Anti Vaxers...Another Radicalized Group?

[CJD]

(03-19-2019, 04:23 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And hence the problem defining hate speech.  

I made an entire post about how hard it is to define hate speech, so I agree with you

[*michaelsean*]

(03-19-2019, 04:24 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I made an entire post about how hard it is to define hate speech, so I agree with you

I am aware. I really don't believe in any hate speech legislation.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-19-2019, 04:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I am aware.  I really don't believe in any hate speech legislation.

Anyone who cares about free expression should be of the same opinion.  Thankfully any hate speech laws would be blatantly unconstitutional.  When you look at Europe, and especially the UK, and see people being arrested, and sometimes imprisoned, for expressing their opinion it makes me sick to my stomach. 

[Dill]

(03-19-2019, 04:30 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Anyone who cares about free expression should be of the same opinion.  Thankfully any hate speech laws would be blatantly unconstitutional.  When you look at Europe, and especially the UK, and see people being arrested, and sometimes imprisoned, for expressing their opinion it makes me sick to my stomach. 

In Germany, you can be arrested/fined for tapping your temple at someone.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-19-2019, 06:42 PM)Dill Wrote: In Germany, you can be arrested/fined for tapping your temple at someone.

You can also be fined for referring to a police officer as "du", which is only to be used with close friends or family.  We certainly have our issues in the US, but no one is getting fined or arrested for voicing an opinion.

[Beaker]

How did we get from the stupidity of anti-vaxxers to hate speech?

[Dill]

(03-19-2019, 10:31 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So how do you define these terms in absolutes when there doesn't seem to be any single consensus on what is and is not truth? I feel like this is the crux of the problem with politics today. With a world of "fake news" and "alternative facts" how can a single person ever truly believe what they are hearing? How is everything not, at least allegedly, spun in some way towards one side or the other?

Not sure how "hate speech" connects to "truth" when a right (to free speech) is under consideration.  A right to free speech means a right to speak untruth--or what others think is untruth, especially what the authorities think is untruth.  This is in part a legacy of Europe's religious wars and persecutions. At one time, the question "Why would you let someone spread a false doctrine which sends millions to hell?" expressed a valid and urgent concern, when saving souls was even more important than saving lives. When saving lives became more important, in part because of difficulty of authoritatively deciding what God wanted, untruth (the other guy's, of course) had to be tolerated.

Under liberal democracies, the only serious restriction of free speech can come from concerns for public safety--e.g., don't shout "fire" in a crowded theater--so it becomes critical how one defines "public safety."  

Remember, in Germany, it is not legal to display NAZI paraphernalia.  People there have largely been ok with this restriction on freedom of expression, as have Germany's neighbors--and for understandable "public safety" reasons.  

(03-19-2019, 10:31 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Even with something like Anti-vaxxing, which does not appear to have anything to do with political beliefs ("In 2015, the Pew Research Center conducted a survey of 2 thousand adults which concluded about 12 percent of liberals and 10 percent of conservatives believed that childhood vaccines are unsafe."), both democrats and republicans are trying to blame anti-vaxxing beliefs on the other party.
https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/childhood-vaccination-programs-should-be-exempt-political-bias

So you are TOTALLY UNAWARE of how chips are implanted which enable the government to control our hormones and thoughts?? So sad--how can I reach you??? . . . .

(03-19-2019, 10:31 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Sometimes I wish the world wasn't so politicized and wonder to myself if there was ever a time when people didn't feel this way about politics. It can be awfully exhausting always trying to determine if you believe something because you truly believe it or if it's because that's what the party you identify with believes, so you feel the subconscious need to comply...

Pretty sure there was, and in my lifetime (I was born in '51).  

[*michaelsean*]

(03-19-2019, 06:44 PM)Beaker Wrote: How did we get from the stupidity of anti-vaxxers to hate speech?

Nobody to argue the other side.

[Benton]

(03-19-2019, 06:44 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You can also be fined for referring to a police officer as "du", which is only to be used with close friends or family.  We certainly have our issues in the US, but no one is getting fined or arrested for voicing an opinion.

Soooo... you're saying a person or group of people could refer to themselves as a sensitive term that wouldn't be applied to another group of people, especially one in authority, without negative connotations?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-20-2019, 12:50 AM)Benton Wrote: Soooo... you're saying a person or group of people could refer to themselves as a sensitive term that wouldn't be applied to another group of people, especially one in authority, without negative connotations?

Fined or arrested, my friend.  Negative connotations is a much larger net that's not even clearly defined.