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[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 05:01 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Well, the video got removed.  Another situation where sensitivity prevails over reason.

For those who need to (people who are more upset that NFL players don't stand for a song than police officers getting away with murder), look up the video of the police shooting of Patrick Harmon.

It has nothing to do with sensitivity over reason; it has to do with decorum over agenda. 

If I posted graphic videos of folks getting killed in the name of our Nation and our flag, would you look at them and say maybe they deserve a couple minutes of my respect and I can stand and salute them instead of pushing my agenda at the exact moment reserved for their respect? 

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(10-09-2017, 05:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It has nothing to do with sensitivity over reason; it has to do with decorum over agenda. 

If I posted graphic videos of folks getting killed in the name of our Nation and our flag, would you look at them and say maybe they deserve a couple minutes of my respect and I can stand and salute them instead of pushing my agenda at the exact moment reserved for their respect? 

People are too sensitive, and this is another example of it, regardless of how we spin it. This is PC culture at work: I don't like what you're saying so I'm going to complain and censor it.


The agenda (which is what we call being against police murdering citizens and getting away with it, I guess) is more important than your (or anyone else's) feelings.

[*jason*]

(10-08-2017, 09:49 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Well, DTV folded under the pressure, with all the complaints about the anthem, and gave the Ticket back to everyone with no charge.

At first, that meant nothing to me, but then I saw that there have only been 6 NFL teams that have not had one person kneel, sit, or lift their fists in the air, since CK started all this foolishness, and the Bengals are one of the 6.

Soooo ... I kept the ticket, free of charge, and decided to watch JUST Bengals games.

I will see how this anthem foolishness plays out, but in the mean time, I will watch the games, but will not wring my hands over this team and pick it apart.

I agree with FIK on the game today. When you have two starting CBs go down in the first half, the star receiver takes responsibility for 3 turnovers, losing the turnover battle 3-1, a suspect running game and OL, a gimpy starting QB, against a 3-1 team who just came off an away victory, against a team that should have won the SB last year, getting a needed first down to 'finish' off the win, (which I've rarely seen them do in the past), all of this in the pouring rain, and come out with a victory .... it's a pretty good day!!

If I payed for that, and you were getting it for free, I'd be kinda pissed. It's like paying for groceries while someone else uses food stamps... No?

The folks at direct TV are idiots. They're getting what they deserve when they pulled this to appease all of the outraged football fans. This whole situation is a joke... Just like these lil "boycotts".

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 05:29 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: People are too sensitive, and this is another example of it, regardless of how we spin it. This is PC culture at work: I don't like what you're saying so I'm going to complain and censor it.


The agenda (which is what we call being against police murdering citizens and getting away with it, I guess) is more important than your (or anyone else's) feelings.

Once again, No one in their right mind is for "police murdering citizens and getting away with it", that's just a made up thing folks use as a reason to disrespect this Nation, Flag, and those that died for it.

You can spend 23 hours, 55 minutes, and 27 second of every 24 hours spitting your jargon, But let's give those that have sacrificed for us a couple minutes when decorum asks for it.  

[Dill]

(10-09-2017, 05:12 PM)jason Wrote: These clowns are absurd. The people that eat it up are even worse.

Someone... Anyone... Explain to me how Mr Trump's statement isn't exponentially more disrespectful toward veterans than kneeling during the national anthem.

I know that I just wasted my time posting this, because nobody can explain it away.... Nobody. Don't even try to because you'll look foolish.

Never stopped me before.  I'll take a stab at it.

I think it is pretty clear that military members who let themselves get captured are weak "losers."  Strong, competent fighters do not do that.

Trump is making the US a nation of winners, so what place POWs could have in a successful America? They are not a model for success. Trump was right to call out McCain. Do you want your kids looking up to a guy who spent years relaxing in the Hanoi Hilton while the rest of his unit was fighting the war?  He's just hanging there with his arms strapadoed while the other pilots do the work. If you really think about it, maybe the US should take this a step further and dock McCain's salary to pay for the plane he lost too.

