(05-24-2021, 03:18 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I just dont want to hear how the U.S.A. is the greatest country on the planet after how lunatic politicians (mainly whom were from one political party and a certain ex-President) handled Covid, and how the CDC who are supposed to be smart have also handled it including the latest mask guideline which just ticks me off.
This is my first post in quite a few months because back in January I was diagnosed with a major medical condition, and have been getting treatments with hospital visits since. Im not out of the woods yet as I have an upcoming bone marrow transplant at any point, so I am now relegated to staying home 24/7 since many aren't wearing masks in stores and elsewhere now. I cant take the now big increase of risk (thanks CDC!) in being around anyone for the most part. I also cant get vaccinated yet either, which is a double whammy because I need it asap.
Sorry to hear about your predicament. Maybe some of these pseudo-experts who don’t think it’s that big of a deal can calm your nerves as opposed to the advice your doctors have given you.
It’s all ******. But this is the world we live in with the US being incredibly ignorant comparatively. Good luck.
(05-24-2021, 10:30 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Do flat earthers have to pay more for health insurance? I assume you are for single payer/universal health coverage. If that happens, how do we get back at them then?
(05-21-2021, 04:53 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Right. The VAST majority of people, vaccinated or not, do not end up on ventilators. That does not mean vaccinations are without warrant.
You can still "get" COVID once vaccinated, but its ability to debilitate a vaccinated person is diminished.
If let to spread unabated, the mortality rate of COVID would increase exponentially.
This is the problem with uniformed people spreading anecdotal half-information around like it holds the same weight as scientific expertise.
I spoke with a pulmonologist last month who said exactly the bolded--and that he has seen over a thousand people die since the beginning of the Pandemic.
As I understood him, the vaccine doesn't 'prevent' people from getting COVID, rather it diminishes their chances of ending up on a ventilator and dying. That's what "90% effective" refers to it. Not "90% don't get COVID after vaccination."
So of course people will "still get COVID"--it's just that a massively reduced number will experience serious effects and/or die from it. And the virus will have more difficulty spreading through them, never achieving much mass.
I think Laura and Tucker have regularly addressed the "problem" of people still getting COVID after vaccination though. How can we trust medical authorities after they lie to us??
(05-21-2021, 11:51 PM)jason Wrote: I'm so over discussing this shit to with the willfully ignorant. You don't wanna get the vaccine? Cool... Don't. I did, and everyone I know (minus my ex wife) has too. At this point, I don't give a f**k what everyone else is doing. That may change if the virus can't be squashed out, and eventually mutates into something much more deadly (which all of these deniers seemed to have been hoping for in the first place), and put this whole situation back to square one.
Smallpox would still be killing us all, and we'd be suffering from polio to this day if these folks would have be spreading their nonsense years and decades ago (thanks Zuckerberg)... Fun fact; the last polio outbreak in this country hit the Amish. Guess what the Amish don't believe in.
I share your frustration with this.
The problem is, the willfully ignorants' vote counts just as much as ours, as do their advertising dollars, which drive politicians and news sites that amplify disinformation. ("Masks are like the Holocaust! Same thing!)
(05-26-2021, 10:48 AM)Dill Wrote:
I spoke with a pulmonologist last month who said exactly the bolded--and that he has seen over a thousand people die since the beginning of the Pandemic.
As I understood him, the vaccine doesn't 'prevent' people from getting COVID, rather it diminishes their chances of ending up on a ventilator and dying. That's what "90% effective" refers to it. Not "90% don't get COVID after vaccination."
So of course people will "still get COVID"--it's just that a massively reduced number will experience serious effects and/or die from it. And the virus will have more difficulty spreading through them, never achieving much mass.
I think Laura and Tucker have regularly addressed the "problem" of people still getting COVID after vaccination though. How can we trust medical authorities after they lie to us??
