Boots on the Ground

[*bfine32*]

http://news.yahoo.com/activists-islamic-state-edge-syrias-historic-palmyra-113134376.html

Quote:In a rare ground attack deep into Syria, U.S. Army commandos killed a man described as the Islamic State's head of oil operations, captured his wife and rescued a woman whom American officials said was enslaved.

How can anybody be opposed to this?

[SunsetBengal]

I have no complaints with that operation. Personally, I hope they unleash everything it takes to eradicate those terrorists.

[Steeler Eater]

(05-16-2015, 07:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I have no complaints with that operation.  Personally, I hope they unleash everything it takes to eradicate those terrorists.

Quick tactical strikes would be the best way to go in terms of this because we do not need another 10 year war to drain us of trillions of dollars and thousands of lives. The Middle East is always going to be chaos, but some more order is definitely in need after we caused 98% of this mess.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-16-2015, 07:38 PM)Steeler Eater Wrote: Quick tactical strikes would be the best way to go in terms of this because we do not need another 10 year war to drain us of trillions of dollars and thousands of lives. The Middle East is always going to be chaos, but some more order is definitely in need after we caused 98% of this mess.

I agree whole heartedly about quick strike effectiveness, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this mess being "our fault". Muslim extremists declared war on anyone that was not them, a long, long time ago. This is just the latest round.

[BmorePat87]

(05-16-2015, 07:38 PM)Steeler Eater Wrote: Quick tactical strikes would be the best way to go in terms of this because we do not need another 10 year war to drain us of trillions of dollars and thousands of lives. The Middle East is always going to be chaos, but some more order is definitely in need after we caused 98% of this mess.

Well said. Operations like this are effective. wars though...

(05-16-2015, 07:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree whole heartedly about quick strike effectiveness, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this mess being "our fault".  Muslim extremists declared war on anyone that was not them, a long, long time ago.  This is just the latest round.

An invading force that occupies your country and instability bring these kinds of groups.

[StLucieBengal]

Not against killing these guys but the fact we are even there is troubling enough.

if we do step in to protect our interests then We leave after we get the job done.... Spreading democracy or whatever they are calling it needs to stop.

[*bfine32*]

(05-16-2015, 07:38 PM)Steeler Eater Wrote: Quick tactical strikes would be the best way to go in terms of this because we do not need another 10 year war to drain us of trillions of dollars and thousands of lives. The Middle East is always going to be chaos, but some more order is definitely in need after we caused 98% of this mess.

We didn't cause anything; we simply brought it to the light of day. I have witnessed the aftermath of a 9-year old girl mutilated simply because she had the nerve to try to go to school. I have had to witness dog fights to the death as sport. Not trained Pit Bulls, but just whatever mongrel Haji could get his hands on. I have had to resist the strong urge to stomp the ass of all in attendance. I have had to dodge IEDs emplaced by people that we had just brought medical aid to.

I could share hundreds of other stories.  

It was a simpler life before we exposed the atrocities that go on over there on a daily basis; but there is no way we caused it.

[*bfine32*]

(05-16-2015, 08:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: An invading force that occupies your country and instability bring these kinds of groups.

These "kind of groups" were there long before we showed up. We just brought the cameras.

[Belsnickel]

(05-16-2015, 09:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These "kind of groups" were there long before we showed up. We just brought the cameras.

I guess my problem with using this line of reasoning as justifying our action in the Middle East is how often we have not intervened in other crimes against humanity, attempted genocides even. So how can we claim this is somehow a moral crusade when we pick and choose our fights based upon was is (or is perceived to be) most advantageous for us?

I think the problem many people have is that had we not started meddling over there, we wouldn't have them coming over here to kill people. And that is to what I think most people are referring when they talk about us starting things.

[*bfine32*]

(05-16-2015, 10:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think the problem many people have is that had we not started meddling over there, we wouldn't have them coming over here to kill people. And that is to what I think most people are referring when they talk about us starting things.

I would hope you and others realize the USS Cole Bombing, 2 attacks on the World Trade Center, and numerous other acts happened prior to us going over there "meddling".

But, yeah...."our bad"

[Belsnickel]

(05-16-2015, 10:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would hope you and others realize the USS Cole Bombing, 2 attacks on the World Trade Center, and numerous other acts happened prior to us going over there "meddling".