Combat veterans may have a different view of this. They may want to honor anyone who puts his body on the line for the US. You don't get captured if you don't serve, if you are not in harm's way. They may have friends who were captured and tortured, too.  So they are all emotional and biased in favor of their buddies. And they may see standing for the flag as respect for all who have sacrificed for the US, especially those who made the ultimate sacrifice. 

Anyway, that is why we need a leader who has never been in combat or in the military, someone with the strength to see past all the feelings and emotion about lost comrades.  Someone who could look a returning POW in the eye and say, "You didn't get the job done. You're fired!" while stoking the nationalist spirit which drives modern wars to keep their comrades' support.

So in conclusion, if you can sound sufficiently nationalist while scapegoating others' exercising their free speech regarding a basic civil rights issue, you not only get around being disrespectful to POWs but get massive numbers of veterans on your side and maybe encourage them to delegitimize or even oppose the civil rights issue.

No Democrat could get away with this so you might give Trump credit for pulling it off.

[MrRager]

(10-09-2017, 05:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Once again, No one in their right mind is against "police murdering citizens and getting away with it", that's just a made up thing folks use as a reason to disrespect this Nation, Flag, and those that died for it.

You can spend 23 hours, 55 minutes, and 27 second of every 24 hours spitting your jargon, But let's give those that have sacrificed for us a couple minutes when decorum asks for it.  

Well that is the entire point of the protest isn't it? These people feel like the nation and its peoples are not making progress towards stopping/punishing those cops who kill citizens and get away with it. We see time and time a again very minor punishments for these crimes and these departments backing these criminals. So they may not be strictly against police murdering citizens and getting away with it, but they sure aren't trying so help fix the issue. That is why they are kneeling, to bring light to what they perceive as unjust. 

And I haven't had much time to comment on everything here so this seems like a reasonable thread to say my peace about the issue so the rest of this post may not be speaking directly to you.

Starting a public protest is a great way to bring attention to the issue and create a platform to voice their opinions on the subject for those who are unable to speak out themselves. It seems so backwards to me that people would boycott because someone is utilizing their first amendment right to try and bring justice and equality to this nation. The act of kneeling for the flag and protesting is about as American as it gets and trying to stop people from criticizing our Nation is inherently anti-American and borderline fascist.

Also, when did the flag become synonymous with just the military? The flag represents much more than that. It represents me, you, the government, everything and everyone in this nation. By not standing for the Anthem you are displaying your dissatisfaction with how some people are treated in this nation. Many people who kneel for the Anthem have explicitly said they respect our military and those who have fought for our right to even kneel in the first place so I am not sure why this uproar started in the first place. The entire protest has nothing to do with the military and it seems like the only reason to be upset is if you are actually for the murder of civilians, which I am sure no one actually is. 

Finally, on the boycott I love this tweet from a former Bengal: 


This protesting is where you draw the line on watching the NFL? That seems pretty weak all things considered.     

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 06:21 PM)MrRager Wrote: Well that is the entire point of the protest isn't it? These people feel like the nation and its peoples are not making progress towards stopping/punishing those cops who kill citizens and get away with it. We see time and time a again very minor punishments for these crimes and these departments backing these criminals. So they may not be strictly against police murdering citizens and getting away with it, but they sure aren't trying so help fix the issue. That is why they are kneeling, to bring light to what they perceive as unjust. 

And I haven't had much time to comment on everything here so this seems like a reasonable thread to say my peace about the issue so the rest of this post may not be speaking directly to you.

Starting a public protest is a great way to bring attention to the issue and create a platform to voice their opinions on the subject for those who are unable to speak out themselves. It seems so backwards to me that people would boycott because someone is utilizing their first amendment right to try and bring justice and equality to this nation. The act of kneeling for the flag and protesting is about as American as it gets and trying to stop people from criticizing our Nation is inherently anti-American and borderline fascist.

