Before You Go Over Board Remember The Past

[GodFather]

So far it seems like everyone thought we overwhelmingly hit a homer with this years draft giving the Bengals an A overall by the board poll. I absolutely remember though this being the case for the past few years and everyone getting so excited by the draft choices and thinking the Bengals were going far from such draft choices. (to be fair critic grades too)

But were they so great? Here is the past two years to reflect on the Bengal choices. Do you still give them that overwhelming "A" that was perceived in 2015/2016? (Im not talking individual posters but as a whole instead as it should be)

Why am I bringing this up? Because this is usually the reaction every year with very different outcomes as the season began on expectations.

Do I think we had a "great A grade" draft this year? No way, but I also don't think we had a bad one either. There are so many factors involved in the success of these players that its hard to see how they will perform this year, one being coaching and I don't even want to go there because it would warrant its own thread and has already been talked to death.



2015 Draft

1 Cedric Ogbuehi OT
2 Jake Fisher OT
3 Tyler Kroft TE
3 Paul Dawson LB
4 Josh Shaw DB
4 Marcus Hardison DL
5 C.J. Uzomah TE
6 Derron Smith S
7 Mario Alford WR

2016 Draft

1 William Jackson III CB
2 Tyler Boyd WR
3 Nick "Rattail" Vigil LB
4 Andrew Billings DT
5 Christian Westerman OG
6 Cody Core WR
7 Clayton Fejedelem S

[motoarch]

This team has a very good history of drafts and it too soon to know how good or bad 15 or 16 are. Come down from the ledge.

[3wt]

I never gave 2015 an "A" because I never liked the Ogbuehi pick. I think the 2016 draft has the chance to be a "A" though.

[fredtoast]

There are also certain people who hate most of the picks every year.

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2017, 10:44 PM)motoarch Wrote:  it too soon to know how good or bad 15 or 16 are.  Come down from the ledge.

This.

I actually saw a guy complaining because we did not draft a Pro Bowl player last season.  It is rare for players to make the Pro Bowl as a rookie.  You can't judge these drafts for a couple of years.

[The Real Deal]

(04-30-2017, 10:38 PM)GodFather Wrote: So far it seems like everyone thought we overwhelmingly hit a homer with this years draft giving the Bengals an A overall by the board poll. I absolutely remember though this being the case for the past few years and everyone getting so excited by the draft choices and thinking the Bengals were going far from such draft choices. (to be fair critic grades too)

But were they so great? Here is the past two years to reflect on the Bengal choices. Do you still give them that overwhelming "A" that was perceived in 2015/2016? (Im not talking individual posters but as a whole instead as it should be)

Why am I bringing this up? Because this is usually the reaction every year with very different outcomes as the season began on expectations.

Do I think we had a "great A grade" draft this year? No way, but I also don't think we had a bad one either. There are so many factors involved in the success of these players that its hard to see how they will perform this year, one being coaching and I don't even want to go there because it would warrant its own thread and has already been talked to death.





2016 Draft

1 William Jackson III CB
2 Tyler Boyd WR
3 Nick "Rattail" Vigil LB
4 Andrew Billings DT
5 Christian Westerman OG
6 Cody Core WR
7 Clayton Fejedelem S

Are you really questioning this draft?

1. Unknown, but let's face it, once healthy will see a lot of playing time.

2. Starting slot receiver.

3.at the moment, penciled in as a base 4-3 starter. Will get tons of time at LB this year.

4. Penciled in as starter beside geno.

5. Easily makes team as backup guard.

6. Made plays at WR last year. Has a strong chance to do the same this season.

7. Was great on ST and even played meaningful snaps at safety on defense.

To me, injuries skewed it, but 2016 was a pretty damn good draft even without wj3 and billings. And It'll only prove to be even better this season, with those two returning. Using 2016 is Poor reasoning when trying to downplay past drafts. Call it incomplete if you like, but please refrain from using it as an example of failure because it makes you look ridiculous.

[Benton]

I loved last year. I didn't think WJIII was a need, but he was a solid player. Boyd is going to be good. Vigil, Billings and Westerman should all be future contributors. Core could get some playing time but probably not on this team, and would be an upgrade for some teams at their 3-4 options.

