right now.

Here's what's so amazing about this. It's so self-centric, as a country, it's astonishing. Noooo, it was all about the US, about all the other mean countries taking advantage of us, everybody in this world always only wants to cross the US, they all collude to do so. When talking climate change, they all only have scamming the US in their dirty foreign minds.
Here's some information, not everybody has such an americacentric worldview than you do.

About the warming itself, the greatest overall contributor is the US, historically speaking. With quite a margin. Right now, it's China, sure. Not that that's a good thing on their part, of course.



Good for you, means you're not a BS'er.


This (and I don't know if that holds some scientific merit) doesn't tell us anything about the current situation. A sharp rise in CO2 levels like the current one is unprecedented. Your conclusion based on very vague ice dates isn't compelling at all. Even if CO2 usually always reacted naturally, doesn't mean it couldn't possibly be a driver for warming. You might think about that old "there's always a first time" saying.

The cooling stage, I won't comment until I have a source for that. I never heard anything about that which wasn't already widely debunked.



Yep, that is true. And that should actually scare you.

Now I don't know exactly, but if you think our current rise of CO2 levels stems from a warming and the oceans reacting to that warming by gassing out CO2, you're wrong. It can be shown quite clearly that the additional CO2 in the atmosphere stems from fossil fuels.
If you think warming and CO2 levels aren't correlated directly, you're also wrong. The greenhouse effect is quite real, the contribution of CO2 is also a fact. If it weren't real, temperature on earth would be 32° Celsius colder, or something around these lines.

What you take there to debunk global warming really does nothing to debunk it.



Again, the world isn't into some conspiracy against the US. Again, all voluntary.


I don't...you do know that air pollution and climate change are two different topics though, don't you? It's not smog or any kind of nitrogen oxides that are responsible for the greenhouse effect. Doesn't mean you would want them around.


Oh and finally: Nothing on Sadiq Khan? No overstepping to be acknowledged?

I don't recall anything being debunked. Maybe it was in that time when I was tired of logging on and seeing the same ol' shet day in and day out in here. and I really have no idea why I'm posting now. You have your ideas/view and I have mine. We will rarely if ever agree on anything.

Trump 2020.

As far as Overstepping?

Didn't Khan invite USC's to move to London back when Trump was elected? These 2 seem to have a mouthy past recently so it's not a surprise that Trump is taking digs at him.

PS I'm done in here again, same ol crap.

[Dill]

(06-05-2017, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You don't know what's going on in our country anymore than we know what's going on in your country other than what we read, which is not always the truth, it's a partial truth designed to make you biased one way or the other.

Bullies? Who bullied Greece and UK? The EU? Angela Merkel is a big bully, I don't hear you crying about her.

Actually, Mike, Hollo does have a better idea of what's going on in the US than many Americans do.

There are ways of vetting and cross-checking what one reads to eliminate the "partial truth" and outright distortions.
You just threw up a long, misinformed post about climate change, confusing air pollution with global warming and offering a link from the Fraser Institute, funded by the Koch brothers and Exxon--before the latter finally turned the corner and agreed with their own scientists, that global warming is anthropogenic.

Every statement and press release and "study" put out by the Fraser Institute should not be immediately disqualified because it is from the FI. But it certainly needs to be checked against other sources. You should know that the point of the FI is political, not scientific. It was created with support from the extraction industries to counter growing scientific consensus regarding global warming. And its funders are angry that Ontario has almost completely phased out coal as an energy source. Good for Ontario, bad for coal profits.

You have also accepted as valid Trump's characterizations of the Paris Accord without checking. You ran with your first impression, taking no time to learn what individual countries are actually agreeing to and why. As soon as you are challenged, you claim "same old crap" and you are "done."  This is simply to operate at the level of first impressions.

All news and all science are not all BS and "bias." But one can indeed BS a BSer if he's inclined to read only sources that confirm his worldview and not inclined to check them at all. There are people who take much more care in assessing what they read. They are not "done" when their views aren't confirmed by authoritative sources.