Also, when did the flag become synonymous with just the military? The flag represents much more than that. It represents me, you, the government, everything and everyone in this nation. By not standing for the Anthem you are displaying your dissatisfaction with how some people are treated in this nation. Many people who kneel for the Anthem have explicitly said they respect our military and those who have fought for our right to even kneel in the first place so I am not sure why this uproar started in the first place. The entire protest has nothing to do with the military and it seems like the only reason to be upset is if you are actually for the murder of civilians, which I am sure no one actually is. 

Finally, on the boycott I love this tweet from a former Bengal: 


This protesting is where you draw the line on watching the NFL? That seems pretty weak all things considered.     

This is what I have said since the beginning. The purpose of the kneeling is to show disrespect to the Flag and the Nation it stands for. How anyone can say it does not disrespect either is beyond my comprehension. 

Sure they have the right, but just make sure you know: If you are supporting those that kneel, you are supporting those that have made a conscious effort to disrespect the flag. 

I suppose Francis Scott Key made the Anthem and Flag relative to those that fight for the Nation  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-09-2017, 06:05 PM)Dill Wrote: Never stopped me before.  I'll take a stab at it.

I think it is pretty clear that military members who let themselves get captured are weak "losers."  Strong, competent fighters do not do that.

Trump is making the US a nation of winners, so what place POWs could have in a successful America? They are not a model for success. Trump was right to call out McCain. Do you want your kids looking up to a guy who spent years relaxing in the Hanoi Hilton while the rest of his unit was fighting the war?  He's just hanging there with his arms strapadoed while the other pilots do the work. If you really think about it, maybe the US should take this a step further and dock McCain's salary to pay for the plane he lost too.

Combat veterans may have a different view of this. They may want to honor anyone who puts his body on the line for the US. You don't get captured if you don't serve, if you are not in harm's way. They may have friends who were captured and tortured, too.  So they are all emotional and biased in favor of their buddies. And they may see standing for the flag as respect for all who have sacrificed for the US, especially those who made the ultimate sacrifice. 

Anyway, that is why we need a leader who has never been in combat or in the military, someone with the strength to see past all the feelings and emotion about lost comrades.  Someone who could look a returning POW in the eye and say, "You didn't get the job done. You're fired!" while stoking the nationalist spirit which drives modern wars to keep their comrades' support.

So in conclusion, if you can sound sufficiently nationalist while scapegoating others' exercising their free speech regarding a basic civil rights issue, you not only get around being disrespectful to POWs but get massive numbers of veterans on your side and maybe encourage them to delegitimize or even oppose the civil rights issue.

No Democrat could get away with this so you might give Trump credit for pulling it off.

Dill, in Trump's defense he always felt like he was in the military because his daddy sent him to a military boarding school during high school despite all the subsequent draft deferments to specifically keep his ass out of the military. Probably where he learned as much as the Generals. He unequivocally stated that's where he received the same training as the service members actually going to Vietnam.

[MrRager]

(10-09-2017, 06:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is what I have said since the beginning. The purpose of the kneeling is to show disrespect to the Flag and the Nation it stands for. How anyone can say it does not disrespect either is beyond my comprehension. 

Sure they have the right, but just make sure you know: If you are supporting those that kneel, you are supporting those that have made a conscious effort to disrespect the flag. 

I suppose Francis Scott Key made the Anthem and Flag relative to those that fight for the Nation  

I guess they are showing it disrespect, but I guess the reason why they are doing it is why I am okay with it. They disrespect the flag because the nation it represents is not treating  a portion of its population equally or with any respect. Disrespecting the flag to make our country a better place for many  seems okay to me. 

And just make sure you know: opposing those who protest nonviolently (not about what they are protesting, but just the act itself) and boycotting the NFL because of this is extremely anti-American and goes against the very foundation of our country. 

Also, I didn't realize Francis Scott Key made the flag?