But 2015, I liked Shaw, Fisher and Alford. The rest ranged from head scratching to bad.

I guess I just like even years.

2014: McCarron, Dennard, Hill, Flowers, Clarke
2013: Eifert and Burkhead were really the only picks I got excited over, even though we had 10
2012: Dre, Zeitler, Still, Sanu, Thompson, Jones, Iloka (I loved this draft)
2011: I liked AJ and Moch, but hated everything else. Admittedly, I was happily wrong about the QB we took that year. AD has turned out to be one of our best.

[GodFather]

(04-30-2017, 10:44 PM)motoarch Wrote: This team has a very good history of drafts and it too soon to know how good or bad 15 or 16 are.  Come down from the ledge.

Thats your opinion this team drafts very well and is my point of this thread. Your using your emotions, because this team doesn't draft the best nor the worst in the NFL, they lie somewhere in between.



Here are some views that are quite the contrary to your "very good" comment.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/nfl-draft-performance-grades-best-drafting-teams-picks-classes-2012-2016

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-teams-picks-draft-records-ranked-2012-present-030117

http://nypost.com/2017/04/22/studying-5-years-of-nfl-drafts-to-find-best-worst-teams-at-picking/

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15414561/ranking-best-worst-drafting-teams-round-1-carolina-panthers-houston-texans-top-list

[Atomic Orange]

All i can say at this point is those 2 2015 OT's better start playing ball.

And Paul Dawson was a bummer.

Whats Kroft's place on this team?

"But Alford is SO FAST. Kick and punt return monster until he works his way into the slot!"

Obviously 2 very big names from 16 we don't know anything about.

Year 2 for the promising Boyd and Core is exciting.

VIGIL. Enough said.

[The Caped Crusader]

I wasn't a fan of the past two year's drafts...I liked this year's draft.

[grampahol]

If every single draft pick isn't rookie of the year I won't build a full size replica of Paul Brown Stadium in my backyard. And I won't chip in to build a 70 foot tall solid gold statue of Marvin on the 50 yardline. I'm tired of low standards. 

[motoarch]

(05-01-2017, 12:25 AM)GodFather Wrote: Thats your opinion this team drafts very well and is my point of this thread. Your using your emotions, because this team doesn't draft the best nor the worst in the NFL, they lie somewhere in between.



Here are some views that are quite the contrary to your "very good" comment.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/nfl-draft-performance-grades-best-drafting-teams-picks-classes-2012-2016

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-teams-picks-draft-records-ranked-2012-present-030117

http://nypost.com/2017/04/22/studying-5-years-of-nfl-drafts-to-find-best-worst-teams-at-picking/

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/id/15414561/ranking-best-worst-drafting-teams-round-1-carolina-panthers-houston-texans-top-list

Only clicked on the last link which called Andre smith a 'miss' so basically that discredits the inter post.

[BonnieBengal]

(04-30-2017, 10:38 PM)GodFather Wrote: So far it seems like everyone thought we overwhelmingly hit a homer with this years draft giving the Bengals an A overall by the board poll. I absolutely remember though this being the case for the past few years and everyone getting so excited by the draft choices and thinking the Bengals were going far from such draft choices. (to be fair critic grades too)

But were they so great? Here is the past two years to reflect on the Bengal choices. Do you still give them that overwhelming "A" that was perceived in 2015/2016? (Im not talking individual posters but as a whole instead as it should be)

Why am I bringing this up? Because this is usually the reaction every year with very different outcomes as the season began on expectations.

Do I think we had a "great A grade" draft this year? No way, but I also don't think we had a bad one either. There are so many factors involved in the success of these players that its hard to see how they will perform this year, one being coaching and I don't even want to go there because it would warrant its own thread and has already been talked to death.



