Church Burnings

[Belsnickel]

Last night there was another traditionally black church burned. This makes 7 since the incident in Charleston. 7.

What is your take on the events going on in the South right now?

[GMDino]

(07-01-2015, 09:45 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Last night there was another traditionally black church burned. This makes 7 since the incident in Charleston. 7.

What is your take on the events going on in the South right now?

"Racism is isolated in certain pockets of America and we don't need the government or any laws telling everyone else how to run their lives and who can or cannot like!" © 2008-2015 Everyone who isn't racist.




All kidding aside its pretty clear the south can be an absolutely horrible place.  Lots of places around the country can be...but the south is just awful when it comes to black / white relations.  Its a damn shame.

[*Nately120*]

(07-01-2015, 09:45 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: What is your take on the events going on in the South right now?

I think Neil Young pretty much summed it up in 1970.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-01-2015, 09:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: "Racism is isolated in certain pockets of America and we don't need the government or any laws telling everyone else how to run their lives and who can or cannot like!" © 2008-2015 Everyone who isn't racist.




All kidding aside its pretty clear the south can be an absolutely horrible place.  Lots of places around the country can be...but the south is just awful when it comes to black / white relations.  Its a damn shame.

That amounts to terrorism as far as I'm concerned.  Treat 'em like we do terrorists when they are caught.  

[Belsnickel]

(07-01-2015, 10:17 AM)michaelsean Wrote: That amounts to terrorism as far as I'm concerned.  Treat 'em like we do terrorists when they are caught.  

I have to agree, and I am sure most sensible people will as well. What will be interesting is how wide that idea tends to spread because these terrorists won't be representative of what our government and pundits have been pushing on as as the image of a terrorist.

[SteelCitySouth]

I worry. I worry for my city at this point. Thus far Charleston has been a beacon, a light in the nation showing just how a loving caring people should react when such violent and intentionally divisive tragedy happens. Charleston didn't blow up with riots, Charleston turned inward and joined spirits to provide support for those that lost, and support for the city as a whole. Charleston didn't make an icon of the low life that caused the tragedy. After his capture he has not been shown on TV here in the low country. Only the unity of the city.

But now my friends I worry. There is only so much any group of people can take before they break and lash out. I worry that the vitriolic nature of those that would chose hate over the love of thy neighbor will push this city to the brink of it's patience. We do not know as of yet whether this fire was intentional or not. But if found to be intentional, it will be one more blow to that patience this city has so wonderfully exemplified. I wonder, however, how many blows it can withstand.

[Belsnickel]

(07-01-2015, 10:36 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I worry.  I worry for my city at this point.  Thus far Charleston has been a beacon, a light in the nation showing just how a loving caring people should react when such violent and intentionally divisive tragedy happens.  Charleston didn't blow up with riots, Charleston turned inward and joined spirits to provide support for those that lost, and support for the city as a whole.  Charleston didn't make an icon of the low life that caused the tragedy.  After his capture he has not been shown on TV here in the low country.  Only the unity of the city.

But now my friends I worry.  There is only so much any group of people can take before they break and lash out.  I worry that the vitriolic nature of those that would chose hate over the love of thy neighbor will push this city to the brink of it's patience. We do not know as of yet whether this fire was intentional or not.  But if found to be intentional, it will be one more blow to that patience this city has so wonderfully exemplified.  I wonder, however, how many blows it can withstand.

I worry for your city as well. This is quite the trial that is occurring here. I will say this, at least the FBI is involved in all 7 of these fires, and at least the FBI has distanced itself from the days of the '60s when they weren't doing much. I am just hoping that all of the frustration with law enforcement that has been going on is not going to cause the situation to become worse due to distrust of the feds.

I just hope the people of Charleston, and SC as a whole, realize that we're not just sitting back watching to see what will happen. Many of us are standing with you in a figurative sense. This hate can't continue and fighting hate with hate will only further it all. Fighting hate with love, compassion, and community is the only way to overcome this sort of thing.

[SteelCitySouth]

(07-01-2015, 10:44 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I worry for your city as well. This is quite the trial that is occurring here. I will say this, at least the FBI is involved in all 7 of these fires, and at least the FBI has distanced itself from the days of the '60s when they weren't doing much. I am just hoping that all of the frustration with law enforcement that has been going on is not going to cause the situation to become worse due to distrust of the feds.