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 07:11 PM)MrRager Wrote: I guess they are showing it disrespect, but I guess the reason why they are doing it is why I am okay with it. They disrespect the flag because the nation it represents is not treating  a portion of its population equally or with any respect. Disrespecting the flag to make our country a better place for many  seems okay to me. 

And just make sure you know: opposing those who protest nonviolently (not about what they are protesting, but just the act itself) and boycotting the NFL because of this is extremely anti-American and goes against the very foundation of our country. 

Also, I didn't realize Francis Scott Key made the flag?

At least you are honest enough to state that you understand they are disrespecting the Flag and the Nation it stands for and feel their reasoning is justified. Just know I do not.

You do not need to tell me what is anti- American and folks can say "foundation of the country" all they want. I view disrespecting the very symbol of this freedom as going against the Foundation of our country. The radical Muslim has the right to preach and protest that Sharia should be the law of our Nation and the white supremacists has the right to protest and preach his hate; however, anyone that opposes their message is not someone I would consider extremely anti-American.  

Finally, I didn't say FSK made the flag; not sure where you got that.   

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(10-09-2017, 07:11 PM)MrRager Wrote: And just make sure you know: opposing those who protest nonviolently (not about what they are protesting, but just the act itself) and boycotting the NFL because of this is extremely anti-American and goes against the very foundation of our country. 

In other words, it's only patriotic to protest things that I think should be protested.

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 07:22 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: In other words, it's only patriotic to protest things that I think should be protested.

Is it Patriotic for the White Supremacist to protest the removal of statues?

Do you support their right to do so?

Do you agree with their Message?

[MrRager]

(10-09-2017, 06:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I suppose Francis Scott Key made the Anthem and Flag relative to those that fight for the Nation  

(10-09-2017, 07:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: At least you are honest enough to state that you understand they are disrespecting the Flag and the Nation it stands for and feel their reasoning is justified. Just know I do not.

You do not need to tell me what is anti- American and folks can say "foundation of the country" all they want. I view disrespecting the very symbol of this freedom as going against the Foundation of our country. The radical Muslim has the right to preach and protest that Sharia should be the law of our Nation and the white supremacists has the right to protest and preach his hate; however, anyone that opposes their message is not someone I would consider extremely anti-American.  

Finally, I didn't say FSK made the flag; not sure where you got that.   

I never called anyone who opposes the message anti-American, but opposes their right to do it. You haven't been someone who thinks these people should be punished or have started a boycott against the NFL so nothing you are doing in anti-American in my eyes. But there are people out there who are completely outraged and think these people should not be allowed to kneel for the flag. That is what drives me crazy. Personally, I think they should be allowed and it is extremely fascist to FORCE people in this nation to drone on about how great this country is or force kids to parrot a poem in school that they probably don't even pay attention to what they are saying. They are disrespecting a flag that represents a government that they feel disrespects them and it seems like the most effective way to get the country talking. 

(10-09-2017, 07:22 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: In other words, it's only patriotic to protest things that I think should be protested.

Nah, not what I said. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-09-2017, 07:36 PM)MrRager Wrote: I never called anyone who opposes the message anti-American, but opposes their right to do it. You haven't been someone who thinks these people should be punished or have started a boycott against the NFL so nothing you are doing in anti-American in my eyes. But there are people out there who are completely outraged and think these people should not be allowed to kneel for the flag. That is what drives me crazy. Personally, I think they should be allowed and it is extremely fascist to FORCE people in this nation to drone on about how great this country is or force kids to parrot a poem in school that they probably don't even pay attention to what they are saying. They are disrespecting a flag that represents a government that they feel disrespects them and it seems like the most effective way to get the country talking. 
Nah, not what I said. 

As to your quote about FSK. It simply answered the question about who made the Flag stand for the Military; not actually you sewed the cloth together. Everybody knows that was Betty Crocker.

