Bernie takes 41% in WI Dem Straw Poll

[Belsnickel]

(06-08-2015, 07:56 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yea if you believe we need a heavy handed federal government then it's fine.   Problem is that governors think they need to run the fed gov like they ran a state.  

President should be funneling decisions down to the governors.   Not making them for them.

No, the POTUS should not funnel. The jobs are the same in that they head the branch of government that executes the laws of their level of government. It is up to the legislature to make the laws that the executive is to execute. It's the same on the state level as it is on the federal.

Now, if you'd like to discuss the overstepping of the executive and legislative branches between each other in an effort to continually expand the federal government, then that's fine. But the actual role of the federal executive is the same as the state level, just on a larger scale.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2015, 08:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, the POTUS should not funnel. The jobs are the same in that they head the branch of government that executes the laws of their level of government. It is up to the legislature to make the laws that the executive is to execute. It's the same on the state level as it is on the federal.

Now, if you'd like to discuss the overstepping of the executive and legislative branches between each other in an effort to continually expand the federal government, then that's fine. But the actual role of the federal executive is the same as the state level, just on a larger scale.

Overstepping is the issue. Yes the jobs by definition are the same. But a governor overstepping is not as detrimental as a president.

[BmorePat87]

(06-08-2015, 07:56 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yea if you believe we need a heavy handed federal government then it's fine.   Problem is that governors think they need to run the fed gov like they ran a state.  

President should be funneling decisions down to the governors.   Not making them for them.

Do you know what the President does? He's not the boss of the governor nor does he over see them.

As Matt said, he heads the executive branch and all of their agencies/departments. It's his job to make sure the law of the land is being executed properly. Likewise, it's the job of the governors of the states to make sure their laws are being executed. Some states add some extra duties to their executive that the President does not have, but the basic job description is the same.

Your argument is over certain departments under the executive branch having too much power. Remove those departments/agencies or those powers and his job remains the same.

[Benton]

(06-08-2015, 08:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Overstepping is the issue.   Yes the jobs by definition are the same.   But a governor overstepping is not as detrimental as a president.

... which is irrelevant to whether or not there's a comparison between the responsibilities of a governor and the president.

If anything, that reinforces the issue as a track record of overstepping as governor would be more indicative of his willingness to abuse authority.

[JustWinBaby]

Each POTUS is overstepping more and more. Blame the polarized media always providing plenty of cover for half the country. Blame the electorate for only caring when it's the other side doing it.

[Belsnickel]

(06-08-2015, 11:32 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Each POTUS is overstepping more and more.  Blame the polarized media always providing plenty of cover for half the country.  Blame the electorate for only caring when it's the other side doing it.

Oh, I do. It goes back even further, though. I'm a big Jefferson/Madison fan, but I still hold blame to them for expansion of the government. Our Constitution does not provide for a standing army, yet we have one. We have those founding fathers to thank for that.

[GodHatesBengals]

(06-08-2015, 06:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: President should be extremely hands off...

Ahem...

And you think Rand ***** Paul, whose platform is to completely transform pretty much everything about the government, is going to be hands off? :snark:

[StLucieBengal]

(06-09-2015, 01:09 PM)GodHatesBengals Wrote: Ahem...

And you think Rand ***** Paul, whose platform is to completely transform pretty much everything about the government, is going to be hands off? :snark:

You mean cutting spending and unnecessary government?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2015, 09:25 PM)Benton Wrote: ... which is irrelevant to whether or not there's a comparison between the responsibilities of a governor and the president.

If anything, that reinforces the issue as a track record of overstepping as governor would be more indicative of his willingness to abuse authority.

Exactly why governors are not the best choices for president. Governors over step . That's what they do because they are connected closely with the people. Yeah they do similar things, but the same reason mayors aren't good presidents either .... The farther you get away from the people... The more hands off you should be....

[StLucieBengal]

(06-08-2015, 09:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Do you know what the President does? He's not the boss of the governor nor does he over see them.

As Matt said, he heads the executive branch and all of their agencies/departments. It's his job to make sure the law of the land is being executed properly. Likewise, it's the job of the governors of the states to make sure their laws are being executed. Some states add some extra duties to their executive that the President does not have, but the basic job description is the same.

Your argument is over certain departments under the executive branch having too much power. Remove those departments/agencies or those powers and his job remains the same.

