Another violent jaywalker off the street...

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2015, 07:46 AM)GMDino Wrote: But the video was posted to show how sometime, maybe, just possibly, officers can go a little-wee-bit overboard with their "hands on  approach" to taking in this violent criminals just standing on the street. 

Why post a video to prove a point that every single person here agrees with?  There is no dispute among anyone here that police make mistakes and sometimes use excessive force.

All the video does is prove the point that I am trying to make.  Don't fight the police on the street if you want to live.  Instead fight them in court.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-18-2015, 07:46 AM)GMDino Wrote: But the video was posted to show how sometime, maybe, just possibly, officers can go a little-wee-bit overboard with their "hands on  approach" to taking in this violent criminals just standing on the street. 

I suppose we'll wait for you to find someone who disputes this.  Then maybe you'd have a point.

[GMDino]

(09-18-2015, 10:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Shouldn't that be SMM?

Correct!

(09-18-2015, 10:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: An incredibly inaccurate depiction of past events, i.e. busines as usual from you.

SMM strikes again!

(09-18-2015, 10:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're right, the board is for discussion.  When one of our members obsesses on a single topic we tend to discuss that.  Just like St. Lucie obsesses over planned parenthood you obsess over law enforcement and take every opportunity to bash them.  You even had to apologize for yet another example of knee jerk blaming of law enforcement, going so far as to deny video evidence that showed a person pointing a gun at law enforcement.  I'll further point out that you were the only poster who didn't see the video evidence for what it was and you were adamant in your stance.  I don't have to claim a single thing in regards to you and this topic, your history speaks, loudly, for itself.

SMM Strike again! LOL!

I love how admitting you made a mistake in this world is brought up as some sort of argument that nothing you say on the subject is ever correct.

More people need to be able to admit they made a mistake in life. IMHO.

(09-18-2015, 10:46 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yet another inaccurate depiction of past discussion, i.e. business as usual for you.  BTW, you're the only one I have this issue with, just you.  That alone should tell you something.  So feel free to continue, just don't expect me to not call you out for your obsessive bullshit.

Yes, it tells me you have an inability to have a discussion without taking it personally and with no open mind in any way shape of form. And that's fine. I'll admit when I make a mistake, you keep on keeping on.

[Vas Deferens]

Who knows what happened before. Totally understand some people saying he was resisting and you have to expect a beat down or whatever. Personally looks excessive to me, but what do I know.

I do think police need to be better trained in conflict resolution. Seems like in a lot of these situations you see police just going right to force, without trying to talk through a situation. Probably going to get reamed by some here for that comment, but again, just one middle aged white guy with an opinion and occasional compassion.

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2015, 12:55 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote:  I do think police need to be better trained in conflict resolution.  Seems like in a lot of these situations you see police just going right to force, without trying to talk through a situation.  Probably going to get reamed by some here for that comment, but again, just one middle aged white guy with an opinion and occasional compassion.

Actually I think almost everyone here agrees with this.

On the streets police officers have ultimate authority over everyone else.  This is unlike pretty much any other job out there.  So while all people in all lines of work make mistakes the results are magnified when a police officer makes a mistake because of the amount of power and authority a police officer has.

Police don't need more training because they are more stupid or corrupt than people in other fields.  Instead they need more training because of the amount of authority they are given over every citizen.

The more power and authority a person has the more likely he is to abuse that power and the more training is required to avoid this abuse.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-18-2015, 12:55 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Who knows what happened before.  Totally understand some people saying he was resisting and you have to expect a beat down or whatever.  Personally looks excessive to me, but what do I know.  

I do think police need to be better trained in conflict resolution.  Seems like in a lot of these situations you see police just going right to force, without trying to talk through a situation.  Probably going to get reamed by some here for that comment, but again, just one middle aged white guy with an opinion and occasional compassion.

Like you I'm just a middle aged white guy, and I've been pulled over many times in my life (once I could've been over the legal limit, though I wasn't drunk) and I've always been cooperative and polite.  That being said, I've had some cops that were really, really cool.  Unfortunately a lot of them not so much, many seem to be drunk on their authority.  I was in the military, and have a healthy respect for authority (plus I have no desire to go to jail), but more than once I've driven away after being pulled over thinking "what ***** prick".  I have no doubt that some go into the profession for the right reasons.  I guess it just irritates me that there people out there looking for any little mistake I make.  I'll give you an example from a friend of mine.  He was driving home after a heavy rain, the road had flooded but he couldn't see it because it was dark, until his car was stuck.  Being stranded at 1am he thought he should just call the police, which he did.  What happened is that the car got impounded and he got a DUI.  Why?  He blew a .083 after being questioned (legal limit is .08).  Dude had two beers, and he's a good size dude.  That kind of shit really irritates me.

[Rotobeast]

(09-18-2015, 12:55 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Who knows what happened before.  Totally understand some people saying he was resisting and you have to expect a beat down or whatever.  Personally looks excessive to me, but what do I know.  

