Are Republicans under estimating Joe Biden

[Luvnit2]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-campaign-stronger-republicans-think

Well an opinion piece by Newt Gingrich says yes republicans are underestimating Biden and I would add any other Democratic nominee.. I agree, Biden is doing things the far left wants done.

It is a long time until Nov. 2024, but the GOP better wake up. They better do a much better job of early voting as Democrats dominate the GOP in early.
voting.

There are a lot more Democrats than conservatives so in the general election, the GOP nominee always starts out behind the Democratic nominee.

I changed my mind from DeSanto to Trump. I will always believe Trump did a great job for conservatives and for the middle class. He was great on foreign policy. He almost had us energy independent. He appointed 3 constitutional Supreme Court Justices. My concern with Trump is his major weakness is his tone, not his policies. He did not learn and continues personal attacks, he needs to learn there are times we need to walk away from a fight.

I am hopeful conservatives can find a winner, not sure it is Trump anymore.

[*Nately120*]

(06-26-2023, 12:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am hopeful conservatives can find a winner, not sure it is Trump anymore.

It's interesting to hear various viewpoints on this in this day and age, mostly because people can't even agree who won elections anymore.  So when you say you aren't sure if Trump is a winner anymore, I have to ask what is your view on the 2020 election, do you think he won or lost?

Or is the idea that Trump is like Nixon who lost a close matchup to JFK because of "not illegal but not fair" reasons, and he can still win down the road? How do conservatives deal with other conservatives who disagree with their views on who won the 2020 election? I can see how someone who wants to move on from Trump would have a hard time having a reasonable debate with a fellow conservative who is convinced Trump won in 2016 and 2020 each time by a landslide because who would want to move on from a president who won twice in a row "by a lot?"

[Arturo Bandini]

(06-26-2023, 12:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There are a lot more Democrats than conservatives 

That might explain why you lose the elections. 

[*pally*]

Republicans underestimate Democratic voting power all the time. They blame cheating for Republican losses instead of bad candidates with bad ideas which is why you'll lose in 2024 too unless something fundamental changes in the Republican Party. That's what happens when you listen to media sources focused on telling viewers/listeners/readers what they want to hear instead of telling them what they should hear.

You can't run only on a culture war. Between attacks on culture and the ongoing saga of the 2020 election, Republicans are doing more for Democratic get-out-the-vote efforts than anything else going on. Every single day, you remind independents and middle-leaning Democrats why they never ever want this current crop of Republicans in office

[*Nately120*]

(06-26-2023, 02:05 PM)pally Wrote: Republicans underestimate Democratic voting power all the time.  They blame cheating for Republican losses instead of bad candidates with bad ideas which is why you'll lose in 2024 too unless something fundamental changes in the Republican Party.  That's what happens when you listen to media sources focused on telling viewers/listeners/readers what they want to hear instead of telling them what they should hear.

You can't run only on a culture war.  Between attacks on culture and the ongoing saga of the 2020 election, Republicans are doing more for Democratic get-out-the-vote efforts than anything else going on.  Every single day, you remind independents and middle-leaning Democrats why they never ever want this current crop of Republicans in office

A lot of MAGA candidates who lost in 2022 didn't fight it and sort of gave in and when on with their lives.  Still, that leaves Trump and Kari Lake as the two biggest proponents of "it was rigged" and they're shaping up to be a very possible President/VP ticket in 2024, so I suppose it's quality over quantity there.

I know in PA Dr Oz lost and pretty much flew back to his mansion in NJ without a peep and Doug Mastriano held out for a while but conceded...though I think he may run for a senate seat here so he'll probably get back to calling his loss to Josh Shapiro for governor as being rigged.  We shall see.

At any rate, the idea that the GOP should stick with candidates that lost because they "totally won, you guys" pretty much sails by liberals and independents these days but frustrates members of the GOP who don't buy into the narrative that these candidates that lost simply can NOT lose.