Yet no one ever removes them.... Basic job description is not in question. It's the fact that being a gov.ernor Lends itself to over stepping .... Which makes it much more likely for a governor to do what he has always done.... Over step.

[Benton]

(06-09-2015, 11:53 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Exactly why governors are not the best choices for president.  Governors over step .  That's what they do because they are connected closely with the people.      Yeah they do similar things, but the same reason mayors aren't good presidents either .... The farther you get away from the people... The more hands off you should be....

I'll temper this statement a bit, as I think you're from Florida, where the last couple Governors have definitely overstepped. That's a gross generalization about every state, and an incorrect one. Don't judge all governors by the few Republicans who think it's ok to toss aside state constitutions in search of heavier coffers. 

[fredtoast]

(06-08-2015, 01:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  

White guilt and fear of being called a racist is what got obama elected.   And the media not challenging him.... If you think anything else played a factor your dreaming.

You are delusional.

Fear of being called a racists had zero effect because voting is secret.

The media strongly challenged Obama on many issues. Especially the number one news network in the country.

Plus Romney killed himself by offending people in touch with reality enough to know that there is a huge class of people that are working but still poor. And there was also the comical level of hypocrisy over demonizing the ACA when it was based on the same principles of the insurance plan he implemented in Massachusetts.

[fredtoast]

(06-09-2015, 11:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  It's the fact that being a governor Lends itself to over stepping .... 

Actually this is not a fact at all.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-10-2015, 01:37 AM)Benton Wrote: I'll temper this statement a bit, as I think you're from Florida, where the last couple Governors have definitely overstepped. That's a gross generalization about every state, and an incorrect one. Don't judge all governors by the few Republicans who think it's ok to toss aside state constitutions in search of heavier coffers. 

Not just republicans. It's rampant in both parties. Government is always growing and its Always making more and more people dependents.

As far as Florida .... Rick Scott has done ok considering.

I know there are some good governors out there who don't over step..... But I have a hard time going back and finding the ones who were president that didn't ..... Not over stepping seems to be more the exception rather than the rule unfortunately.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-10-2015, 01:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You are delusional.

Fear of being called a racists had zero effect because voting is secret.

The media strongly challenged Obama on many issues.  Especially the number one news network in the country.

Plus Romney killed himself by offending people in touch with reality enough to know that there is a huge class of people that are working but still poor.  And there was also the comical level of hypocrisy over demonizing the ACA when it was based on the same principles of the insurance plan he implemented in Massachusetts.

Media challenged Obama? Maybe Sean Hannity and other conservative opinion makers.... But no one in the main stream media.... Where was all the coverage on his terrorist ties.... Shady land deals ....

Romney lost because he lost white voters. He needed 4% White voters to vote for him. That's the difference. But Romeny was a progressive anyway .... So he would be equally worthless as obama.

Romeny offended people.... yeah he offended me when he called himself conservative.... Yet chanpioned progressive policies.

Same for McCain .... Worthless.

[fredtoast]

(06-10-2015, 03:28 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Media challenged Obama?  Maybe Sean Hannity and other conservative opinion makers....  But no one in the main stream media....  Where was all the coverage on his terrorist ties....  Shady land deals ....  

It was not just FOX.  The entire mainstream media was all over him for his connection with Rev Wright, Tony Rezko, and Bill Ayers.  And what about when he made the comment about conservatives "clinging to their religion and guns".

You really need to stop blindly believing everything Glen Beck tells you.  The claim that the mainstream media never challenged Obama is just a flat out lie.  Only the people brainwashed by the right wing echo chamber believe this is true.

[fredtoast]

(06-10-2015, 03:28 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Romney lost because he lost white voters.   He needed 4% White voters to vote for him.  That's the difference.  

88% of people who voted for Romney were white.

The argument could be made that Romney benefited from racism.

[BmorePat87]

(06-09-2015, 11:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yet no one ever removes them....  Basic job description is not in question.    It's the fact that being a gov.ernor Lends itself to over stepping ....   Which makes it much more likely for a governor to do what he has always done.... Over step.

Again, your issue is with the role of these agencies. The President is not overstepping by overseeing these agencies.

Also, governors do not inherently overstep. Maybe by your own personal view, but not by the powers given to them in their individual states.