Bad Boys II

[Belsnickel]

This looks a lot like a bad shoot: https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10/13/fort-worth-police-officer-shoots-and-kills-black-woman-home/

Quote:A white police officer shot and killed a black Fort Worth woman in a home while responding to a request for a wellness check Saturday, police said.

Body camera footage shows the officer surveying the area around the house after seeing an open front door. The officer opens the backyard gate, notices movement in the window and shouts, “Put your hands up, show me your hands.” Within a breath of this order, the officer fired a shot through the window killing 28-year-old Atatiana Jefferson, according to the Fort Worth Police Department.

Jefferson's 8-year-old nephew was in the room at the time she was killed, police said.

Officials said the officer did not announce himself as law enforcement prior to giving orders or shooting the woman. They said that will be addressed in their investigation.

In the video released by Fort Worth police, the department magnified a frame of the video and labeled it as a weapon laying in the bedroom. A department press release also noted that a firearm was found in the home. The department's statement does not say if the woman was holding the gun or what threat the officer perceived.

At a press conference Sunday, police declined to say whether the woman used the weapon in a way that made the officer feel threatened. They also declined to say why they released information about the gun if they weren't going to explain its relevance.

The officer, whose identity was not released, has been placed on administrative leave. Jefferson's death comes less than two weeks after former Dallas police officer Amber Guyger, was sentenced to 10 years for the murder of Botham Jean in his Dallas home. Guyger mistook Jean's apartment for her own and shot and killed him after entering it.

The murder of Jean, who was black, sparked emotional conversations about the relationship between race, policing and the American criminal justice system in not only Dallas but across the United States.

WFAA-TV reported Sunday that activists, protestors and Fort Worth residents gathered near Jefferson's home for a vigil that became a protest march. Fort Worth Mayor Betsy Price attended the vigil and told WFAA there would be a third-party investigation into the shooting.

Jefferson’s neighbor, 62-year-old James Smith asked for a wellness check after noticing the woman’s door was open, something he found unusual. Smith told the Washington Post he feels he’s partially to blame for Jefferson’s death because if he hadn’t made the call, Jefferson would be alive.

“It makes you not want to call the police department. Because not just Dallas or other incidents, if you don’t feel safe with the police department, then who do you feel safe with?" Smith said. "Do you just ignore crime or ignore something that’s not right? They tell you if you see something, say something. Well if you do that and you cause somebody to lose their life it makes you not want to do that and that’s sad.”

At Sunday's press conference, police declined to comment on how officers are supposed to respond to welfare calls.

The same conversation about how police interact with people of color spurred in Dallas seems to be forming around the shooting of Jefferson, with community officials making calls for justice similar to those heard after the shooting of Jean.

Community members gathered in Greater Saint Stephen First Church where the Rev. Kyev Tatum demanded transparency from Fort Worth police.

“You cannot continue to kill people and justify it because they are law enforcement," he said, according to WFAA-TV.

Lee Merritt, the Dallas-based civil rights attorney that is representing Jean’s family said on Facebook that he is now representing Jefferson’s family. In the post, Merritt said Jefferson was playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew when she went to investigate a “prowler” outside the window, which was the officer that shot her.

A Xavier University of Louisiana graduate and “beautiful peaceful woman," Jefferson was tending to the house of her mother who recently fell ill and was hospitalized, Merritt told The Washington Post.

“There was no reason for her to be murdered. None,” he said. “We must have justice.”

Among many activists, legal scholars, and black Americans, Guyger’s conviction was a marked shift after a long history of seemingly insufficient justice for cases of black Americans killed by white police officers.

However, it remains to be seen if this Fort Worth case will replicate the cadence of Dallas. Within a month of Jean’s 2018 death, the Dallas district attorney and Texas Rangers had opened independent investigations, Guyger was fired and she was charged with manslaughter.

A month later, a grand jury upgraded the charges to murder, the charge on which the jury convicted Guyger, according to a Dallas Morning News timeline. The Tarrant County District Attorney’s office said Sunday they did not have a statement on Jefferson’s death.

Fort Worth police drew scrutiny and accusations of excessive force in 2016 when a video of a white officer arresting a black mother spread across social media.

[Au165]

(10-14-2019, 12:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This looks a lot like a bad shoot: https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10/13/fort-worth-police-officer-shoots-and-kills-black-woman-home/

This guy probably should be looking at some sort of criminal negligence charge. 

[Belsnickel]

(10-14-2019, 12:53 PM)Au165 Wrote: This guy probably should be looking at some sort of criminal negligence charge. 

Indeed. And, honestly, it almost looks to me like what happened was a negligent discharge. Don't know that for sure, but it seems like not only was there a lack of announcing himself as police but also a lack of trigger discipline.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-14-2019, 12:53 PM)Au165 Wrote: This guy probably should be looking at some sort of criminal negligence charge. 

