Coronavirus Information...who do you trust?

[GMDino]

A friend of ours posted some information about someone who thought they had the virus (all the symptoms and treatments) but ended up testing negative for the antibodies.  During our online conversation about why why it matters that in the end he did not have it when obviously other  do and did she said she doesn't trust the FDA, CDC or WHO about almost anything.  I asked who she DOES trust and didn't really get a good answer but it's not "the media" either.

I am of the opinion that if I need my taxes done I will trust someone who does it for a living.  Sometimes you don't get the BEST person to do it and you get screwed but I don't then take them to my buddy the butcher the next year because on accountant made a mistake.  Heck I might take it back to the same guy if he comes with enough credentials and respect from others for past work he did.

So with this virus I am trusting Fauci and the others who have done this kind of thing most of their lives.

Unfortunately we have a ratings-focused POTUS who thinks because he had a smart uncle and he passed a cognitive test (twice) he knows more...and equally unfortunately a lot of people simply believe what he says as bible truth.  Well, until someone comes along and explains what Trump "meant".

Now the WH is going after Fauci...probably (my guess) because he is getting too much good press and Trump isn't.  This seems like bad policy and seems to be coming from and aimed at people who don't understand how science works.

The Trump White House is dropping oppo on Anthony Fauci.

Let that sink in. https://t.co/flYKxGdAiI

— Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) July 12, 2020

 

[GMDino]

[Belsnickel]

I trust medical doctors and epidemiologists. I trust in the science behind it. That being said, I have a hard time with decisions being made about opening back up. I'm, personally, not going to be going out to eat or attending indoor, in-person events for quite a while even though these are now things that can be done in Virginia. I will continue to wear a mask when around others and try my best to stay at least 6 feet away whenever possible. These are things that the science tells us will help reduce the spread of the disease.

[GMDino]

(07-13-2020, 11:26 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I trust medical doctors and epidemiologists. I trust in the science behind it. That being said, I have a hard time with decisions being made about opening back up. I'm, personally, not going to be going out to eat or attending indoor, in-person events for quite a while even though these are now things that can be done in Virginia. I will continue to wear a mask when around others and try my best to stay at least 6 feet away whenever possible. These are things that the science tells us will help reduce the spread of the disease.

Many of *those* decisions are being made with no regard to the information and science unfortunately.

States were opening, or had plans to open, within days or weeks of the CDC guidelines being released.  I don't think any of them were close to meeting the benchmarks when they did open.  PA was VERY cautious and we are seeing localized spikes again anyway.

[fredtoast]

(07-13-2020, 10:15 AM)GMDino Wrote:

This type of logic is maddening.

"EVERYONE is lying."

"How do you know the truth if everyone is lying? What is your source of knowledge of the truth?"

"Donald Trump said so."

[*Nately120*]

(07-13-2020, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This type of logic is maddening.

"EVERYONE is lying."

"How do you know the truth if everyone is lying? What is your source of knowledge of the truth?"

"Donald Trump said so."

This stuff doesnt happen overnight.  I doubt the long-term goal was to make people ignore medical advice during an unprecedented pandemic, but I think years of telling people that scientists were liars in order to fight environmental regulations opened Pandora's box.  

In order to build support for neo conservative politics there was a long-term effort to convince people everyone but neo con politicians were liars who turned this country into an absolute shithole. 

I almost want to to back to the early 2000s and tell his current day supporters that in 2020 the only person you're going to trust is going to be Donald Trump. They'd have me committed. Ok so that sounds like a lousy idea.

[Millhouse]

(07-13-2020, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This type of logic is maddening.

"EVERYONE is lying."

"How do you know the truth if everyone is lying? What is your source of knowledge of the truth?"

"Donald Trump said so."

When it comes to things like JFK being assassinated, I truly believe there was a whole lot of lying and cover up going on, as there was a clear purpose and agenda involved.

When it comes to this, I just don't see how 'everyone' could be lying around the world just for the agenda of getting Trump out of office. It doesn't make any logical sense in coordinating something this large worldwide.

[*bfine32*]

I trust myself

[BrownAssClown]

We're in good hands people.

Trump knows more than our Generals do and Woolery knows more than all the Covid-19 experts put together! Move over Fauci, here comes Chuck!!!

[BmorePat87]

I don't trust guys fired by Wheel of Fortune.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-13-2020, 10:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: A friend of ours posted some information about someone who thought they had the virus (all the symptoms and treatments) but ended up testing negative for the antibodies.  During our online conversation about why why it matters that in the end he did not have it when obviously other  do and did she said she doesn't trust the FDA, CDC or WHO about almost anything.  I asked who she DOES trust and didn't really get a good answer but it's not "the media" either.

