Borderline Bar & Grill Shooting

[Au165]

Another shooting, 12 dead plus the shooter. Again,nothing really will be done, we will simply offer more thoughts and prayers which have been shown to be ineffective at stopping bullets.

[GMDino]

(11-08-2018, 10:01 AM)Au165 Wrote: Another shooting, 12 dead plus the shooter. Again,nothing really will be done, we will simply offer more thoughts and prayers which have been shown to be ineffective at stopping bullets.

Literally shot his way in...even killed the security guard.

All these kids were doing was having a night out...I don't even know what to say anymore.

[CKwi88]

Good thing we had our thoughts and prayers. Can't imagine how many would have bought the farm without those.

But let's just save the trouble of having a thread on this and just sum up the boilerplate responses:

"Thoughts and prayers"
"Nothing you can stop this sort of thing"
"It's sad people would use this to divide people"
"What a messed up person"
"California has such strong gun laws, and it still happens"

I feel like I'm missing some, but whatever. 

[*Nately120*]

If only everyone had guns, then guns would guns guns guns guns. You know what I guns?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2018, 10:01 AM)Au165 Wrote: Another shooting, 12 dead plus the shooter. Again,nothing really will be done, we will simply offer more thoughts and prayers which have been shown to be ineffective at stopping bullets.

CA has the strictest gun control laws in the nation.  What exactly are you saying isn't being done?

[Au165]

(11-08-2018, 12:12 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: CA has the strictest gun control laws in the nation.  What exactly are you saying isn't being done?

If I tell you that you have the fastest car on the street, and it's a ford Pinto, does that mean that there are no cars faster available or just that the pool we are comparing them too is not a great group to work from? 

[GMDino]

(11-08-2018, 10:23 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Good thing we had our thoughts and prayers. Can't imagine how many would have bought the farm without those.

But let's just save the trouble of having a thread on this and just sum up the boilerplate responses:

"Thoughts and prayers"
"Nothing you can stop this sort of thing"
"It's sad people would use this to divide people"
"What a messed up person"
"California has such strong gun laws, and it still happens"

I feel like I'm missing some, but whatever. 

(11-08-2018, 12:12 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: CA has the strictest gun control laws in the nation.  What exactly are you saying isn't being done?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2018, 12:14 PM)Au165 Wrote: If I tell you that you have the fastest car on the street, and it's a ford Pinto, does that mean that there are no cars faster available or just that the pool we are comparing them too is not a great group to work from? 

So, what would you propose to stop this?

(11-08-2018, 12:21 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Sorry that facts had to be introduced, I know that bothers you.

[Au165]

(11-08-2018, 12:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So, what would you propose to stop this?


Sorry that facts had to be introduced, I know that bothers you.

Tough to stop because of the whole 2nd amendment thing. I'd start by limiting handguns to revolvers and rifles to non-cartridged bolt action rifles or black powder rifles. If you can't stop it, minimize damage as much as possible by slowing down reloading times and firing rates. This still allows people to posses firearms capable of defending their homes and for hunting, but maybe it saves a life or two when they get turned on large groups of people. 

[*Nately120*]

(11-08-2018, 12:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: So, what would you propose to stop this?


Sorry that facts had to be introduced, I know that bothers you.

The best thing we can do is turn those killed by random-ish shootings into fallen patriots.  Build a monument, add names to it.  Died in the name of freedom...died heroes.  It's relatively cheap PR and it skirts the admission that there is nothing that can be done to prevent it.  You can even give them flags like we do dead veterans.  I'm serious on this one.  Salute them, respect them, revere them.  

Can't prevent, so move on to accepting the reality that it will happen and continue to happen...so what do we do to put a more positive spin on dying via shooting? People are sad, but proud when their loved ones die in combat protecting our freedom, so now it's time to extend dying for our freedoms to anyone who bravely dies in the name of the 2nd, I guess.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2018, 12:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: Tough to stop because of the whole 2nd amendment thing. I'd start by limiting handguns to revolvers and rifles to non-cartridged bolt action rifles or black powder rifles.

Would be instantly struck down as unconstitutional (which it is), based on Heller alone.

Quote:If you can't stop it, minimize damage as much as possible by slowing down reloading times and firing rates. This still allows people to posses firearms capable of defending their homes and for hunting, but maybe it saves a life or two when they get turned on large groups of people. 

See, you could stop most crime tomorrow by eliminating the 4th amendment restrictions on law enforcement.  As you say, the whole 2nd amendment "thing", rather puts a damper on the types of European or Australian type gun control that you're proposing.  I'd propose simply living your life as before as you're more likely to get struck by lightning than killed in this type of event.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-08-2018, 12:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The best thing we can do is turn those killed by random-ish shootings into fallen patriots.  Build a monument, add names to it.  Died in the name of freedom...died heroes.  It's relatively cheap PR and it skirts the admission that there is nothing that can be done to prevent it.  You can even give them flags like we do dead veterans.  I'm serious on this one.  Salute them, respect them, revere them.

Even easier, don't release the names of the cowards who engage in these shootings.  Don't give them the publicity they crave. 

