Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health care costs

[fredtoast]

(12-20-2016, 12:24 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I had shoulder surgery last year.  I asked, "What are my total out of pocket expenses?"  I was told $1054.  Insurance would cover the rest.  I received one bill in excess of $3800.  That doesn't even include the bill for the anesthegiologist which was close to $1000.  When I called I was told I called the wrong place.  I had called the clinic and need to call the surgery center.  The "clinic" and the "surgery" center are under the same roof, same building, same doctors.  The clinic is in the front, surgery center in the back.  But, they each have separate billing departments and the clinic couldn't help me with surgery center billing questions and vice versa.  When I contacted the surgery center's billing department, I was told I was given an "estimate" and the total cost isn't always the same as the estimate.

To me, that's like asking, "How much to buy this truck?"

"Oh, $30,000."

Then getting a bill in the mail for $90,000.

And of course I was paying my monthly premiums and co-pays.

This is one big reason why it blows my mind when politicians claim that if people were allowed to "shop around" for health care competition would make prices go down.

The other problem is that you do not even know what treatment you are "shopping for" until a doctor examines you and tells you what the problem is.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-22-2016, 02:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is one big reason why it blows my mind when politicians claim that if people were allowed to "shop around" for health care competition would make prices go down.

The other problem is that you do not even know what treatment you are "shopping for" until a doctor examines you and tells you what the problem is.

You can never get a straight answer on a firm price. Several years ago my daughter had surgery and they billed us twice. Thankfully my wife caught it. 

[fredtoast]

(12-22-2016, 02:50 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You can never get a straight answer on a firm price. Several years ago my daughter had surgery and they billed us twice. Thankfully my wife caught it. 

I could not even get a quote on what an office call would cost because it all depends on what the doctor does during the office call.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-22-2016, 02:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I could not even get a quote on what an office call would cost because it all depends on what the doctor does during the office call.

During the past 10 years I had one migraine with symptoms of a stroke I had never had with any previous migraines so I needed a CT scan. There was something on the CT scan which was probably nothing to worry about, but they needed a MRI to make sure. 

I received three separate bills for both the CT and MRI. A bill from the facility with CT and MRI machines. A bill for each scan. A bill each for the radiologist to read each scan. By the third bill I was pissed. I called and asked how many bills am I going to receive for the same damn thing?  No one could tell me. 

[Benton]

(12-22-2016, 02:50 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You can never get a straight answer on a firm price. Several years ago my daughter had surgery and they billed us twice. Thankfully my wife caught it. 

it got ridiculous with my grandfather his last few years. His doctor would order a test, we'd get 2-3 bills. Before it got turned into insurance. The hospital's answer was always "just pay it and we'll sort it out later."

[Dill]

I have followed this thread with interest. I have had health care in the US, Germany (1983-93), Qatar (2006-11), and through the US military.

As a resident of Qatar, I had free medical care from the state--no insurance needed at all. I was so unused to this it took me two years to figure out I could just go to a hospital for free.

Germany had doctors, hospitals and nurses the equal of the US, but health care costs there per capita are half those of the US.

What I so miss about that system was its simplicity. You never saw a bill. Your family doctor would give you a "Schein" to take to a specialist if you needed one, or to the hospital.  My son was born in Germany. I had my gall bladder removed. My daughter had two years of chemo. 

I take it back. We were charged 5 marks a night for every night my daughter was in the hospital. That was about $2.50. We were covered for everything, including eye care and dental, up to DM 1,500,000.

Back in the US, we paid twice as much for half the coverage. We sent Blue cross our bills and they decided whether and how much to pay. My daughter could not be covered for a year because of her pre-existing condition. That was back in the '90s, when the Clinton's health care reform failed. Every conservative I knew had a friend from Canada who came to the US because their system was supposedly so bad. The US has the best system in the world I often heard. No "socialism" for us!!

Why is it not possible to have such a competent system in the US?