[CJD]

The reason Republicans so often under estimate Democrats is because Republicans are convinced they are the "silent majority." I imagine this has a lot to do with them, by necessity (in order to maintain all the culture war and flagrantly false or misleading beliefs), self segregate from the majority of society, so they only talk to people who already agree with them on everything.

If I walked out of my house and every single person I interacted with on any given day shared my exact values, I would start to believe my opponents were the vast minority as well.

Biden has surprised me with how much he's been able to get done. I figured he'd be a neoliberal just like most Democratic presidents and...I mean...he's basically that but he has also thrown a few bones to the further left (relative to him and the majority of the country) than I expected.

One of the biggest let downs of Biden's presidency was when he squashed that railroad union strike because it would have been to detrimental to the economy. I get why he did it, but the government limiting the rights of a union was a bad moment, in my opinion. Well, just a few days ago, the leaders of the railroad workers' union came out and said that, despite ending their strike, Biden continued to work with them and the railroad companies to get them the paid sick days that they were fighting for back then.

The fact that he essentially corrected one of the things that, from the left, was a black mark on his record was very surprising to me.

If the Republicans want to replace Biden, they're going to have to coalesce behind one candidate and I'm not sure they're capable of doing that right now. Trump seems to be tearing the party apart at the seams. And even if he gets the nomination, he may have the threat of jail time looming over him the entire time he is running, not to mention the fact that he has already lost the popular vote twice before he became the first indicted president ever (among many other things that he has not yet been indicted for, but may be coming down the pipeline).

There's a saying that I feel is true more often than not regarding Republican nominees. "Can't win a republican primary without Trump, Can't win a general election with him." It doesn't have 100% accuracy since there are deep red districts etc, but in areas where the election is up for grabs, the trump endorsed candidate often wins the primary and often loses the general election.

It seems the 2024 presidency election has the chance to have a similar outcome.

If you weren't willing to vote for Trump in 2020, I sincerely doubt you'd be willing to vote for him in 2024.

It's a shame that, as a country, we are likely going to be forced to pick between two Octogenarians (or near octogenarians) that are deeply unpopular on the grand scale of things.

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2023, 01:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's interesting to hear various viewpoints on this in this day and age, mostly because people can't even agree who won elections anymore.  So when you say you aren't sure if Trump is a winner anymore, I have to ask what is your view on the 2020 election, do you think he won or lost?

Or is the idea that Trump is like Nixon who lost a close matchup to JFK because of "not illegal but not fair" reasons, and he can still win down the road?  How do conservatives deal with other conservatives who disagree with their views on who won the 2020 election?  I can see how someone who wants to move on from Trump would have a hard time having a reasonable debate with a fellow conservative who is convinced Trump won in 2016 and 2020 each time by a landslide because who would want to move on from a president who won twice in a row "by a lot?"

It is clear Trump had less votes and did not have enough electoral votes to best Biden. i have never disputed Trump lost. Trump does have facts on his side the media and former intelligence officials colluded to say the HB laptop was Russian disinformation. We now have proof the FBI verified the laptop in 2019, a long time prior to the November, 2020 election.

Why did the FBI withhold very important information from the public? Did they interfere with the election by not correcting the letter from the 51 as false. Republicans who voted for Trump will say 100% yes, Democrats who voted for Biden will say 100% no, I am not sure how independents would vote. But polling stated if people knew the HB laptop was not Russian disinformation and in fact hos laptop, they would never have voted for Biden.

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2023, 02:05 PM)pally Wrote: Republicans underestimate Democratic voting power all the time.  They blame cheating for Republican losses instead of bad candidates with bad ideas which is why you'll lose in 2024 too unless something fundamental changes in the Republican Party.  That's what happens when you listen to media sources focused on telling viewers/listeners/readers what they want to hear instead of telling them what they should hear.

