Clock Boy

[fredtoast]

(11-24-2015, 12:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Fred they expelled a white kid for bringing a dangerous weapon to school.    When he ate his pop tart into the shape of a gun.  

Should they get to sue for millions?

The problem isn't anti Islamic sentiment ..... It's zero tolerance school policy.

Different issue.  The kid with the pop tart admitted that it was supposed to look like a gun.  And they didn't handcuff the kid for making a gun from a pop tart.  Stupid rule, but totally different issue.

[Benton]

(11-24-2015, 12:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think the idea of punishing a whole community for the actions of a few is a horrible way to approach these things. If it was a school district/police department policy to be racist that is one thing, but we have gone overboard with the idea that every person is an extension of an entire corporation or community. The problem is individuals can be stupid and there can be no way to stop them until after it happens sometimes. I think corporations should be treated the same thing. If it was a systematic failure across the corporation make the cost substantial, but when it's a single or small group acting stupid it should be minimal.

I think he should be compensated, but I think the individuals should be fired as punishment and he should get a 10th of what he is asking for. We have gone crazy with these awards and it really needs to stop.

A district elects board members. City residents elect councils. Corporations have board members. All are extensions of the majority, or at least that's the idea. If a community doesn't like having stupid people in charge, it's the requirement of the community to put better leadership in place.  If they fail that — because they're too stupid not to put someone not stupid in charge — then they're getting punished for their own stupidity.

But I agree that some of the settlements and rulings are overboard.

[fredtoast]

(11-24-2015, 12:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think the idea of punishing a whole community for the actions of a few is a horrible way to approach these things. If it was a school district/police department policy to be racist that is one thing, but we have gone overboard with the idea that every person is an extension of an entire corporation or community. The problem is individuals can be stupid and there can be no way to stop them until after it happens sometimes. I think corporations should be treated the same thing. If it was a systematic failure across the corporation make the cost substantial, but when it's a single or small group acting stupid it should be minimal.

I think he should be compensated, but I think the individuals should be fired as punishment and he should get a 10th of what he is asking for. We have gone crazy with these awards and it really needs to stop.

In this case it could be argued that comments and actions taken by the mayor of Irving led directly to the anti-muslim atmosphere in the school.

Before this "clock bomb" incident she had been making the talk show rounds (Glenn Beck, Frank Gaffney, ect) as a prominent defender of "American values" against Muslin influence.  Here is what the Dallas Morning News said about her in March well before the "clock bomb" incident

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20150319-dispute-on-islam-roils-irving.ece

 The intense national spotlight on Islam has shifted to Irving, where Mayor Beth Van Duyne has accused mosque leaders of creating separate laws for Muslims and the City Council voted Thursday to endorse a state bill that Muslims say targets their faith.

The dispute has made Van Duyne a hero among a fringe movement that believes Muslims — a tiny fraction of the U.S. population — are plotting to take over American culture and courts.


“It fuels anti-Islamic hysteria,” said Zia Sheikh, imam at the Islamic Center of Irving. “Her whole point was to rile up her supporters. ... The problem is we become the whipping boys.” 




The police ended up having to provide extra security to the Mosque in Irving because of threats and people harassing the members of the Mosque.

The "clock bomb" incident was just the final straw according to the boy's family.  they claim that he had been a  victim of harrassment at the school long before he was expelled over the clock.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I guess the GoFundMe and LaunchGood Cash raising campaigns weren't enough either.

Launchgood: 20k
GoFundMe: 8k

[fredtoast]

(11-24-2015, 02:31 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I guess the GoFundMe and LaunchGood Cash raising campaigns weren't enough either.

Launchgood: 20k
GoFundMe: 8k

Why should others pay for the mistakes the school and/or city made?

[StLucieBengal]

(11-24-2015, 01:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Different issue.  The kid with the pop tart admitted that it was supposed to look like a gun.  And they didn't handcuff the kid for making a gun from a pop tart.  Stupid rule, but totally different issue.

They handcuffed the kid for his safety. And a food item is different than a manipulated clock. They knew what they were doing. The kids family is a bunch of slimey people .

They need to just beat it to Qatar.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-24-2015, 02:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why should others pay for the mistakes the school and/or city made?

No one should pay. Send the whole family outta here.

[fredtoast]

(11-24-2015, 03:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They handcuffed the kid for his safety. 

Explain please.

How was he "safer" in handcuffs?

[StLucieBengal]

(11-24-2015, 03:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Explain please.

How was he "safer" in handcuffs?

When they arrest or detain someone even at his age . They police policy was to handcuff them. If he gets injured while detained then the police we liable . It's their policy locally there. I'm sure Socio can expand on the police side of this . I will need to find the articles that mentioned this during the time this was a thing. But I do remember there was a reason they handcuffed him and it was a liability issue .