I am of the opinion that if I need my taxes done I will trust someone who does it for a living.  Sometimes you don't get the BEST person to do it and you get screwed but I don't then take them to my buddy the butcher the next year because on accountant made a mistake.  Heck I might take it back to the same guy if he comes with enough credentials and respect from others for past work he did.

So with this virus I am trusting Fauci and the others who have done this kind of thing most of their lives.

Unfortunately we have a ratings-focused POTUS who thinks because he had a smart uncle and he passed a cognitive test (twice) he knows more...and equally unfortunately a lot of people simply believe what he says as bible truth.  Well, until someone comes along and explains what Trump "meant".

Now the WH is going after Fauci...probably (my guess) because he is getting too much good press and Trump isn't.  This seems like bad policy and seems to be coming from and aimed at people who don't understand how science works.

The Trump White House is dropping oppo on Anthony Fauci.

Let that sink in. https://t.co/flYKxGdAiI

— Rick Wilson (@TheRickWilson) July 12, 2020

 

Trump wants to give the impression everything is normal. Fauci isn’t falling in line with the everything is normal facade. So the WH is attacking him. All so Trump has a better chance at re-election.

[*Nately120*]

(07-13-2020, 03:24 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I don't trust guys fired by Wheel of Fortune.

So Sajack/White in 2020?  Actually, make him the VP and make her the president. 

[BmorePat87]

(07-13-2020, 04:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So Sajack/White in 2020?  Actually, make him the VP and make her the president. 

He lives in MD so he's got one thing going right for him

[*jason*]

(07-13-2020, 11:26 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I trust medical doctors and epidemiologists. I trust in the science behind it. That being said, I have a hard time with decisions being made about opening back up. I'm, personally, not going to be going out to eat or attending indoor, in-person events for quite a while even though these are now things that can be done in Virginia. I will continue to wear a mask when around others and try my best to stay at least 6 feet away whenever possible. These are things that the science tells us will help reduce the spread of the disease.

Pretty much where I'm at. We're not alone either... On the few times I have ventured into public gathering places (I'll take a motorcycle and out to the sticks, and have a beer on a patio) the usual crowds aren't there. There not empty, but business is way down.

[BmorePat87]

(07-13-2020, 11:26 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I trust medical doctors and epidemiologists. I trust in the science behind it. That being said, I have a hard time with decisions being made about opening back up. I'm, personally, not going to be going out to eat or attending indoor, in-person events for quite a while even though these are now things that can be done in Virginia. I will continue to wear a mask when around others and try my best to stay at least 6 feet away whenever possible. These are things that the science tells us will help reduce the spread of the disease.

(07-13-2020, 07:18 PM)jason Wrote: Pretty much where I'm at. We're not alone either... On the few times I have ventured into public gathering places (I'll take a motorcycle and out to the sticks, and have a beer on a patio) the usual crowds aren't there. There not empty, but business is way down.

My wife, who has been super cautious, woke me up on the 4th and said she found a place in WV that was doing social distancing tubing. Ok sure, let's do it.

We get there and... yea...

No distancing whatsoever. Employees have masks, but no one else does and they are not asking anyone to wear them. There's an old pool with disinfectant for them to clean the life jackets, that's it. Buses jammed pack. They're telling people to all gather in this cramped room to watch a safety video. They drive you to a river and there's just hundreds of people along the river, packed on top of each other.

In MD they're allowing 50% capacity at restaurants and some places with big parking lots have converted them into outdoor seating... but it's still cramped and no one wears a mask. 

We went to a small town on the bay to walk around for our anniversary yesterday and no one was wearing the masks outside. We were on the Eastern Shore, so it's more conservative. Here in Baltimore, people are pretty strict with their masks. 

[*jason*]

(07-13-2020, 08:47 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: My wife, who has been super cautious, woke me up on the 4th and said she found a place in WV that was doing social distancing tubing. Ok sure, let's do it.

We get there and... yea...

No distancing whatsoever. Employees have masks, but no one else does and they are not asking anyone to wear them. There's an old pool with disinfectant for them to clean the life jackets, that's it. Buses jammed pack. They're telling people to all gather in this cramped room to watch a safety video. They drive you to a river and there's just hundreds of people along the river, packed on top of each other.

In MD they're allowing 50% capacity at restaurants and some places with big parking lots have converted them into outdoor seating... but it's still cramped and no one wears a mask. 