You can't run only on a culture war.  Between attacks on culture and the ongoing saga of the 2020 election, Republicans are doing more for Democratic get-out-the-vote efforts than anything else going on.  Every single day, you remind independents and middle-leaning Democrats why they never ever want this current crop of Republicans in office

There is no doubt some truth to what you are saying. But isn't it on both sides? How did HRC handle her 2016 loss to Trump? Did Democrats accept the Trump won in 2016 or did they immediately attempt to attack him politically, threats by Madonna and Kathy Griffin.

I agree Republicans do not always accept defeat well. But Democrats are still whining about losing the White House in 2016, still saying "Trump is (was) not my President".

As for winning 2024, I believe our best choice is DeSantos with Senator Tim Scott as his running mate. If Trump does beat DeSantos, he too should choose Tim Scott as his running mate. I love Tim Scott's positive message. I am sick of the gloom and doom and racism in politics.

[*Nately120*]

(06-26-2023, 05:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is clear Trump had less votes and did not have enough electoral votes to best Biden. i have never disputed Trump lost. Trump does have facts on his side the media and former intelligence officials colluded to say the HB laptop was Russian disinformation. We now have proof the FBI verified the laptop in 2019, a long time prior to the November, 2020 election.

Why did the FBI withhold very important information from the public? Did they interfere with the election by not correcting the letter from the 51 as false. Republicans who voted for Trump will say 100% yes, Democrats who voted for Biden will say 100% no, I am not sure how independents would vote. But polling stated if people knew the HB laptop was not Russian disinformation and in fact hos laptop, they would never have voted for Biden.

So you disagree with Trump when says he was winning and the massive dumps of fake votes suddenly stole the election from him?  Does thay put you at odds with conservatives who believe him?  I'm curious about this because the Trump supporters I know think he got more votes and/or He's still the president so it's interesting to hear this perspective. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(06-26-2023, 05:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is clear Trump had less votes and did not have enough electoral votes to best Biden. i have never disputed Trump lost. Trump does have facts on his side the media and former intelligence officials colluded to say the HB laptop was Russian disinformation. We now have proof the FBI verified the laptop in 2019, a long time prior to the November, 2020 election.

Why did the FBI withhold very important information from the public? Did they interfere with the election by not correcting the letter from the 51 as false. Republicans who voted for Trump will say 100% yes, Democrats who voted for Biden will say 100% no, I am not sure how independents would vote. But polling stated if people knew the HB laptop was not Russian disinformation and in fact hos laptop, they would never have voted for Biden.

I believe the answer to the laptop is simple. It's verified it's a real physical laptop that did belong to Hunter Biden. But what's on the laptop is what's still not been verified as what I've seen. Arguments can be made for which side of the political spectrum would like the laptop to disappear.

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2023, 05:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So you disagree with Trump when says he was winning and the massive dumps of fake votes suddenly stole the election from him?  Does thay put you at odds with conservatives who believe him?  I'm curious about this because the Trump supporters I know think he got more votes and/or He's still the president so it's interesting to hear this perspective. 

Both parties have views far right or far left. Far right believe the election was stolen with fake votes. I believe they are in the minority. I don't think Democrats understand MAGA voters. Most of us are conservatives who believe in results. Biden has done well for his base. So did Trump, he worked for his base and got results we wanted.

The issue is the country is very divided and regardless who wins the White House, the nation is splintered in half. The country needs a uniter, that is not Trump or Biden.

To answer your question, many trump supporters feel Trump was denied through election interference by social media companies Twitter and Facebook working with the FBI and DOJ to give a false narrative on Trump and the big lie was the HB laptop was fake. We now know in fact the FBI verified the HB laptop way back in 2019, yet never made it public. We now know HRC campaign's plan was to attack Trump through a false Russia claim. We know Obama, Biden and Comey were all briefed prior the 2020 election by Clapper. A memo from Clapper verifies the meeting.

So, you have the few who think Trump was cheated at the ballot box, but the majority who felt he was cheated by the FBI, DOJ with the help of liberal media colluding with years of Trump accusations, fake impeachments and doing all in their power to lie, cheat and steal a Biden election.