As to the rest: As I said kudos for understanding they are disrespecting the Flag and Nation and I appreciate your POV. I just disagree with your stance that it is justified; as those that died for that Flag did nothing to disrespect anyone.

I know.  

[MrRager]

(10-09-2017, 07:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As to your quote about FSK. It simply answered the question about who made the Flag stand for the Military; not actually you sewed the cloth together. Everybody knows that was Betty Crocker.

As to the rest: As I said kudos for understanding they are disrespecting the Flag and Nation and I appreciate your POV. I just disagree with your stance that it is justified; as those that died for that Flag did nothing to disrespect anyone.

I know.  

I just don't agree that the people who have died are really being disrespected in any way. I don't see it as disrespecting them, just the system that is allowing people to be killed without repercussions. 

[*jason*]

(10-09-2017, 06:05 PM)Dill Wrote: Never stopped me before.  I'll take a stab at it.

I think it is pretty clear that military members who let themselves get captured are weak "losers."  Strong, competent fighters do not do that.

Trump is making the US a nation of winners, so what place POWs could have in a successful America? They are not a model for success. Trump was right to call out McCain. Do you want your kids looking up to a guy who spent years relaxing in the Hanoi Hilton while the rest of his unit was fighting the war?  He's just hanging there with his arms strapadoed while the other pilots do the work. If you really think about it, maybe the US should take this a step further and dock McCain's salary to pay for the plane he lost too.

Combat veterans may have a different view of this. They may want to honor anyone who puts his body on the line for the US. You don't get captured if you don't serve, if you are not in harm's way. They may have friends who were captured and tortured, too.  So they are all emotional and biased in favor of their buddies. And they may see standing for the flag as respect for all who have sacrificed for the US, especially those who made the ultimate sacrifice. 

Anyway, that is why we need a leader who has never been in combat or in the military, someone with the strength to see past all the feelings and emotion about lost comrades.  Someone who could look a returning POW in the eye and say, "You didn't get the job done. You're fired!" while stoking the nationalist spirit which drives modern wars to keep their comrades' support.

So in conclusion, if you can sound sufficiently nationalist while scapegoating others' exercising their free speech regarding a basic civil rights issue, you not only get around being disrespectful to POWs but get massive numbers of veterans on your side and maybe encourage them to delegitimize or even oppose the civil rights issue.

No Democrat could get away with this so you might give Trump credit for pulling it off.

It is amazing that he survived those comments politically. I guess people's tunnel vision just blinds them on their quest for personal affirmation.

[CKwi88]

(10-09-2017, 08:22 PM)MrRager Wrote: I just don't agree that the people who have died are really being disrespected in any way. I don't see it as disrespecting them, just the system that is allowing people to be killed without repercussions. 

About 80% of my coworkers are not American born. More than one has asked me why it's seen as disrespectful.

I guess it's tougher to understand when you come from of a country where indoctrinated patriotism isn't a thing.

[Shake n Blake]

(10-09-2017, 08:22 PM)MrRager Wrote: I just don't agree that the people who have died are really being disrespected in any way. I don't see it as disrespecting them, just the system that is allowing people to be killed without repercussions. 

So you think Marines, Soldiers, Airmen and Sailors are buried with a symbol of a "system"?

Or is it possible the Flag has always represented far more than that? To me it represents freedom and unity.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-09-2017, 08:35 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: About 80% of my coworkers are not American born. More than one has asked me why it's seen as disrespectful.

I guess it's tougher to understand when you come from of a country where indoctrinated patriotism isn't a thing.

Obviously many of your coworkers aren't American citizens.  However, if they came from Nations with a little pride, perhaps they would understand.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-09-2017, 09:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So you think Marines, Soldiers, Airmen and Sailors are buried with a symbol of a "system"?

Or is it possible the Flag has always represented far more than that? To me it represents freedom and unity.

Trump sure did unite everyone with his son of a ***** comment.

Silent protest = son of a *****

Unite the Right rally = very fine people on both sides