I do think police need to be better trained in conflict resolution.  Seems like in a lot of these situations you see police just going right to force, without trying to talk through a situation.  Probably going to get reamed by some here for that comment, but again, just one middle aged white guy with an opinion and occasional compassion.

I don't disagree with you.
I was a bouncer for about 3.5 years and never got into a fight.
I placed myself physically between the people and then verbally explained the ramifications of their potential actions.
95% of the time they came to their senses, calmed down, thanked me the next week, and had my back every weekend after that.
So yeah, training in conflict resolution is never a bad thing.

[Vas Deferens]

(09-18-2015, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Police don't need more training because they are more stupid or corrupt than people in other fields.  Instead they need more training because of the amount of authority they are given over every citizen.

You're right, the entire population is getting dumber and dumber.  Blowback from an underfunded education system.  

(09-18-2015, 01:31 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I'll give you an example from a friend of mine.  He was driving home after a heavy rain, the road had flooded but he couldn't see it because it was dark, until his car was stuck.  Being stranded at 1am he thought he should just call the police, which he did.  What happened is that the car got impounded and he got a DUI.  Why?  He blew a .083 after being questioned (legal limit is .08).  Dude had two beers, and he's a good size dude.  That kind of shit really irritates me.

Situations like these make me wish I had followed through with a law degree.  I'd have the county clerk alert me to these cases and take them pro bono with a passion no overworked PD could possibly muster.  Plus I'd have a greater chance of yelling at Fred in real life.

(09-18-2015, 01:32 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I placed myself physically between the people and then verbally explained the ramifications of their potential actions.

Its really not that hard.  I'll bet that was good experience you utilized going forward.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-18-2015, 01:46 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Situations like these make me wish I had followed through with a law degree.  I'd have the county clerk alert me to these cases and take them pro bono with a passion no overworked PD could possibly muster.  Plus I'd have a greater chance of yelling at Fred in real life.

Fred always struck me as a public defender, maybe I'm wrong.

[Vas Deferens]

(09-18-2015, 02:00 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Fred always struck me as a public defender, maybe I'm wrong.

Doesn't matter which side of the fence he's on.  We'd get into a good ol' fashioned courtroom argument.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-18-2015, 02:07 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Doesn't matter which side of the fence he's on.  We'd get into a good ol' fashioned courtroom argument.

If you were both PD's wouldn't you be on the same side of an argument?     It certainly make for entertaining courtroom drama.

[GMDino]

(09-18-2015, 12:55 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Who knows what happened before.  Totally understand some people saying he was resisting and you have to expect a beat down or whatever.  Personally looks excessive to me, but what do I know.  

I do think police need to be better trained in conflict resolution.  Seems like in a lot of these situations you see police just going right to force, without trying to talk through a situation.  Probably going to get reamed by some here for that comment, but again, just one middle aged white guy with an opinion and occasional compassion.

(09-18-2015, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I think almost everyone here agrees with this.

On the streets police officers have ultimate authority over everyone else.  This is unlike pretty much any other job out there.  So while all people in all lines of work make mistakes the results are magnified when a police officer makes a mistake because of the amount of power and authority a police officer has.

Police don't need more training because they are more stupid or corrupt than people in other fields.  Instead they need more training because of the amount of authority they are given over every citizen.

The more power and authority a person has the more likely he is to abuse that power and the more training is required to avoid this abuse.

(09-18-2015, 01:32 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I don't disagree with you.
I was a bouncer for about 3.5 years and never got into a fight.
I placed myself physically between the people and then verbally explained the ramifications of their potential actions.
95% of the time they came to their senses, calmed down,  thanked me the next week,  and had my back every weekend after that.
So yeah,  training in conflict resolution is never a bad thing.

Yes, yes, yes, and thank you.

[Vas Deferens]

(09-18-2015, 02:17 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: If you were both PD's wouldn't you be on the same side of an argument?     It certainly make for entertaining courtroom drama.

Wouldn't care.  I'd go up and pants him mid closing argument and start yelling at him about how its not that cold in Denver.  

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2015, 02:00 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Fred always struck me as a public defender, maybe I'm wrong.

I was a PD for almost 15 years.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-18-2015, 02:24 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Wouldn't care.  I'd go up and pants him mid closing argument and start yelling at him about how its not that cold in Denver.  

Well who could argue with that?  So you're bringing sexy back?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-18-2015, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was a PD for almost 15 years.

So what kind of law are you practicing now?

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2015, 02:29 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: So what kind of law are you practicing now?

Still doing almost exclusively criminal defense, but I am working for myself.

[Vas Deferens]

(09-18-2015, 02:27 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Well who could argue with that?  So you're bringing sexy back?

We've all been harping on Fred to seal the jury's final opinion with his bare undercarriage for years, this would force his hand....  and probably others...

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(09-18-2015, 02:35 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: We've all been harping on Fred to seal the jury's final opinion with his bare undercarriage for years, this would force his hand....  and probably others...

I'm gonna go to work now and try to forget that this conversation ever happened.