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2023, 06:33 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I believe the answer to the laptop is simple. It's verified it's a real physical laptop that did belong to Hunter Biden. But what's on the laptop is what's still not been verified as what I've seen. Arguments can be made for which side of the political spectrum would like the laptop to disappear.

That is simply not true. The laptop was verified in 2019 as authentic, it is liberal lie it was not verified.

Use your common sense, why would it take 5 years and still no verification of the HB laptop? I know the FBI is no longer an elite organization, but a novice could verify that laptop within 30 days. It is the whistleblowers who were told by the FBI the laptop was verified in 2019. It was the FBI who allowed Joe Biden to lie at a debate weeks prior to the election. Why????????????????

[*Synric*]

(06-26-2023, 12:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-campaign-stronger-republicans-think

Well an opinion piece by Newt Gingrich says yes republicans are underestimating Biden and I would add any other Democratic nominee.. I agree, Biden is doing things the far left wants done.

It is a long time until Nov. 2024, but the GOP better wake up. They better do a much better job of early voting as Democrats dominate the GOP in early.
voting.

There are a lot more Democrats than conservatives so in the general election, the GOP nominee always starts out behind the Democratic nominee.

I changed my mind from DeSanto to Trump. I will always believe Trump did a great job for conservatives and for the middle class. He was great on foreign policy. He almost had us energy independent. He appointed 3 constitutional Supreme Court Justices. My concern with Trump is his major weakness is his tone, not his policies. He did not learn and continues personal attacks, he needs to learn there are times we need to walk away from a fight.

I am hopeful conservatives can find a winner, not sure it is Trump anymore.

Because of the gap in the upper mid and lower classes socialist programs are becoming more prevalent and just flat out needed to help with financial support. They will receive the most support because of the volume of the lower class.

Can you imagine the voter gap if the Democrats do push through with UBI? It might be the biggest party landslide in history...

[Belsnickel]

(06-26-2023, 06:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: That is simply not true. The laptop was verified in 2019 as authentic, it is liberal lie it was not verified.

Actually, what he is saying is the objective fact of the matter. Because of the circumstances of the acquisition of the laptop as well as it being obtained under questionable circumstances there is no way to verify the contents of the laptop originating from Hunter Biden and if they were the information obtained would not be admissible in legal proceedings.

[Goalpost]

(06-26-2023, 05:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So you disagree with Trump when says he was winning and the massive dumps of fake votes suddenly stole the election from him?  Does thay put you at odds with conservatives who believe him?  I'm curious about this because the Trump supporters I know think he got more votes and/or He's still the president so it's interesting to hear this perspective. 

Part of the problem is the timing and efficiency of how the votes are counted.  Last election, it was PA, GA, Ariz, Mich, and Ore... just off the top of my head... which couldn't get their votes counted the same evening as other states.  All ended up being Democrat states.  Many of these, I think Trump was leading, but in the morning or even later, we heard otherwise.   This just adds to the drama I guess. 

[GMDino]

(06-26-2023, 08:13 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Part of the problem is the timing and efficiency of how the votes are counted.  Last election, it was PA, GA, Ariz, Mich, and Ore... just off the top of my head... which couldn't get their votes counted the same evening as other states.  All ended up being Democrat states.  Many of these, I think Trump was leading, but in the morning or even later, we heard otherwise.   This just adds to the drama I guess. 

So just clarifying for PA here:

We had a gop controlled house and senate.  The changed some rules prior to the election saying the mail in votes could not even be opened until after the polls closed.  The assumption being that most of those would be for Biden and they didn't want to discourage republican voters by seeing Trump so far behind during the polling hours.

But that's why all the votes were not counted that night.

[*Nately120*]

(06-26-2023, 08:13 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Part of the problem is the timing and efficiency of how the votes are counted.  Last election, it was PA, GA, Ariz, Mich, and Ore... just off the top of my head... which couldn't get their votes counted the same evening as other states.  All ended up being Democrat states.  Many of these, I think Trump was leading, but in the morning or even later, we heard otherwise.   This just adds to the drama I guess. 

