Another mass shooting...

[RoyleRedlegs]

(10-02-2015, 04:36 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They have to pay for classes for conceal carry let people take classes to buy a gun.  It won't reduce murders, but it could reduce accidental shootings.  Some gun places may offer the classes for free as a competitive edge.

you mean...FREE MARKETS?!?

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-02-2015, 04:36 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They have to pay for classes for conceal carry let people take classes to buy a gun.  It won't reduce murders, but it could reduce accidental shootings.  Some gun places may offer the classes for free as a competitive edge.

And who makes sure these places are training properly or thoroughly? Who inspects the "free gun classes" offered by Uncle Joe's Gun Shop in Alabama to make sure they are more than going to a target range with a twelve-pack?

Regulation would be involved in this somewhere along the line. Probably not very much money at all considering the benefits, and if you really think you could pass something that forces people to buy their own courses, then all the better. But there would definitely be some regulation, and some money. Regulation, money=non-starter for the Tea Baggers.

Just one more reason to flush them from the Congressional toilet bowl.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-02-2015, 04:43 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: And who makes sure these places are training properly or thoroughly? Who inspects the "free gun classes" offered by Uncle Joe's Gun Shop in Alabama to make sure they are more than going to a target range with a twelve-pack?

Regulation would be involved in this somewhere along the line. Probably not very much money at all considering the benefits, and if you really think you could pass something that forces people to buy their own courses, then all the better. But there would definitely be some regulation, and some money. Regulation, money=non-starter for the Tea Baggers.

Just one more reason to flush them from the Congressional toilet bowl.

Uhhh...OK.

[CKwi88]

I used to get all riled up over this. Maybe it was living outside the US that made me realize how ridiculous the attitude towards guns is.

I'm now firmly in the boat of "it comes with the territory." It is simply a depressing part of American culture, and I doubt much can be done about it. It is so ingrained in our culture and isn't about to go away.

Just pray that your number doesn't come up.

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-02-2015, 05:03 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I used to get all riled up over this. Maybe it was living outside the US that made me realize how ridiculous the attitude towards guns is.

I'm now firmly in the boat of "it comes with the territory." It is simply a depressing part of American culture, and I doubt much can be done about it. It is so ingrained in our culture and isn't about to go away.

Just pray that your number doesn't come up.

Genuinely interested... Where did you live outside the U.S.? What were some of the things that illustrated the cultural difference to you?

[Au165]

(10-02-2015, 05:03 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I used to get all riled up over this. Maybe it was living outside the US that made me realize how ridiculous the attitude towards guns is.

I'm now firmly in the boat of "it comes with the territory." It is simply a depressing part of American culture, and I doubt much can be done about it. It is so ingrained in our culture and isn't about to go away.

Just pray that your number doesn't come up.

A defeatist attitude is no way to approach the safety of people. There is always something that can be done, it's just a matter of determining what that may be.

[Beaker]

One student said he was asking people their religion before shooting them. If that's true, its another check mark for people dying because of religion.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-02-2015, 05:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: One student said he was asking people their religion before shooting them. If that's true, its another check mark for people dying because of religion.

Yeah but not because he thought his religion was better.  He hated organized religion. 

[mallorian69]

(10-02-2015, 05:27 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah but not because he thought his religion was better.  He hated organized religion. 

Let say I am NOT defending or condoning this guys actions, but you can hate organized religion and still be religious. That said any sane person who felt that way still wouldn't do what this but job did.

[CKwi88]

(10-02-2015, 05:06 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Genuinely interested... Where did you live outside the U.S.? What were some of the things that illustrated the cultural difference to you?

Brazil. The rep is overblown, but it's still a far cry from the picture of safety and security. I first lived there in 2004 after their big reform in 2003, and witnessed other movements in 2008 (call for registering) and 2011 (Gun Buyback.) The movements in themselves were somewhat effective (something like a 10% decrease in deaths between 2003 and 2005) and an estimated 160k people not killed. 

But like many have said here, legislation is not the end all in these situations. It's mostly a culture thing. Brazil is still up there in gun violence. And that's actually what surprised me the most about the events in Brasil, they realize that and still act. Nobody thought that it would be a quick fix, and the country continued to to combat other factors rather than just trying to pass gun reform and leave it alone. 

In my mind, the people have to be open to changing the laws and culture, something I doubt the USA is ready for. It's gotta come from the ground up.



For any curious, here's a rough translation of their 2003 reform to own a gun in Brazil:

25 years or older. 
Have a job and place of residence. 
Background check
Display technical and mental capacity as tested by certified federal police agents. 
Written petition describing the necessity for a firearm
R$60 bucks.