2015 Draft

1 Cedric Ogbuehi OT
2 Jake Fisher OT
3 Tyler Kroft TE
3 Paul Dawson LB
4 Josh Shaw DB
4 Marcus Hardison DL
5 C.J. Uzomah TE
6 Derron Smith S
7 Mario Alford WR

2016 Draft

1 William Jackson III CB
2 Tyler Boyd WR
3 Nick "Rattail" Vigil LB
4 Andrew Billings DT
5 Christian Westerman OG
6 Cody Core WR
7 Clayton Fejedelem S

Because of injuries we haven't been able to see what WJIII can do yet.  Same for Billings.  And I think Westerman as well.  Now the 2015 draft we were all complaining about drafting 2 OTs with picks 1 and 2.  So far, Ogbuehi is not good and Fisher is ok.  But this year will tell the truth about that draft.  LB Nick Vigil (2016) may have a breakout year this year when he gets more playing time.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-30-2017, 10:38 PM)GodFather Wrote: So far it seems like everyone thought we overwhelmingly hit a homer with this years draft giving the Bengals an A overall by the board poll. I absolutely remember though this being the case for the past few years and everyone getting so excited by the draft choices and thinking the Bengals were going far from such draft choices. (to be fair critic grades too)

But were they so great? Here is the past two years to reflect on the Bengal choices. Do you still give them that overwhelming "A" that was perceived in 2015/2016? (Im not talking individual posters but as a whole instead as it should be)

Why am I bringing this up? Because this is usually the reaction every year with very different outcomes as the season began on expectations.

Do I think we had a "great A grade" draft this year? No way, but I also don't think we had a bad one either. There are so many factors involved in the success of these players that its hard to see how they will perform this year, one being coaching and I don't even want to go there because it would warrant its own thread and has already been talked to death.



2015 Draft

1 Cedric Ogbuehi OT
2 Jake Fisher OT
3 Tyler Kroft TE
3 Paul Dawson LB
4 Josh Shaw DB
4 Marcus Hardison DL
5 C.J. Uzomah TE
6 Derron Smith S
7 Mario Alford WR

2016 Draft

1 William Jackson III CB
2 Tyler Boyd WR
3 Nick "Rattail" Vigil LB
4 Andrew Billings DT
5 Christian Westerman OG
6 Cody Core WR
7 Clayton Fejedelem S

I think I was pretty disappointed with the 2015 draft because of the lack of addressing the DE position.  Although he had vertical speed, I was not so sure about the Alford pick and was hoping for an earlier selection of a WR.  I also felt like they ignored the LB position and Burfict needed a faster option to pair with him in nickel packages.

2016 came and I was thrilled with the picks of WJIII, Billings, Core, and Fej.  Westerman made sense, but I figured he was more of a depth player and potential competition for Bodine.  Then, before the season began, injuries took WJIII, Billings, and Hardison (again).  I can't knock a draft due to injuries,  but I look at this upcoming season with such enthusiasm for a couple reasons. The talent haul from the 2017 draft combined with the return of WJIII, Billings, and Hardison gives the team a significant infusion of young, fast talent.  Special teams will be better.  There will be more competition at a number of position groups.  

If our players can stay healthy, we absolutely get an A for this draft.  Some was luck (Brandon Wilson at the end of the 6th, Carl Lawson at our pick in the 4th), some was smarts (taking Ross, Willis. Malone, Glasgow), and some disappointed me (Mixon, but I can't argue against the talent), but they have a nice group of young, fast, talented players that can improve our team in a number of position groups.

[CageTheBengal]

So fans shouldn't be excited about their draft haul? Got it.

Boy being a fan sure is a blast.

[Luvnit2]

(04-30-2017, 10:38 PM)GodFather Wrote: So far it seems like everyone thought we overwhelmingly hit a homer with this years draft giving the Bengals an A overall by the board poll. I absolutely remember though this being the case for the past few years and everyone getting so excited by the draft choices and thinking the Bengals were going far from such draft choices. (to be fair critic grades too)

But were they so great? Here is the past two years to reflect on the Bengal choices. Do you still give them that overwhelming "A" that was perceived in 2015/2016? (Im not talking individual posters but as a whole instead as it should be)

Why am I bringing this up? Because this is usually the reaction every year with very different outcomes as the season began on expectations.

Do I think we had a "great A grade" draft this year? No way, but I also don't think we had a bad one either. There are so many factors involved in the success of these players that its hard to see how they will perform this year, one being coaching and I don't even want to go there because it would warrant its own thread and has already been talked to death.