I just hope the people of Charleston, and SC as a whole, realize that we're not just sitting back watching to see what will happen. Many of us are standing with you in a figurative sense. This hate can't continue and fighting hate with hate will only further it all. Fighting hate with love, compassion, and community is the only way to overcome this sort of thing.

At this point though, I am worried that with another event it may reduce down to a black/white thing with zero regard for frustration with law enforcement.  This build up began last year with the white officer that shot the black man at a gas station and then the white officer that shot the black man running away from him, then the idiot that shoots 10 people in the church and now a black church that it burned.  

[SteelCitySouth]

Preliminary reports are that the fire was not arson. I hope this initial report holds.

[fredtoast]

Churches have always been a prime target for theft and vandalism just because they are empty so often.

I'd like to see the numbers for how many churches burn in an average year. I wonder if this number is really that far out of the norm.

But on the other hand churches have also been a very popular target for racists hate groups. This goes back to the 60's when the churches were basically the most influential institution in black communities.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-01-2015, 09:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: All kidding aside its pretty clear the south can be an absolutely horrible place.  Lots of places around the country can be...but the south is just awful when it comes to black / white relations.  Its a damn shame.

Why are you painting the south as some horrible place? There are aholes everywhere.

I am in the south.... blacks and whites get along fine here. Please stop trying to demonize the south.

This is obviously some criminals who need to be brought to justice. And they will be, by the same people you seem to think live in an aweful place.

[GMDino]

(07-01-2015, 09:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: "Racism is isolated in certain pockets of America and we don't need the government or any laws telling everyone else how to run their lives and who can or cannot like!" © 2008-2015 Everyone who isn't racist.

(07-01-2015, 03:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Why are you painting the south as some horrible place?   There are aholes everywhere.  

I am in the south.... blacks and whites get along fine here.   Please stop trying to demonize the south.  

This is obviously some criminals who need to be brought to justice.   And they will be, by the same people you seem to think live in an aweful place.

[SteelCitySouth]

(07-01-2015, 03:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Why are you painting the south as some horrible place?   There are aholes everywhere.  

I am in the south.... blacks and whites get along fine here.   Please stop trying to demonize the south.  

This is obviously some criminals who need to be brought to justice.   And they will be, by the same people you seem to think live in an aweful place.

Not agreeing completely with GM, however you can't include Florida as part of the "South".  Heck even the rest of the south would agree Florida is not the South.  I'ts more like the Norths dumping ground for the old.

[Belsnickel]

(07-01-2015, 03:34 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Not agreeing completely with GM, however you can't include Florida as part of the "South".  Heck even the rest of the south would agree Florida is not the South.  I'ts more like the Norths dumping ground for the old.

Yeah, was going to say the same. There are places south of the Mason-Dixon that are not a part of the South (notice the capitalized S?). Florida (minus the panhandle) is one of those places. NoVA is another. The Southern culture just isn't there.

[*Nately120*]

(07-01-2015, 04:31 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, was going to say the same. There are places south of the Mason-Dixon that are not a part of the South (notice the capitalized S?). Florida (minus the panhandle) is one of those places. NoVA is another. The Southern culture just isn't there.

I lived in NW PA and the spirit of the South is alive and/or well there.  People who never set foot anyplace else sport rebel flags and speak with a southern drawl, SO the South is everywhere!  EVERYWHERE!!!!

[BmorePat87]

(07-01-2015, 09:45 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Last night there was another traditionally black church burned. This makes 7 since the incident in Charleston. 7.

What is your take on the events going on in the South right now?

From what I have read, this probably is nothing more than increased media attention because of the killings.

2 of the 7 have been ruled weather related. The other 5 are probably arson. One was after the place was broken into and stuff stolen, and they say a big reason for arson is often to cover up a theft. Another was reported as vandalism.

On average, fire fighters respond to 33 church fires a week in the US. So if we had roughly 66 in the 2 weeks since the killings, we're saying that 7 of the 66 happened to be at black churches in the South, so 11%. Doesn't seem like a statistically significant percent if total number of church fires stuck to the average.

