Austrian elections?!

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

So Hollodero, is there no age limit to holds the Prime Ministers office? I was reading in the paper today that he (I think his name Kurr?) is only 31 years old. Is this correct? Seems kind of young for a position such a position.

[Belsnickel]

(10-16-2017, 08:07 PM)hollodero Wrote: As for the rest, that's sure an interesting field of study... but doesn't it sometimes frustrate you when good ideas have to be shelved because they don't sell with the lazy, easily influenced mind that is the public. Or asked more directly, do you see it strictly professional or do you often reach the conclusion that the public opinion is quite stupid.  

It is frustrating, there is no doubt at all about that. But, that's democracy. We administrators and policy wonks know what we do, but because we are accountable to elected officials at the top level, who are accountable to the people. If the people don't want something, then it isn't going to happen. Now, what would be great is if we could rely on logical and reasonable discussions about the issues to inform voters. What we get instead is a game of political football with tons of misinformation coming from people that don't understand the policy, they just understand politics.

There are pros and cons, but I still favor a representative democracy over a technocracy.

[*michaelsean*]

And a perfectly good Austria thread goes nerd. We could be talking beer and blonds with big boobs, the breathtaking mountains, the beautiful cities, but no.

[Belsnickel]

(10-17-2017, 09:05 AM)michaelsean Wrote: And a perfectly good Austria thread goes nerd. We could be talking beer and blonds with big boobs, the breathtaking mountains, the beautiful cities, but no.

If I am posting in a thread, there is a high probability it will go nerd.

[GMDino]

(10-17-2017, 09:05 AM)michaelsean Wrote: And a perfectly good Austria thread goes nerd.  We could be talking beer and blonds with big boobs, the breathtaking mountains, the beautiful cities, but no.

If I can get a copy of them my dad has some beautiful pictures of Europe (he was stationed in Germany) from his time in the Air Force in the mid to late 60's.  If I ever could go anywhere I wanted (and afford it) I'd go there.

[hollodero]

(10-16-2017, 08:51 PM)Dill Wrote: Haderer is fantastic too, but I thought he was German. (Please don't be angry.)

I'm of course angry as hell. How dare you not to check for every person you come across on the possibility he's actually Austrian. You did it with Hitler, you might as well do it for the few good ones.

(10-17-2017, 02:10 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: So Hollodero, is there no age limit to holds the Prime Ministers office?  I was reading in the paper today that he (I think his name Kurr?) is only 31 years old.   Is this correct?  Seems kind of young for a position such a position.

Kurz, Sebastian "Basti Fantasti" Kurz. Which means "short", but never mind that.
And I know I'm supposed to have some expertise, but why people went for boycharm, I do not grasp either. He made a Macron, reinvented, recolored and renamed his party (after himself), people in Austria have a tendency to like autocratic tendencies and obviously are eager to beelieve something is "new", even though the party was in power for a thousand years.

Also the voting lists were strictly set up after the "male-female-male-female" principle. Now since the conservative party often has a quite conservative image of women, only a few female politicians were drawn to that party in the first place. Now imagine what quality we get out of this small pool of women that now constitutes 50% of lawmakers. It's really as bad as one might think.

(10-17-2017, 08:42 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: There are pros and cons, but I still favor a representative democracy over a technocracy.

Sure... although there are times I'm not so sure. We just had a campaign that really only was a race to dumbness, and it gets worse every time. Each party had to appeal to the lowest barrel of intellect there is. Including spreading lies and misinformation that could easily be debunked as stupid lie if only people were still capable of using half a brain. I can't stop thinking about how we (in Europe) widely agree that communism might be a good idea in theory, but can't work because people are too ambitious and greedy. In the same sense I think democracy is a great idea that just can't work because people are too stupid.

(10-17-2017, 09:05 AM)michaelsean Wrote: And a perfectly good Austria thread goes nerd.  We could be talking beer and blonds with big boobs

Beer is good.
As for the women, you mistake us for Sweden.

[Dill]

(10-17-2017, 08:42 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It is frustrating, there is no doubt at all about that. But, that's democracy. We administrators and policy wonks know what we do, but because we are accountable to elected officials at the top level, who are accountable to the people. If the people don't want something, then it isn't going to happen. Now, what would be great is if we could rely on logical and reasonable discussions about the issues to inform voters. What we get instead is a game of political football with tons of misinformation coming from people that don't understand the policy, they just understand politics.

There are pros and cons, but I still favor a representative democracy over a technocracy.

That used to be a no brainer for me. But now I am thinking it over. Representative democracy requires special conditions in "late modernity" I think. More attention to public education, especially in history.

Without that the cons begin to outweigh pros. 

Since Nov. 8 I've been thinking a lot about the demise of ancient Athens. Maybe you read Thucydides somewhere in your Poly Sci education? He seems to think democracy didn't work well under the stress of war. The Peloponnesian War has such apt descriptions of demagogues fooling voters because the values which make a state functional are inverted, exiling good leaders for demonstrating competence, and finally just crashing the ship of state.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-17-2017, 03:21 PM)hollodero Wrote: Kurz, Sebastian "Basti Fantasti" Kurz. Which means "short", but never mind that.
And I know I'm supposed to have some expertise, but why people went for boycharm, I do not grasp either. He made a Macron, reinvented, recolored and renamed his party (after himself), people in Austria have a tendency to like autocratic tendencies and obviously are eager to beelieve something is "new", even though the party was in power for a thousand years.

Also the voting lists were strictly set up after the "male-female-male-female" principle. Now since the conservative party often has a quite conservative image of women, only a few female politicians were drawn to that party in the first place. Now imagine what quality we get out of this small pool of women that now constitutes 50% of lawmakers. It's really as bad as one might think.

The boycharm went strong around the world recently. Macron in France, Trudeau in Canada, now Kurz in Austria.

Are you saying your political system has fixed gender quotas? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying about m-f-m-f?

[hollodero]

(10-19-2017, 09:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The boycharm went strong around the world recently. Macron in France, Trudeau in Canada, now Kurz in Austria.

Are you saying your political system has fixed gender quotas? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying about m-f-m-f?

Nah, our system hasn't. Parties have, our conservatives have a list for parliamentary seats arranged in that matter. Since only a few women feel drawn to a party that has quite conservative ideas, the pool of women is quite small though. So these quotas ensure incompetence to take a shortcut on the career ladder, at lesat I think that's the explanation for stuff. For years we had especially lousy female ministers from that party that I'd guess just got the job so no one could say gentlemen's club or misogyny. This will probably go on, hence my frustrated remarks.

That's no remark against equality or women's equal capabilities in politics or wherever. To solve discrinatory issues with deeply discriminatory means like a quota seems a bit illogical to me. But they say I'm wrong, they also say it's important that many women are in government because of women issues. Like "kids and family", always named a total women issue by our conservatives. Where I can only think, just be consistent then and claim a woman is first and foremost a mother or some BS like that and don't try to trick us with those m-f-m-f lists, so women feel great about that and vote for you. Really shows how much they actually think of them.

I deeply dislike our conservatives. :) so I might be a tiny bit unfair here. But boy charm be damned.