[fredtoast]

(11-24-2015, 03:39 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When they arrest or detain someone even at his age .  They police policy was to handcuff them. 

I seriously doubt if this is true, but Iwill gladly look at any proof you have.

I know it is not the policy anywhere around here or many other states.

[Au165]

(11-24-2015, 01:51 PM)Benton Wrote: A district elects board members. City residents elect councils. Corporations have board members. All are extensions of the majority, or at least that's the idea. If a community doesn't like having stupid people in charge, it's the requirement of the community to put better leadership in place.  If they fail that — because they're too stupid not to put someone not stupid in charge — then they're getting punished for their own stupidity.

But I agree that some of the settlements and rulings are overboard.

No, a teacher was hired by a principal, who was hired by a superintendent, who was hired by a school board, who was elected by a community. That is too many degrees of separation from the community to say because a teacher (or even a small group within a school) did something racist the whole community should give a family $15 million. There is no way a community can make a conscious decision about the beliefs of a person within it's school district. People that are part of an organization are still free thinking humans that can change their view at any time, if someone wakes up one day and has a change of heart on how they feel about a certain ethnicity there is no way a community can reasonably be expected to know that.

As I said if there were comments made from the top down influencing such behavior it is one thing, but I highly doubt that is the case in most issues were a single person does something stupid and an entire organization receives punishment for it.

[Benton]

(11-24-2015, 05:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, a teacher was hired by a principal, who was hired by a superintendent, who was hired by a school board, who was elected by a community. That is too many degrees of separation from the community to say because a teacher (or even a small group within a school) did something racist the whole community should give a family $15 million.

I can't say how it is in every state. In Kentucky, we have Site-Based Decision Making Councils. One for each school. It's made of parents, teachers and administrators. They have input on hiring, discipline, firing, teacher pay, school policies, etc. 

And the teachers (at least here) aren't hired by the principal. They're hired by the super. Who is appointed based off the elected board with input from the SBDM. Principals are hired by the super also. So... at least in my state... if you don't like what your super is doing or who he has hired, you're responsible as you put the board in place that hired him, and the SBDM council in place that went along with his actions.

Quote:There is no way a community can make a conscious decision about the beliefs of a person within it's school district. People that are part of an organization are still free thinking humans that can change their view at any time, if someone wakes up one day and has a change of heart on how they feel about a certain ethnicity there is no way a community can reasonably be expected to know that.

That's the rub about representative government. At the end of the day, we elect flawed people because people are flawed. But it's still better than most other options.

Quote:As I said if there were comments made from the top down influencing such behavior it is one thing, but I highly doubt that is the case in most issues were a single person does something stupid and an entire organization receives punishment for it.

Silence is equally as big a problem as promoting it. If you elect a board that does not have policies in place to deal with racism (or even just perceived racism), you elected a bad board. If they had policies and hired a super who didn't enforce them, that's still on the voters for voting in an ineffective board.

Look, I get that it stinks. But people are ultimately responsible for their associations. If you elect dumb people, you get dumb problems. If you know a problem exists and do nothing to stop it (which Mayor McNuttyPants was running around for months whipping people into a frothy fervor over the looming Texas Jihad she foresaw coming), you are condoning it.

I live in Kentucky. For most of my adult life I've voted against Mitch McConnell, but, at the end of the day, his cronyist policies are as much my fault as they are every person who voted for him. Why? Because all I did was vote. I've never ran against him, I've never supported anyone who ran against him, I've never started a campaign against him or his legislation. In my job I've written some not nice things about him, but that's not exactly the same. So, even though I'm far removed from him, I'm ultimately as responsible for my representation as every other Kentuckian.

[fredtoast]

(11-24-2015, 05:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: No, a teacher was hired by a principal, who was hired by a superintendent, who was hired by a school board, who was elected by a community. That is too many degrees of separation from the community to say because a teacher (or even a small group within a school) did something racist the whole community should give a family $15 million. There is no way a community can make a conscious decision about the beliefs of a person within it's school district. People that are part of an organization are still free thinking humans that can change their view at any time, if someone wakes up one day and has a change of heart on how they feel about a certain ethnicity there is no way a community can reasonably be expected to know that.

As I said if there were comments made from the top down influencing such behavior it is one thing, but I highly doubt that is the case in most issues were a single person does something stupid and an entire organization receives punishment for it.

I say the police are more at fault than one single teacher.  The police were the ones who questioned him and handcuffed him.

But I am also guessing that the claim against the school covers a long period of time instead of just this one incident.  The family claims that the boy has been victim of unfair treatment by many school employees.  They specifically allege that their son had been the victim of abuse based on his race and the school failed to do anything about it.