Maybe the only reason Trump won PA and Michigan and Wisconsin in 2016 was because the votes were counted too quickly, or something.  They took their time counting all the votes in 2020 and those states went back to being blue as they have been for the past 30 years.  You don't really hear the mainstream media questioning how Trump managed to flip those states one time and then lose them again when the votes were all counted carefully.  

 If a state has gone blue every time from 1992 until 2020 other than 2016 you have to wonder what sort of inconsistencies in the voting system and machines MAY have happened to turn those states red just once, but then right back to blue the next time.

[GMDino]

(06-26-2023, 08:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe the only reason Trump won PA and Michigan and Wisconsin in 2016 was because the votes were counted too quickly, or something.  They took their time counting all the votes in 2020 and those states went back to being blue as they have been for the past 30 years.  You don't really hear the mainstream media questioning how Trump managed to flip those states one time and then lose them again when the votes were all counted carefully.  

 If a state has gone blue every time from 1992 until 2020 other than 2016 you have to wonder what sort of inconsistencies in the voting system and machines MAY have happened to turn those states red just once, but then right back to blue the next time.

You live here.  You know how he won.  He appealed to the worst of the worst who hated that we had a black president and believed Hillary ran that child abuse ring in the basement of a pizza place...that didn't have a basement.  (1/2 joking)

[Millhouse]

(06-26-2023, 12:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/biden-campaign-stronger-republicans-think

Well an opinion piece by Newt Gingrich says yes republicans are underestimating Biden and I would add any other Democratic nominee.. I agree, Biden is doing things the far left wants done.

It is a long time until Nov. 2024, but the GOP better wake up. They better do a much better job of early voting as Democrats dominate the GOP in early.
voting.

There are a lot more Democrats than conservatives so in the general election, the GOP nominee always starts out behind the Democratic nominee.

I changed my mind from DeSanto to Trump. I will always believe Trump did a great job for conservatives and for the middle class. He was great on foreign policy. He almost had us energy independent. He appointed 3 constitutional Supreme Court Justices. My concern with Trump is his major weakness is his tone, not his policies. He did not learn and continues personal attacks, he needs to learn there are times we need to walk away from a fight.

I am hopeful conservatives can find a winner, not sure it is Trump anymore.

Assuming it's a Biden/Harris ticket, I really hope Republicans can put up a relatively moderate candidate. Or at least one that distances themself from T and the Maga crowds (better odds of me winning lottery I know). But the main reason for this is that Kamala Harris would be a 82 year old heartbeat away on inauguration day, and that's scary af.

[*Nately120*]

(06-26-2023, 08:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: You live here.  You know how he won.  He appealed to the worst of the worst who hated that we had a black president and believed Hillary ran that child abuse ring in the basement of a pizza place...that didn't have a basement.  (1/2 joking)

How do we know he won?  This state hasn't gone red since 1988 but Trump wins it in 2016 only to lose it in 2020?  Then in 2022 Trump personally endorses a senate candidate who loses by  4.9 points and a gubernatorial candidate that lost by a whopping 14.8 points?  Swing state my arse...Trump 2016 looks more and more like something that should have been investigated. 

Something just doesn't add up there, but yea....swing state I mean it "totally went red for real no suspicion here" that one time.

(06-26-2023, 08:50 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Assuming it's a Biden/Harris ticket, I really hope Republicans can put up a relatively moderate candidate. Or at least one that distances themself from T and the Maga crowds (better odds of me winning lottery I know). But the main reason for this is that Kamala Harris would be a 82 year old heartbeat away on inauguration day, and that's scary af.

Even if Biden is stone dead they can use AI to convince people he's alive and just let his cabinet and advisors do the behind the scenes stuff.  Ain't no way this country is turning things over to a black woman when they can pretend an old white dude is doing all the work and give him the credit.