Quote:Can't prevent, so move on to accepting the reality that it will happen and continue to happen...so what do we do to put a more positive spin on dying via shooting?  People are sad, but proud when their loved ones die in combat protecting our freedom, so now it's time to extend dying for our freedoms to anyone who bravely dies in the name of the 2nd, I guess.

Would you include the criminals who are the victims of most firearm related homicides?  I'm not being flippant, I'm just pointing out that the majority of firearms related deaths involve criminals killing other criminals.  As stated before, average law abiding citizen will go their entire lives without seeing a gun drawn, much less used, in anger.

[Au165]

(11-08-2018, 12:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Would be instantly struck down as unconstitutional (which it is), based on Heller alone.


See, you could stop most crime tomorrow by eliminating the 4th amendment restrictions on law enforcement.  As you say, the whole 2nd amendment "thing", rather puts a damper on the types of European or Australian type gun control that you're proposing.  I'd propose simply living your life as before as you're more likely to get struck by lightning than killed in this type of event.  

It's illegal to manufacture new fully automatic weapons for civilian use in the U.S., and this has been allowed to stand. What you find is there is a general societal acceptance of what is believed to be reasonably useful specs for a fire arm and what isn't. It was deemed there was no legitimate use for a civilian to need a fully automatic firearm. The same could be said for magazined weapons as well, it all comes to the societal feelings on such things at the time. The great things about society is they evolve to learn that sometimes stuff they used to do wasn't such a great idea.

By the way Heller stopped a hand gun ban. A revolver would still be a handgun and not fall under this ruling. It's restricting capacity and fire rate which other laws have successfully done.

You asked what I'd do this is what I'd do. You don't have to like it, but this is what I'd do.

[*Nately120*]

(11-08-2018, 01:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Even easier, don't release the names of the cowards who engage in these shootings.  Don't give them the publicity they crave. 


Would you include the criminals who are the victims of most firearm related homicides?  I'm not being flippant, I'm just pointing out that the majority of firearms related deaths involve criminals killing other criminals.  As stated before, average law abiding citizen will go their entire lives without seeing a gun drawn, much less used, in anger.

Ehh, I get the whole don't release the names of the shooters, but that seems like denial more than anything.  Who knows, on that one.  And I would only include people who are out and about and getting shot while engaging in normal daily activities.  If you are at the movies, or school, or work (even if you work at a planned parenthood) and you get shot by someone you don't know, then I'd say you get the hero treatment.  We are looking for marketable and respectable deaths...people who are dead because people who are prone to shooting strangers have access to firepower.

There is no need to point out that most of the time people get shot it's because Tyrone shot another guy named Tyrone.
  

[Belsnickel]

(11-08-2018, 12:12 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: CA has the strictest gun control laws in the nation.  What exactly are you saying isn't being done?

However, something we know based on data from Missouri's repeal of their permit-to-purchase laws, is that when a state with stricter firearm laws has other states nearby with more lax laws reduce the effectiveness of the firearms laws in place in that state. So while states like California, Illinois, and Maryland have stricter laws regarding gun control, the effectiveness is reduced significantly by neighboring states not having the same restrictions.

So what I am saying needs to be done is a federal analysis of potentially effective gun control measures that could be implemented nation wide in an effort to prevent firearms from being purchased in one state for their use in another state.

[GMDino]

(11-08-2018, 01:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, I get the whole don't release the names of the shooters, but that seems like denial more than anything.  Who knows, on that one.  And I would only include people who are out and about and getting shot while engaging in normal daily activities.  If you are at the movies, or school, or work (even if you work at a planned parenthood) and you get shot by someone you don't know, then I'd say you get the hero treatment.  We are looking for marketable and respectable deaths...people who are dead because people who are prone to shooting strangers have access to firepower.

There is no need to point out that most of the time people get shot it's because Tyrone shot another guy named Tyrone.
  

Does the shooter want fame if he kills himself?

Maybe, I guess.

[Millhouse]

The gunman was an ex-marine who served for a few years with 7 months in Afghanistan back in 2010-11. The gun used was a glock .45 caliber he legally purchased in CA. However it also had an extended magazine which is illegal in CA.

[Benton]

(11-08-2018, 01:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Even easier, don't release the names of the cowards who engage in these shootings.  Don't give them the publicity they crave. 

Which could violate some rights/protections depending on the state, and — at the least — ways to keep courts open and honest. 

[fredtoast]

(11-08-2018, 12:59 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'd propose simply living your life as before as you're more likely to get struck by lightning than killed in this type of event.  

Right because getting killed is all that matters. No problem with getting shot and surviving which happens over twice as often as getting killed.  And no problem with the hundreds of thousands of times each year that guns are used to threaten without being discharged.

Typical NRA spin.

[fredtoast]

What we need to do is stop obsessing over mass shootings. They account for only a very small fraction of gun violence.

Simple licensing and registration (with training requirements) will do more to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and reduce gun violence than banning any specific type of gun.  And it does not infringe on any law abiding citizens right to posses a gun.