That whole community had worked up a pretty big hatred of all things Muslim before this incident with the clock.  I will bet that the people running the schools were on the same side as the Mayor and a majority of the citizens.  They considered this boy and his family as a threat to their "American values" and treated him that way.

[fredtoast]

(11-24-2015, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That whole community had worked up a pretty big hatred of all things Muslim before this incident with the clock.  I will bet that the people running the schools were on the same side as the Mayor and a majority of the citizens.  They considered this boy and his family as a threat to their "American values" and treated him that way.

More fun in Irving.  .  .  .  

11-22-15

In the latest anti-Islamic incident to take place following the Paris attacks, demonstrators in Irving, Texas, protested on the sidewalk outside a mosque with guns, Islamophobic signs and American flags. 

The dozen or so demonstrators referring to themselves as the Bureau of American Islamic Relations, or BAIR, gathered outside the Islamic Center of Irving on Saturday. One sign read "Stop the Islamization of America" and another, with arrows pointing at armed protesters dressed in military clothes and face masks, said "The solution to Islamic terrorism," local outlets reported.

"We are here protesting Syrian refugees coming to America, protesting the Islamization of America," BAIR spokesman David Wright told Fox 4 News.  Wright, who was carrying a 12-gauge shotgun, told The Dallas Morning News that his weapon was mainly for self-defense but added, "We do want to show force.  It would be ridiculous to protest Islam without defending ourselves."







And today I read that a white supremacist group, the Texas Rebel Knights, have planned a rally at the mosque on December 12.


The clock boy's family was lucky to get out of their while they could.  There is a good chance someone is going to end up dead around there just for being (or looking like) a Muslim.  We have all seen how much violence a "mob mentality" can produce when the people just have stuff to break up and throw around.  Now imagine what could happen when they all have guns.

[Vas Deferens]

(12-01-2015, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: More fun in Irving.  .  .  .  

11-22-15

In the latest anti-Islamic incident to take place following the Paris attacks, demonstrators in Irving, Texas, protested on the sidewalk outside a mosque with guns, Islamophobic signs and American flags. 

The dozen or so demonstrators referring to themselves as the Bureau of American Islamic Relations, or BAIR, gathered outside the Islamic Center of Irving on Saturday. One sign read "Stop the Islamization of America" and another, with arrows pointing at armed protesters dressed in military clothes and face masks, said "The solution to Islamic terrorism," local outlets reported.


"We are here protesting Syrian refugees coming to America, protesting the Islamization of America," BAIR spokesman David Wright told Fox 4 News.  Wright, who was carrying a 12-gauge shotgun, told The Dallas Morning News that his weapon was mainly for self-defense but added, "We do want to show force. … It would be ridiculous to protest Islam without defending ourselves."





And today I read that a white supremacist group, the Texas Rebel Knights, have planned a rally at the mosque on December 12.

So depressing.  So very depressing.

[Rotobeast]

(12-01-2015, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: More fun in Irving.  .  .  .  

11-22-15

In the latest anti-Islamic incident to take place following the Paris attacks, demonstrators in Irving, Texas, protested on the sidewalk outside a mosque with guns, Islamophobic signs and American flags. 

The dozen or so demonstrators referring to themselves as the Bureau of American Islamic Relations, or BAIR, gathered outside the Islamic Center of Irving on Saturday. One sign read "Stop the Islamization of America" and another, with arrows pointing at armed protesters dressed in military clothes and face masks, said "The solution to Islamic terrorism," local outlets reported.

"We are here protesting Syrian refugees coming to America, protesting the Islamization of America," BAIR spokesman David Wright told Fox 4 News.  Wright, who was carrying a 12-gauge shotgun, told The Dallas Morning News that his weapon was mainly for self-defense but added, "We do want to show force.  It would be ridiculous to protest Islam without defending ourselves."







And today I read that a white supremacist group, the Texas Rebel Knights, have planned a rally at the mosque on December 12.


The clock boy's family was lucky to get out of their while they could.  There is a good chance someone is going to end up dead around there just for being (or looking like) a Muslim.  We have all seen how much violence a "mob mentality" can produce when the people just have stuff to break up and throw around.  Now imagine what could happen when they all have guns.

Idiots !

I am not a fan of the mass immigration plan, but these people are not helping  anything. 

[Vas Deferens]

(12-01-2015, 03:29 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Idiots !

I am not a fan of the mass immigration plan, but these people are not helping  anything. 

Can we swap these dumbfucks out with more families like the ones profiled in that article recently?  I would be all for that.  Would love to start the DeTexasification movement.

[Rotobeast]

(12-01-2015, 05:21 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Can we swap these dumbfucks out with more families like the ones profiled in that article recently?  I would be all for that.  Would love to start the DeTexasification movement.

I was just thinking about swapping out the Planned Parenthood shooter out for some.


FYI.... your post count is evil.