We went to a small town on the bay to walk around for our anniversary yesterday and no one was wearing the masks outside. We were on the Eastern Shore, so it's more conservative. Here in Baltimore, people are pretty strict with their masks. 

Yep... I love kayaking, but there's no way in hell I'm getting on a bus at a rental place... I'm supposed to take my daughter to Disney World in November. Wish they'd have just kept that ***** closed. If I'm going, I'm sure as hell not flying.

[*michaelsean*]

I don’t trust the death count. My neighbor is listed as a COVID death. Weighed over 600 lbs. Hospitalized at least five times in the last two years. Almost died twice. Called the paramedics one night and they said it’s probably COVID. Two nights later they call again and this time he’s barely conscious. He goes to the hospital and they test him. He dies the next day before his results came back. No word on the test results to his 71 year old mother on the results. Death certificate comes in and just says COVID-19. He died of kidney failure. Anytime they tried to put him on dialysis his BP dropped to a fatal level. Zero mention of kidney failure. Are we supposed to believe they didn’t inform his 71 year old mother whom he lived with that he had COVID? Now I don’t have a problem listing COVID if it contributes to a death, but I don’t think he even had it.

[fredtoast]

(07-13-2020, 09:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don’t trust the death count. My neighbor is listed as a COVID death. Weighed over 600 lbs. Hospitalized at least five times in the last two years. Almost died twice. Called the paramedics one night and they said it’s probably COVID. Two nights later they call again and this time he’s barely conscious. He goes to the hospital and they test him. He dies the next day before his results came back. No word on the test results to his 71 year old mother on the results. Death certificate comes in and just says COVID-19. He died of kidney failure. Anytime they tried to put him on dialysis his BP dropped to a fatal level. Zero mention of kidney failure. Are we supposed to believe they didn’t inform his 71 year old mother whom he lived with that he had COVID?  Now I don’t have a problem listing COVID if it contributes to a death, but I don’t think he even had it.

I am not questioning your personal credibility, but there are really no facts to back up the claim that covid deaths are being over-reported.  tell your neighbors family to call Fox News because so far they have not been able to provide specific provable cases of non-covid deaths being sttributed to covid 19.

In fact when you look at "excessive deaths" (increase of number of deaths from natural causes over last year) only a fraction of them are attributed to covid.  Based on these facts, and the lack of testsing to confirm covid deaths most people who look at the actual numbers feel the number of deaths attributed to covid is actually UNDER REPPORTED.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/about-30-covid-deaths-may-not-be-classified-such

The talk about all these hospitals counting every death as covid related is not based on any actual evidence.  Instead it is just people saying "Doctors and hospitals will obviously lie in order to get more money."

[*michaelsean*]

(07-13-2020, 10:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not questioning your personal credibility, but there are really no facts to back up the claim that covid deaths are being over-reported.  tell your neighbors family to call Fox News because so far they have not been able to provide specific provable cases of non-covid deaths being sttributed to covid 19.

In fact when you look at "excessive deaths" (increase of number of deaths from natural causes over last year) only a fraction of them are attributed to covid.  Based on these facts, and the lack of testsing to confirm covid deaths most people who look at the actual numbers feel the number of deaths attributed to covid is actually UNDER REPPORTED.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/about-30-covid-deaths-may-not-be-classified-such

The talk about all these hospitals counting every death as covid related is not based on any actual evidence.  Instead it is just people saying "Doctors and hospitals will obviously lie in order to get more money."

No doubt it’s 100% anecdotal. It just makes me suspicious. I’m not going to go splashing it all over Facebook or something because obviously it’s not evidence, but I don’t mind sharing here.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-13-2020, 09:46 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don’t trust the death count. My neighbor is listed as a COVID death. Weighed over 600 lbs. Hospitalized at least five times in the last two years. Almost died twice. Called the paramedics one night and they said it’s probably COVID. Two nights later they call again and this time he’s barely conscious. He goes to the hospital and they test him. He dies the next day before his results came back. No word on the test results to his 71 year old mother on the results. Death certificate comes in and just says COVID-19. He died of kidney failure. Anytime they tried to put him on dialysis his BP dropped to a fatal level. Zero mention of kidney failure. Are we supposed to believe they didn’t inform his 71 year old mother whom he lived with that he had COVID? Now I don’t have a problem listing COVID if it contributes to a death, but I don’t think he even had it.

Well, he was tested before he died so there is at least a chance Covid 19 was the final straw that broke the camel’s back.

Sounds like he was one stubbed toe away from sepsis and multi system organ failure like Jack Daniels if you believe the stories.