Edit: I'm in no way advocating for Brazil's system. They have an entirely different legal system and different constitutional rights. The second amendment really makes the US tricky, for better or for worse.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

Mass shootings are so routine that this thread wasn't even made for 24 hours after it happened. That's how "big news" it is. People just know it's going to happen, so they don't bat an eye when a couple handfuls of students are massacred.

There is a problem in this country. For some ****** up reason, we pretend it isn't that big of an issue. What should we do to fix this?

[GodHatesBengals]

(10-02-2015, 06:24 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Brazil. The rep is overblown, but it's still a far cry from the picture of safety and security. I first lived there in 2004 after their big reform in 2003, and witnessed other movements in 2008 (call for registering) and 2011 (Gun Buyback.) The movements in themselves were somewhat effective (something like a 10% decrease in deaths between 2003 and 2005) and an estimated 160k people not killed. 

But like many have said here, legislation is not the end all in these situations. It's mostly a culture thing. Brazil is still up there in gun violence. And that's actually what surprised me the most about the events in Brasil, they realize that and still act. Nobody thought that it would be a quick fix, and the country continued to to combat other factors rather than just trying to pass gun reform and leave it alone. 

In my mind, the people have to be open to changing the laws and culture, something I doubt the USA is ready for. It's gotta come from the ground up.



For any curious, here's a rough translation of their 2003 reform to own a gun in Brazil:

25 years or older. 
Have a job and place of residence. 
Background check
Display technical and mental capacity as tested by certified federal police agents. 
Written petition describing the necessity for a firearm
R$60 bucks.

Edit: I'm in no way advocating for Brazil's system. They have an entirely different legal system and different constitutional rights. The second amendment really makes the US tricky, for better or for worse.

I dunno. I am tempted by this attitude, and have held it in the past. I don't know what causes Americans to be more on the violent side. Cormac McCarthy's novels seem to imply that "it", whatever "it" is, was here long before America was America. Fiction, of course, and mystical, but the implication seems to be that he, too, sees no real answers.

But I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that America has a serious, institutional problem when it comes to dealing with mental illness and keeping guns out of those people's hands.

[Blutarsky]

(10-02-2015, 07:32 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote:  I don't know what causes Americans to be more on the violent side.

Diversity.

[Belsnickel]

(10-02-2015, 07:24 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Mass shootings are so routine that this thread wasn't even made for 24 hours after it happened.  That's how "big news" it is.  People just know it's going to happen, so they don't bat an eye when a couple handfuls of students are massacred.

There is a problem in this country. For some ***** up reason, we pretend it isn't that big of an issue. What should we do to fix this?

Nothing. Because, look, you know, stuff happens.

Sorry, just another Bushism for the ages.

[*Nately120*]

(10-02-2015, 10:14 PM)Blutarsky Wrote: Diversity.

Predictability.

[Blutarsky]

(10-02-2015, 05:24 PM)Beaker Wrote: One student said he was asking people their religion before shooting them.

Asking if they were Christian to be specific....but that's neither here nor there to lefties, probably for the better. This nut job seeking out and killing Muslims would put this incident on another level.

[*Nately120*]

(10-02-2015, 10:33 PM)Blutarsky Wrote: Asking if they were Christian to be specific....but that's neither here nor there to lefties, probably for the better. This nut job seeking out and killing Muslims would put this incident on another level.

Ok, have it your way, it was a crazy Muslim going after Christians.  What do we do now, declare extra-war on Islam?

[Blutarsky]

(10-02-2015, 11:51 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok, have it your way, it was a crazy Muslim going after Christians.  What do we do now, declare extra-war on Islam?

This has nothing to do with having it my way. If it was a crazy Muslim going after Christians what else is new?

Try using some intellect child.

[*Nately120*]

(10-03-2015, 12:23 AM)Blutarsky Wrote: This has nothing to do with having it my way.  If it was a crazy Muslim going after Christians what else is new?

Try using some intellect child.

So what do you think we should do, oh wise one?

[Bengalzona]

(10-02-2015, 06:24 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: For any curious, here's a rough translation of their 2003 reform to own a gun in Brazil:

25 years or older. 
Have a job and place of residence. 
Background check
Display technical and mental capacity as tested by certified federal police agents. 
Written petition describing the necessity for a firearm
R$60 bucks.

Edit: I'm in no way advocating for Brazil's system. They have an entirely different legal system and different constitutional rights. The second amendment really makes the US tricky, for better or for worse.

I would advocate for that. Makes sense to me.