Torch wielding protestors yell Nazi slogans as they defend Confederate statue

[BmorePat87]

(05-15-2017, 02:40 PM)Dill Wrote: So these people see Russia as an ideological ally then, with Trump in the White House?

I think that sums it up, yea.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-15-2017, 06:14 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Removing these statues doesnt remove them from history. If anything it removes the history of the actual statue on who made & paid for it, not the history it represents. It's like if a statue of Lincoln doesn't exist anywhere, does that mean he is erased from history? No, because history is found in books and now of course the interweb, though books is where the real history is told. 

To the bolded above, a vast majority of these statues were erected in the decades after the Civil War ended when the south was in full segregation mode. It was almost as if they were put up to remind the black population that even though we lost the war, we did not lose the war on equal rights with you.

I get that argument.  Would it not work in reverse as well, that removing the statues doesn't do anything to end to erase the history of the confederacy or its members?  Essentially, my point is if the statues mean nothing then there is no argument for removing them, thus the statues mean something to some people.  Memorials serve one purpose, to keep the event or person in living memory.

[*bfine32*]

Easy for me to say as a white male, but: Why does a statue Robert E. Lee offend anyone in today's society? No one is forcing nyone to pay homage to this idol. I mean we have statues nd even a National Holiday for Christopher Columbus and Robert E. Lee is Santa Clause compared to him.

[Dill]

(05-15-2017, 08:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Easy for me to say as a white male, but: Why does a statue Robert E. Lee offend anyone in today's society? No one is forcing nyone to pay homage to this idol. I mean we have statues nd even a National Holiday for Christopher Columbus and Robert E. Lee is Santa Clause compared to him.

Not a lot of background on this. Maybe the city just wanted to sell the statue.

It's not like the statue that was completely dismantled in Louisiana.
The protestors could just buy Lee and put him upon somebody's lawn.

[Benton]

(05-15-2017, 11:14 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm not getting the "Russia is our friend" chants.

Russia has been idealized by white supremacists for a long time. Overwhelmingly white population, powerful military, fascist state, fewer rights for minorities. If you're a white male, it's perceived as a better place.  

[*michaelsean*]

(05-16-2017, 12:22 AM)Benton Wrote: Russia has been idealized by white supremacists for a long time. Overwhelmingly white population, powerful military, fascist state, fewer rights for minorities. If you're a white male, it's perceived as a better place.  

Well they ought to follow the Hollywood libs to Canada and then turn left.  

[Belsnickel]

(05-15-2017, 11:37 PM)Dill Wrote: Not a lot of background on this. Maybe the city just wanted to sell the statue.

It's not like the statue that was completely dismantled in Louisiana.
The protestors could just buy Lee and put him upon somebody's lawn.

There has been a large movement from the citizens seeking to have the statue removed and the park renamed because of the slavery issue. I'll provide a little more background on this since I'm the most local one to this issue (and my wife and I talked about this at length last night).

The park and the statue were two gifts by Paul McIntire, who gave many things to Charlottesville. http://www.charlottesville.org/departments-and-services/departments-h-z/neighborhood-development-services/historic-preservation-and-design-review/historic-resources-committee/transit-station-exhibits/paul-mcintire-s-gifts-to-charlottesville

The Lee and Jackson statues are actually good pieces of art, and have been noted for the horses in particular. In truth, if you really want to talk about a problematic statue there is the one of that is in the middle of a street that is the Lewis, Clark, and Sacajawea monument. Yes, we want to be proud of them as they are locals, but the cowering indigenous female provides a very problematic image if we are actually looking at the works in this way. Of course, there isn't a strong contingent of indigenous people in the city (and even if there were, Virginia tribes can't get federal recognition) so no one is raising a fuss about it.

Honestly, there are a lot of other racial issues in the city. There has been some serious gentrification that has gone on, issues with low-income housing, etc. But, some of the more well-to-do members of the community are using this as a token battle against the injustices faced by minorities instead of even discussing how the former location of the slave auction block downtown has only a plaque in the ground.

[Dill]

(05-16-2017, 12:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There has been a large movement from the citizens seeking to have the statue removed and the park renamed because of the slavery issue. I'll provide a little more background on this since I'm the most local one to this issue (and my wife and I talked about this at length last night).

The park and the statue were two gifts by Paul McIntire, who gave many things to Charlottesville. http://www.charlottesville.org/departments-and-services/departments-h-z/neighborhood-development-services/historic-preservation-and-design-review/historic-resources-committee/transit-station-exhibits/paul-mcintire-s-gifts-to-charlottesville

The Lee and Jackson statues are actually good pieces of art, and have been noted for the horses in particular. In truth, if you really want to talk about a problematic statue there is the one of that is in the middle of a street that is the Lewis, Clark, and Sacajawea monument. Yes, we want to be proud of them as they are locals, but the cowering indigenous female provides a very problematic image if we are actually looking at the works in this way. Of course, there isn't a strong contingent of indigenous people in the city (and even if there were, Virginia tribes can't get federal recognition) so no one is raising a fuss about it.

Honestly, there are a lot of other racial issues in the city. There has been some serious gentrification that has gone on, issues with low-income housing, etc. But, some of the more well-to-do members of the community are using this as a token battle against the injustices faced by minorities instead of even discussing how the former location of the slave auction block downtown has only a plaque in the ground.

Thanks Bels.