(10-14-2019, 12:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Indeed. And, honestly, it almost looks to me like what happened was a negligent discharge. Don't know that for sure, but it seems like not only was there a lack of announcing himself as police but also a lack of trigger discipline.

From what I've seen, I agree.

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2019, 12:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This looks a lot like a bad shoot: https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10/13/fort-worth-police-officer-shoots-and-kills-black-woman-home/

Why do the police always have to make it worse by doing things like releasing a photo of a "weapon" and then refusing to comment on it.

I remember when Guyger killed that guy the police almost immediately released a story about finding pot in his apartment.

I know police love "The Blue Wall", but they don't seem to realize that it is one of the biggest reasons many people have problems trusting law enforcement.

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2019, 12:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This looks a lot like a bad shoot: https://www.texastribune.org/2019/10/13/fort-worth-police-officer-shoots-and-kills-black-woman-home/

Seems like a terrible move by the Leo. But when a story of such tragedy leads with: "White cop kills black woman" then there is little wonder why we are so divided as a society. By reading the story there's a possibility this dude saw nothing more than a shadow; much less took the time to racial profile.  

[GMDino]

(10-14-2019, 06:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems like a terrible move by the Leo. But when a story of such tragedy leads with: "White cop kills black woman" then there is little wonder why we are so divided as a society. By reading the story there's a possibility this dude saw nothing more than a shadow; much less took the time to racial profile.  

True.  He could just be incompetent and not racist.  

I suppose that's better.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-14-2019, 07:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: True.  He could just be incompetent and not racist.  

I suppose that's better.  

Actually, yeah, since you want to put a scale on things.  The end result is the same for the family and friends but clearly motivation is a concern or we wouldn't have hate crime laws, would we?

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2019, 10:42 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Actually, yeah, since you want to put a scale on things.  The end result is the same for the family and friends but clearly motivation is a concern or we wouldn't have hate crime laws, would we?

I will admit it took me denying it for a while but that dude is free to say, do, post anything he wants in the forum with absolutely no accountability. I've quit responding to him and have just let his constant insults go unchecked. I hope folks are proud of what they have done to this forum. It's dying and that's sad. 

[GMDino]

(10-14-2019, 10:42 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Actually, yeah, since you want to put a scale on things.  The end result is the same for the family and friends but clearly motivation is a concern or we wouldn't have hate crime laws, would we?

*I* don't want to do anything of the sort.

The shooters motivations will come out in trial hopefully.  

I also don't wish to deflect from the tragedy by trying to talk about whether the officer killed someone because of their race right out of the gate.

Nothing will bring this young woman back. Maybe THIS time something will be learned that can be helpful in stopping the NEXT time from happening? Can't stop every time but you can pay attention and try to learn from them.

[GMDino]

Wow.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2019/10/14/brady-lists-police-officers-dishonest-corrupt-still-testify-investigation-database/2233386001/

Long article.  We need to do better.  Police have a very hard job.  The ones that do it poorly need pointed out, removed and learned from...not covered up.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-15-2019, 07:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: *I* don't want to do anything of the sort.

The shooters motivations will come out in trial hopefully.

Until then you'll just speculate on them.  

Quote:I also don't wish to deflect from the tragedy by trying to talk about whether the officer killed someone because of their race right out of the gate.

Except you did exactly that.

(10-14-2019, 07:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: True.  He could just be incompetent and not racist.  

I suppose that's better.   

  indeed.

Quote:Nothing will bring this young woman back.  Maybe THIS time something will be learned that can be  helpful in stopping the NEXT time from happening?  Can't stop every time but you can pay attention and try to learn from them.

Possibly, and believe me when I say that happens every time it's possible.

[GMDino]

(10-15-2019, 11:17 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Until then you'll just speculate on them.  



Except you did exactly that.

I did zero speculation. I responded to someone who did. Maybe I need that sarcasm font?

(10-15-2019, 11:17 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Possibly, and believe me when I say that happens every time it's possible.

I don't doubt that...and I don't doubt every time it needs to be shared and talked about. It's a tragedy all the way around.

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2019, 06:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems like a terrible move by the Leo. But when a story of such tragedy leads with: "White cop kills black woman" then there is little wonder why we are so divided as a society. By reading the story there's a possibility this dude saw nothing more than a shadow; much less took the time to racial profile.  

One of the privileges we have as white people is that we don't have to look at policemen as people who profile us based on race.  So sometimes it is hard for us to understand why race plays such a big part in these type of situations.  The fact is that police profile and lie about it.

Once you know that police profile people of your race then you are going to be justified in having concerns every time a police officer shoots a black person.  It is like being in a relationship with a woman who has been proven to cheat on you.  You are always going to be suspicious.  The problem is that African Americans can't break up with the police.

And it doesn't even have to be a white police officer.  Black cops are also involved in profiling people based on race.

[ballsofsteel]

"White cop kills black woman" . One of the few things we know about this tragedy that is actual fact. Don't let that get in the way spinning things.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-15-2019, 05:58 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: "White cop kills black woman" . One of the few things we know about this tragedy that is actual fact. Don't let that get in the way spinning things.