2015 Draft

1 Cedric Ogbuehi OT
2 Jake Fisher OT
3 Tyler Kroft TE
3 Paul Dawson LB
4 Josh Shaw DB
4 Marcus Hardison DL
5 C.J. Uzomah TE
6 Derron Smith S
7 Mario Alford WR

2016 Draft

1 William Jackson III CB
2 Tyler Boyd WR
3 Nick "Rattail" Vigil LB
4 Andrew Billings DT
5 Christian Westerman OG
6 Cody Core WR
7 Clayton Fejedelem S

I understand, we all get overly excited. But, you just showed 2 recent drafts and we still have 15 of 16 guys on the roster only a 7th round pick gone. 4 guys suffered major injuries including our last 2 number one picks. So the jury has not even started deliberating yet on these 2 drafts.

I will go on a limb and say if our #1 and #2 pick stay healthy in 2017, they will immediately confirm this draft is an "A" and that if not one other guy contributes which I don't thin k happens either.

[Au165]

I am pretty sure a lot of people hated the 2015 draft. Looking back it may have been full of guys who are contributors on this team though.

[bengals67]

I fully respect everyone's opinion and I have been mad as hell since they failed to fire Marvin after the Steelers playoff game and for other reasons such as losing Whit.

However, on paper, this draft looks really good . I really do not know how anyone could disagree.

D should be much improved and Ross and Mixon are serious weapons on offense, assuming Marvin plays them.

It is up to Alexander to get the OTs playing at even an average level for NFL OTs and doing something about Bodine who continues to be a serious weakness.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(04-30-2017, 10:38 PM)GodFather Wrote: So far it seems like everyone thought we overwhelmingly hit a homer with this years draft giving the Bengals an A overall by the board poll. I absolutely remember though this being the case for the past few years and everyone getting so excited by the draft choices and thinking the Bengals were going far from such draft choices. (to be fair critic grades too)

But were they so great? Here is the past two years to reflect on the Bengal choices. Do you still give them that overwhelming "A" that was perceived in 2015/2016? (Im not talking individual posters but as a whole instead as it should be)

Why am I bringing this up? Because this is usually the reaction every year with very different outcomes as the season began on expectations.

Do I think we had a "great A grade" draft this year? No way, but I also don't think we had a bad one either. There are so many factors involved in the success of these players that its hard to see how they will perform this year, one being coaching and I don't even want to go there because it would warrant its own thread and has already been talked to death.



2015 Draft

1 Cedric Ogbuehi OT
2 Jake Fisher OT
3 Tyler Kroft TE
3 Paul Dawson LB
4 Josh Shaw DB
4 Marcus Hardison DL
5 C.J. Uzomah TE
6 Derron Smith S
7 Mario Alford WR

2016 Draft

1 William Jackson III CB
2 Tyler Boyd WR
3 Nick "Rattail" Vigil LB
4 Andrew Billings DT
5 Christian Westerman OG
6 Cody Core WR
7 Clayton Fejedelem S

The irony about these last two drafts (so far) is that the later picks seem to be better than the earlier picks. The 2016 draft has a good chance at being one of their best ones if WJIII and Billings contribute. The 2015 draft doesn't look great because of Ogbuehi but we will see this year how he does. If he struggles, he will be replaced next year. Fisher seemed to improve a bit so there is some hope there. I'm a Rutgers fan and thought Kroft was drafted a round to early. I think he can still contribute.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(05-01-2017, 10:38 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I fully respect everyone's opinion and I have been mad as hell since they failed to fire Marvin after the Steelers playoff game and for other reasons such as losing Whit.

However, on paper, this draft looks really good . I really do not know how anyone could disagree.

D should be much improved and Ross and Mixon are serious weapons on offense, assuming Marvin plays them.

It is up to Alexander to get the OTs playing at even an average level for NFL OTs and doing something about Bodine who continues to be a serious weakness.

I agree. I think this draft can be really special. You know that there will be one player who disappoints but there will also be one player who exceeds expectations. The question is, what positions will these players be at? I'll admit I wanted Rueben Foster in the first and Cook in the 2nd, but I don't think Mixon is big difference than Cook and I do like John Ross.