Confederate monuments are ok, but lynching memorial monuments are going too far

[Griever]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/28/lynching-memorial-backlash-montgomery-alabama

Good ol back country alabama

[StLucieBengal]

That monument is crazy.

No historical value whatsoever.

[Dill]

(05-02-2018, 01:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That monument is crazy.

No historical value whatsoever.

Makes white people feel bad.



This is the responsible way to remember the Great War of Northern Aggression.

[Belsnickel]

(05-02-2018, 01:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That monument is crazy.

No historical value whatsoever.

No historical value? Really? You don't see any value in monuments intended to remind us of the atrocities of our past in a way that helps insure we do not repeat them? Memorializing the victims of unjustices that often don't even have a marked grave?

[Griever]

(05-02-2018, 01:54 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That monument is crazy.

No historical value whatsoever.

I'm sure you feel the same way about holocaust memorials

[Belsnickel]

(05-02-2018, 02:39 PM)Griever Wrote: I'm sure you feel the same way about holocaust memorials

See, I was going to draw that direct comparison, but decided to start it a bit more general.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-02-2018, 12:17 PM)Griever Wrote: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/28/lynching-memorial-backlash-montgomery-alabama

Good ol back country alabama

Well, now we at least have both sides complaining about monuments. I guess that's something. *shrugs*

[StLucieBengal]

(05-02-2018, 02:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No historical value? Really? You don't see any value in monuments intended to remind us of the atrocities of our past in a way that helps insure we do not repeat them? Memorializing the victims of unjustices that often don't even have a marked grave?

Statues in chains are way over the top. How about a memorial with names of those who endured or something a bit toned down.

[Belsnickel]

(05-02-2018, 04:11 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Statues in chains are way over the top. How about a memorial with names of those who endured or something a bit toned down.

The statue in chains is actually not the memorial itself. The memorial itself is one that contains the names, broken out by county, or all the verified lynchings in the country. They are on pillars that you walk among and down through, until you are looking up at them as one would look up at a lynching victim. That's the actual lynching memorial that they are talking about, but the other statues are artistic pieces showing the history of slavery in the country, which was pre-lynching era. People didn't tend to kill their chattel like that, they used lynchings after they were free to maintain a form of oppression on people, like a form of terrorism the threat of lynching hung over black communities.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-02-2018, 02:34 PM)Dill Wrote: Makes white people feel bad.



This is the responsible way to remember the Great War of Northern Aggression.

I wrote a longer response. But my iPad died,

The confederacy was a lot more relevant and not everything they did was bad, some here would have you believe the confederacy was as bad as the third Reich.

[Belsnickel]

(05-02-2018, 04:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I wrote a longer response. But my iPad died,

The confederacy was a lot more relevant and not everything they did was bad, some here would have you believe the confederacy was as bad as the third Reich.

The Confederacy, a rebellious cause of 4 years, was a lot more relevant than a system of oppression and terrorism that has had impacts reaching over 150 years beyond its end after 250 years as an institution? The Confederacy, an organization that was created to protect the institution which that installation memorializes, is more relevant than the institution of slavery itself?

Bullshit.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-02-2018, 04:17 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The statue in chains is actually not the memorial itself. The memorial itself is one that contains the names, broken out by county, or all the verified lynchings in the country. They are on pillars that you walk among and down through, until you are looking up at them as one would look up at a lynching victim. That's the actual lynching memorial that they are talking about, but the other statues are artistic pieces showing the history of slavery in the country, which was pre-lynching era. People didn't tend to kill their chattel like that, they used lynchings after they were free to maintain a form of oppression on people, like a form of terrorism the threat of lynching hung over black communities.

I don’t have a problem with listing names.

I also don’t demonize people for slavery, it’s terrible, but in their time it was the way of doing business. They did get it sorted out, although later than most, and issues still exist but those are mostly self inflicted. Too much victim mentality.

[Belsnickel]

(05-02-2018, 04:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don’t have a problem with listing names.

I also don’t demonize people for slavery, it’s terrible, but in their time it was the way of doing business. They did get it sorted out, although later than most, and issues still exist but those are mostly self inflicted. Too much victim mentality.

Hard not to have a victim mentality when they are still not treated equally. But I know you aren't going to accept any of the research done on this so I'm just going to not bother continuing this conversation. There is no point.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-02-2018, 04:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Hard not to have a victim mentality when they are still not treated equally. But I know you aren't going to accept any of the research done on this so I'm just going to not bother continuing this conversation. There is no point.

Are you going to try and bring up the implicit bias stuff? Even the people run that test do not think it’s accurate.

Everyone has the same chances in today’s USA. Some have an easier path due to money but anyone can change their station in life.

[Griever]

(05-02-2018, 04:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Are you going to try and bring up the implicit bias stuff? Even the people run that test do not think it’s accurate.

Everyone has the same chances in today’s USA. Some have an easier path due to money but anyone can change their station in life.

Everyone??

[StLucieBengal]

(05-02-2018, 04:45 PM)Griever Wrote: Everyone??

Who can’t do something?

Give me a who and a what.

[Belsnickel]

(05-02-2018, 04:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Are you going to try and bring up the implicit bias stuff? Even the people run that test do not think it’s accurate.

Everyone has the same chances in today’s USA. Some have an easier path due to money but anyone can change their station in life.

They don't think it's accurate, eh? Source? But, that's not what I was referring to. I was just referring to the mountains of evidence showing that there is continual inequity in this country based on race. Not everyone has the same chances in our current society. That is a myth.

[*bfine32*]

Slavery existed in the country and neither side can wish it away. I have no problem with folks that want to pay tribute to their ancestry. However, if it is paid for, maintained by public funds then the citizenry should have a voice of what types of tributes they want.

[Belsnickel]

(05-02-2018, 05:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Slavery existed in the country and neither side can wish it away. I have no problem with folks that want to pay tribute to their ancestry. However, if it is paid for, maintained by public funds then the citizenry should have a voice of what types of tributes they want.

It was built and is maintained by the Equal Justice Initiative, not public funds.

[Dill]

(05-02-2018, 04:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don’t have a problem with listing names.  

I also don’t demonize people for slavery, it’s terrible, but in their time it was the way of doing business.  They did get it sorted out, although later than most, and issues still exist but those are mostly self inflicted.  Too much victim mentality.

I think they needed some help.  Couldn't do it on there on.

I agree that whites are too sensitive about remembering our common history.  They need to stop asking like they are persecuted when the past is more accurately memorialized.