Who exactly is spinning?

[*bfine32*]

Seems there might be another reason other that skin color that this dumbass pulled the trigger:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-woman-shot-officer-had-175635837.html

Quote:A Texas woman was shot dead by a Fort Worth police officer in her home after she heard noises outside, picked up a handgun and pointed it at a window, the officer's arrest warrant showed on Tuesday.

WTF, didn't the dude just knock on the open front door?

[Belsnickel]

(10-15-2019, 09:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems there might be another reason other that skin color that this dumbass pulled the trigger:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-woman-shot-officer-had-175635837.html


WTF, didn't the dude just knock on the open front door?

That's the biggest issue, here, and one some of the cops and former cops I follow on social media have been saying. Every one of them had said that based on their training and procedures, for a call like this one officer goes to the back door while another officer knocks loudly at the front and announces "police." This covers both entrances and announcing yourself sets things in motion. Since there was no announcement of police, even when he was telling her to put her hands up, she was completely within her rights to have that firearm ready to go to protect her and her nephew (I believe it was). Every cop I follow was like "if I was that homeowner in that situation, you better believe I'd have my handgun ready to go."

Honestly, from the get go on this, my take has been that this wasn't malicious. This cop made a mistake, a tragic one. I don't know how long he had been an officer, but that seemed like a more "rookie" mistake. Failure to announce and a lack of trigger discipline. That being said, when an officer sees a gun there is going to be that immediate response to end a threat to the public and themselves. It's completely understandable to me what happened, but that doesn't excuse it.

[GMDino]

(10-16-2019, 09:42 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's the biggest issue, here, and one some of the cops and former cops I follow on social media have been saying. Every one of them had said that based on their training and procedures, for a call like this one officer goes to the back door while another officer knocks loudly at the front and announces "police." This covers both entrances and announcing yourself sets things in motion. Since there was no announcement of police, even when he was telling her to put her hands up, she was completely within her rights to have that firearm ready to go to protect her and her nephew (I believe it was). Every cop I follow was like "if I was that homeowner in that situation, you better believe I'd have my handgun ready to go."

Honestly, from the get go on this, my take has been that this wasn't malicious. This cop made a mistake, a tragic one. I don't know how long he had been an officer, but that seemed like a more "rookie" mistake. Failure to announce and a lack of trigger discipline. That being said, when an officer sees a gun there is going to be that immediate response to end a threat to the public and themselves. It's completely understandable to me what happened, but that doesn't excuse it.

From the initial reports I think they said he was on the force since 2018.

We have to train these guys better.  Period.

This "mistake" took an innocent life, in her own home.

No excuses.  Find out why this man didn't know or follow procedure for a non-emergency welfare check and fix it.

[GMDino]

Meanwhile....

https://www.theroot.com/like-a-prisoner-in-my-own-home-black-nj-family-says-th-1838980994

Quote:The definition of loitering, as it relates to criminal offense, generally runs along the lines of this: to hang around a public place with no expressed—particularly, legal—purpose. It follows then, that one place you can’t loiter in, by definition, is your home; a very not public place where the expectation is you do whatever (hopefully legal) **** you want.



This was not the case for a black Pennsylvania family. As KYW Newsradio reports, one family is questioning why the Chester Police Department arrested them—twice—for allegedly “loitering” in their own yard.

The chain of police buffoonery kicked off on Oct. 1, when Officer Pasquale Storace III arrested Rachel Briggs’ sons and nephew for playing in her front yard; Storace, who is white, charged the young men with “loitering.”


According to Briggs, the boys were thrown in jail, forcing their families to scramble to raise money for their bail. When they were freed the next day, family members were on hand to welcome them back—right back on Briggs’ front lawn.

Some of the arrests were caught on video. As police arrest two of the family members, family members scream and beg for an explanation.


“They maced my son. He got asthma,” Briggs says later, as her son sits in the cop car. “My son can’t breathe, sir.”

According to Briggs’ family lawyer, Storace showed up and re-arrested the boys, along with other members of their family, charging them with loitering and resisting arrest. Attorney Kevin Mincey said the family wasn’t violating any of the township’s loitering statutes, which have been updated after being deemed unconstitutional in 2012.


“It essentially says there are to be well-posted areas of no loitering signs up that say ‘no loitering.’ There are no ‘no loitering’ signs in this particular neighborhood,” Mincey told KYW.


The family is traumatized from the arrests,


“It’s a terrifying thing,” Briggs told KYW. “It makes me feel as though the police can knock down your door, and drag you out of your home at any time. This is an incident that made me feel like I’m a prisoner in my own home.”



Corrected Monday, Oct. 14 at 10:28 am ET: An earlier version of this story incorrectly stated the arrests happened in Chester Township, N.J. The incident actually occurred in Chester Township, Penn.