But, yeah...."our bad"

So we didn't involve ourselves in the affairs over there before any of that happened? Not at all, eh? Never did anything that may have caused people in that region to believe we were meddling in their affairs?

There is no justification for the actions that were taken, but we have been involved over there long before those three events you mention specifically.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-16-2015, 11:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So we didn't involve ourselves in the affairs over there before any of that happened? Not at all, eh? Never did anything that may have caused people in that region to believe we were meddling in their affairs?

There is no justification for the actions that were taken, but we have been involved over there long before those three events you mention specifically.

Sykes-Picot is really a big part of the problem. Because of that Iraq exists. And that was British and the French

[HarleyDog]

Love the mission. We need to do more of this.

[*bfine32*]

(05-16-2015, 11:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So we didn't involve ourselves in the affairs over there before any of that happened? Not at all, eh? Never did anything that may have caused people in that region to believe we were meddling in their affairs?

There is no justification for the actions that were taken, but we have been involved over there long before those three events you mention specifically.

...and terrorism from the Middle East has gone on much longer than the examples I provided (do you need me to provide others?). I assume it is your recommendation we just build some sort of wall and keep to ourselves and don't go "meddling".

Regardless what you and others try to assert; we did not start the atrocities that take place in the middle east nor did we cause it to branch out. Your stance of what happens over there stays over there is not one I can share. Let them murder, rape, torture whoever they want as long as they keep to themselves and I remain ignorant of it. Unfortunately I do not have that luxury. I have seen the curtain pulled back.

[Benton]

Almost every atrocity you can name on some distant soil occurs here with some frequency. Why are we spending resources to reduce the occurrences in other places instead of trying to reduce them here? We have no problem doling out trillions to liberate other people, but we scoff at spending millions on programs to lift up our own.

[Belsnickel]

(05-16-2015, 11:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and terrorism from the Middle East has gone on much longer than the examples I provided (do you need me to provide others?). I assume it is your recommendation we just build some sort of wall and keep to ourselves and don't go "meddling".

Regardless what you and others try to assert; we did not start the atrocities that take place in the middle east nor did we cause it to branch out. Your stance of what happens over there stays over there is not one I can share. Let them murder, rape, torture whoever they want as long as they keep to themselves and I remain ignorant of it. Unfortunately I do not have that luxury. I have seen the curtain pulled back.

Terrorism in the ME has gone on for millennia. It's described in the Bible even. I am merely saying the animosity towards us, and the rest of the western world, is not just because they decided to hate us one day. The colonial powers and then later our meddling from the formation of Israel onward, has caused the issue of terrorism going beyond their region.

For the record, I am not saying we should just ignore atrocities. I just find the way we pick and choose which atrocities to care about to be hypocritical, how we only care if it is to our advantage to care. Oftentimes spending money to care about these things that could otherwise be spent helping our own citizenry.

[*bfine32*]

(05-16-2015, 11:35 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: For the record, I am not saying we should just ignore atrocities. I just find the way we pick and choose which atrocities to care about to be hypocritical, how we only care if it is to our advantage to care.

I've been to Afghanistan and there is absolutely nothing there that would be advantageous to us. Unless we have a shortage of dirt and rocks.

[Benton]

(05-16-2015, 11:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've been to Afghanistan and there is absolutely nothing there that would be advantageous to us. Unless we have a shortage of dirt and rocks.

Does that include the $1-2$2 trillion in natural resources mined from there by us companies in the last decade-ish?

[*bfine32*]

(05-16-2015, 11:54 PM)Benton Wrote: Does that include the $1-2$2 trillion in natural resources mined from there by us companies in the last decade-ish?

Do you have any type of link as to where the US has mined $1-2$ Trillion dollars of natural resources from Afghanistan since we started "meddling"?

[Belsnickel]

(05-16-2015, 11:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've been to Afghanistan and there is absolutely nothing there that would be advantageous to us. Unless we have a shortage of dirt and rocks.

Afghanistan had nothing to do with the atrocities being committed there. The only reason we cared about the Taliban in this country was because of their support of AQ. Were the Taliban not supporting them we would have been working with them.