[GMDino]

(12-23-2016, 03:01 AM)Dill Wrote: I have followed this thread with interest. I have had health care in the US, Germany (1983-93), Qatar (2006-11), and through the US military.

As a resident of Qatar, I had free medical care from the state--no insurance needed at all. I was so unused to this it took me two years to figure out I could just go to a hospital for free.

Germany had doctors, hospitals and nurses the equal of the US, but health care costs there per capita are half those of the US.

What I so miss about that system was its simplicity. You never saw a bill. Your family doctor would give you a "Schein" to take to a specialist if you needed one, or to the hospital.  My son was born in Germany. I had my gall bladder removed. My daughter had two years of chemo. 

I take it back. We were charged 5 marks a night for every night my daughter was in the hospital. That was about $2.50. We were covered for everything, including eye care and dental, up to DM 1,500,000.

Back in the US, we paid twice as much for half the coverage. We sent Blue cross our bills and they decided whether and how much to pay. My daughter could not be covered for a year because of her pre-existing condition. That was back in the '90s, when the Clinton's health care reform failed. Every conservative I knew had a friend from Canada who came to the US because their system was supposedly so bad. The US has the best system in the world I often heard. No "socialism" for us!!

Why is it not possible to have such a competent system in the US?

The simple answer is money, excuse me, the "free market".  People like to think/say that OUR way is better because competition will drive prices down!  Even though prices only go down until the big guy and run the little guy into the ground and then there is less competition.

Oh, and then they blame the government for "regulations" that means it really ins't a free market.

But int he end its the good old American way of "how much money can I make no matter who I hurt doing it".  Greed is an incurable disease.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-23-2016, 03:01 AM)Dill Wrote: I have followed this thread with interest. I have had health care in the US, Germany (1983-93), Qatar (2006-11), and through the US military.

As a resident of Qatar, I had free medical care from the state--no insurance needed at all. I was so unused to this it took me two years to figure out I could just go to a hospital for free.

Germany had doctors, hospitals and nurses the equal of the US, but health care costs there per capita are half those of the US.

What I so miss about that system was its simplicity. You never saw a bill. Your family doctor would give you a "Schein" to take to a specialist if you needed one, or to the hospital.  My son was born in Germany. I had my gall bladder removed. My daughter had two years of chemo. 

I take it back. We were charged 5 marks a night for every night my daughter was in the hospital. That was about $2.50. We were covered for everything, including eye care and dental, up to DM 1,500,000.

Back in the US, we paid twice as much for half the coverage. We sent Blue cross our bills and they decided whether and how much to pay. My daughter could not be covered for a year because of her pre-existing condition. That was back in the '90s, when the Clinton's health care reform failed. Every conservative I knew had a friend from Canada who came to the US because their system was supposedly so bad. The US has the best system in the world I often heard. No "socialism" for us!!

Why is it not possible to have such a competent system in the US?

Eighty percent of Americans get their health insurance via their employer who usually only offers 1-3 policies to choose from 1-2 different insurance companies. But, mention "single payer" and the rebuttal is "then I won't be able to get the best coverage money can buy!" While they can't get the best coverage money can buy now.

[Dill]

(12-23-2016, 10:06 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Eighty percent of Americans get their health insurance via their employer who usually only offers 1-3 policies to choose from 1-2 different insurance companies. But, mention "single payer" and the rebuttal is "then I won't be able to get the best coverage money can buy!" While they can't get the best coverage money can buy now.

I'm glad you mentioned "single-payer." Germany does not have a single payer system. Everyone is insured through an insurance company, not the state.

The two main differences are these:

1. There is a partial mandate--EVERYONE making under a certain yearly amount (at the moment 50,000 Euros) must have insurance.