The latest church was struck by lightning, but it actually was burned down by the KKK in 1995. After that, Clinton had a tasdk force or something investigate church fires. They found that 67% were set by white people and 33% set by black people. Not really anything to suggest a majority of black church fires are race related.

[StLucieBengal]

(07-01-2015, 03:34 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Not agreeing completely with GM, however you can't include Florida as part of the "South".  Heck even the rest of the south would agree Florida is not the South.  I'ts more like the Norths dumping ground for the old.

I live near the muck. Yeah parts of Florida are northern. But in my area we have a large amount of old Florida. The whole area around lake Okeechobee is old Florida.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-01-2015, 09:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: "Racism is isolated in certain pockets of America and we don't need the government or any laws telling everyone else how to run their lives and who can or cannot like!" © 2008-2015 Everyone who isn't racist.




All kidding aside its pretty clear the south can be an absolutely horrible place.  Lots of places around the country can be...but the south is just awful when it comes to black / white relations.  Its a damn shame.

Really?  'Cause when the Charleston shooting occurred, I saw people coming together peacefully and holding vigils.  I saw the victims being honored.  I even saw some forgiveness for the shooter, even though he's a vile, disgusting excuse for a human.  Thank God it didn't happen in the north, midwest, or LA, they'd still be rioting and looting.

That's a pretty myopic view you have there......maybe you should listen to Randy Newman's song "Rednecks", where he talks about the perceived "racial harmony" in the "great north". Yep, the harmony is just fine up there, as long as the black folk stay in their neighborhoods and ghettos, ain't that right......

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-01-2015, 10:14 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: From what I have read, this probably is nothing more than increased media attention because of the killings.

2 of the 7 have been ruled weather related. The other 5 are probably arson. One was after the place was broken into and stuff stolen, and they say a big reason for arson is often to cover up a theft. Another was reported as vandalism.

On average, fire fighters respond to 33 church fires a week in the US. So if we had roughly 66 in the 2 weeks since the killings, we're saying that 7 of the 66 happened to be at black churches in the South, so 11%. Doesn't seem like a statistically significant percent if total number of church fires stuck to the average.

The latest church was struck by lightning, but it actually was burned down by the KKK in 1995. After that, Clinton had a tasdk force or something investigate church fires. They found that 67% were set by white people and 33% set by black people. Not really anything to suggest a majority of black church fires are race related.

Thank you for some common sense Pat.....rep to you sir. How are things in Baltimore now that the shit stirring media has left your fair city?

[Bilbo Saggins]

(07-02-2015, 03:14 AM)Wyche Wrote: Really?  'Cause when the Charleston shooting occurred, I saw people coming together peacefully and holding vigils.  I saw the victims being honored.  I even saw some forgiveness for the shooter, even though he's a vile, disgusting excuse for a human.  Thank God it didn't happen in the north, midwest, or LA, they'd still be rioting and looting.

That's a pretty myopic view you have there......maybe you should listen to Randy Newman's song "Rednecks", where he talks about the perceived "racial harmony" in the "great north". Yep, the harmony is just fine up there, as long as the black folk stay in their neighborhoods and ghettos, ain't that right......

As someone who's lived in the rural north, the "mid-south", and had experiences in cities all over the place I cant help but feel that Ive experienced a palpable difference between race relations in different areas. Race relations aren't always so good in the North-I've heard of and even seen firsthand some really vile instances of racism up here-but it seems to be more repressed than in the south. A northern racist might have the same views as a southern one but is less likely to express them or do anything about it-it seemed to be "safer" or more mainstream in southern areas. For instance, there was a fellow who I used to work with around the Louisville area. He was black and seemed to genuinely get the short end of the stick at work more so than his white counterparts(I've seen this in the North as well but it was more hidden). He told me once that a group of his friends were outright barred from walking into a nightlife area by police-no reason was given. I'm about 99% that that wouldn't fly where I'm from-even in some of the really white trash type of bars. I can't think of any more examples at the moment but I couldn't help but sense that in the south black/white relations were different for the worse. I hope that I didn't offend anyone with this and think that it's a shame that all southerners have to deal with the stereotypes...but there does seem to be a difference.