2. For those making less than the cutoff, there are coop insurances, run by the insurers. E.g., ours was Barmer Ersatzkasse. We voted for a board of directors every few years, received budget reports in the mail, etc. These insurers are not government payers, but as I understand it, if they run over budget, the gov. makes up the difference. So there is a two-tier system, with rich folks buying private insurance or just choosing to go without, and the lower earners who must have insurance but also have the cheap, coop option. Rich folks can't just buy the coop insurance. But my wife and I went above the cut off point two years after our arrival in Germany and were still allowed to keep our cheap BEK because we were already on it.

Again I reiterate--it was so nice NEVER SEEING A BILL from doctors or hospitals. Perhaps therein lies the secret of bringing down US health care costs. If 10 million Americans spent a year in Germany and returned to the US, our health care system would be changed for good.

I might add, I have several Japanese friends who are also very critical of "the worlds greatest system."  One was studying to be a nurse in Pittsburgh. She became pregnant from her American boyfriend and went back to Japan to have the baby, because she felt the care there was not only double cheaper but of higher quality.

Perhaps Americans would find this sort of option more palatable than single-payer. It would at least widen the debate over options.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-23-2016, 12:57 PM)Dill Wrote: I'm glad you mentioned "single-payer." Germany does not have a single payer system. Everyone is insured through an insurance company, not the state.

The two main differences are these:

1. There is a partial mandate--EVERYONE making under a certain yearly amount (at the moment 50,000 Euros) must have insurance.

2. For those making less than the cutoff, there are coop insurances, run by the insurers. E.g., ours was Barmer Ersatzkasse. We voted for a board of directors every few years, received budget reports in the mail, etc. These insurers are not government payers, but as I understand it, if they run over budget, the gov. makes up the difference. So there is a two-tier system, with rich folks buying private insurance or just choosing to go without, and the lower earners who must have insurance but also have the cheap, coop option.  Rich folks can't just buy the coop insurance. But my wife and I went above the cut off point two years after our arrival in Germany and were still allowed to keep our cheap BEK because we were already on it.

Again I reiterate--it was so nice NEVER SEEING A BILL from doctors or hospitals. Perhaps therein lies the secret of bringing down US health care costs. If 10 million Americans spent a year in Germany and returned to the US, our health care system would be changed for good.

I might add, I have several Japanese friends who are also very critical of "the worlds greatest system."  One was studying to be a nurse in Pittsburgh. She became pregnant from her American boyfriend and went back to Japan to have the baby, because she felt the care there was not only double cheaper but of higher quality.

Perhaps Americans would find this sort of option more palatable than single-payer. It would at least widen the debate over options.

You lost me at, "I'm glad you mentioned 'single-payer.'" Sounds like "socialism."  

[Dill]

(12-23-2016, 07:47 AM)GMDino Wrote: The simple answer is money, excuse me, the "free market".  People like to think/say that OUR way is better because competition will drive prices down!  Even though prices only go down until the big guy and run the little guy into the ground and then there is less competition.

Oh, and then they blame the government for "regulations" that means it really ins't a free market.

But int he end its the good old American way of "how much money can I make no matter who I hurt doing it".  Greed is an incurable disease.

Before Obamacare, free market competition meant profiling patients either to reject coverage or to charge them higher premiums for pre-existing conditions--and then fighting payment whenever and as long as possible. Even if you eventually have to pay, a number of people will give up.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-23-2016, 07:02 PM)Dill Wrote: Before Obamacare, free market competition meant profiling patients either to reject coverage or to charge them higher premiums for pre-existing conditions--and then fighting payment whenever and as long as possible. Even if you eventually have to pay, a number of people will give up.

They still profile patients with biometric screening. Except instead of charging those individual more, they charge everyone more, make everyone jump through hoops, and offer "discounts" to those qualify. Very shrewd. 

They still fight or delay payment. Especially on the reimbursement side. That's why we have an additional level of bureaucracy due to the provider's billing department trying to get paid by the insurance company for the work they do and the insurance company's billing department trying to nickel and dime them to death. Plus billing fraud is a much bigger problem than I could have imagined.