I don't know if you misunderstood the pulmonologist, or they were wrong in their explanation, but this is inaccurate. I'm fortunate in that with my connection to Scouting I have access to two very highly regarded immunologists, one Ph.D. and one an M.D., from the University of Virginia. They both volunteer in our local council and have been pivotal in managing our response to the pandemic. Anyway, the way they explain it to the laypeople in these meetings is that the 90-ish percent you see on the effective rates is the effectiveness in preventing the infection at all. The vaccines, however, have a 100% effective rate in clinical studies for preventing a debilitating infection.
The number of times I have been a room with the two of them as they have explained this to people in our Scouting program is in the double digits, so I have definitely got what they have been saying down.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(05-26-2021, 11:22 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Anyway, the way they explain it to the laypeople in these meetings is that the 90-ish percent you see on the effective rates is the effectiveness in preventing the infection at all. The vaccines, however, have a 100% effective rate in clinical studies for preventing a debilitating infection.
I think it's worth emphasizing the compounding effects of the vaccine. Covid is transmitted at a higher rate as an individual becomes more 'debilitated', releasing more of the virus into the air through coughing and struggling to catch their breath.
(05-26-2021, 11:22 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't know if you misunderstood the pulmonologist, or they were wrong in their explanation, but this is inaccurate. I'm fortunate in that with my connection to Scouting I have access to two very highly regarded immunologists, one Ph.D. and one an M.D., from the University of Virginia. They both volunteer in our local council and have been pivotal in managing our response to the pandemic. Anyway, the way they explain it to the laypeople in these meetings is that the 90-ish percent you see on the effective rates is the effectiveness in preventing the infection at all. The vaccines, however, have a 100% effective rate in clinical studies for preventing a debilitating infection.
The number of times I have been a room with the two of them as they have explained this to people in our Scouting program is in the double digits, so I have definitely got what they have been saying down.
Well it was over a month ago, so I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure he said we could still get the infection despite vaccination, and the "90%" referred to chances of serious illness/dying, NOT just getting the virus.
I'll trust your experts over my memory here, though.
(05-26-2021, 12:55 PM)Dill Wrote: Well it was over a month ago, so I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure he said we could still get the infection despite vaccination, and the "90%" referred to chances of serious illness/dying, NOT just getting the virus.
I'll trust your experts over my memory here, though.
Maybe it was that you could still transmit the virus. There were some studies that showed the ability to transmit the virus even if not technically infected due to the vaccination.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
Well this vaccine is all we've got, so I'm gonna go ahead and roll with "it works".
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
Figured this was as good a place as any to post this:
My wife had out patient surgery yesterday (she is home and recovering and is doing well, thanks for asking) and for me to be there with her I had to wear a mask.
Eight hours. 6am until 2pm. Minutes 15 minutes to eat breakfast and a few minutes eating a snack and outside moving the car.
Let me tell you it, it was....not a hassle at all.
Other than my ear hurt a bit (wasn't a cloth one) I didn't even realize it was on most of the time.
And every single person had one on all day. (Most of them correctly. )
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(08-12-2021, 09:07 AM)GMDino Wrote: Figured this was as good a place as any to post this:
My wife had out patient surgery yesterday (she is home and recovering and is doing well, thanks for asking) and for me to be there with her I had to wear a mask.
Eight hours. 6am until 2pm. Minutes 15 minutes to eat breakfast and a few minutes eating a snack and outside moving the car.
Let me tell you it, it was....not a hassle at all.
Other than my ear hurt a bit (wasn't a cloth one) I didn't even realize it was on most of the time.
And every single person had one on all day. (Most of them correctly. )
Don't be modest...you clearly now know how it feels to be a slave and/or a Jew being killed in an attempt to either convince god to stop sending the bubonic plague or to revitalize Germany after WWI.
(05-26-2021, 01:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well this vaccine is all we've got, so I'm gonna go ahead and roll with "it works".
The way I sees it is that unless you are lost at sea or DOA some day sooner or later you're going to have to trust doctors to save your ass...may as well give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. What do anti-vaxxers do when they get sick with covid or otherwise? Do they phone up their favorite politicians or TV "news" people or do they go to the hospital?
This is just wrong. Black adults are more vaccinated than evangelicals or white Republicans. Interestingly enough white Republicans are vaccinated at a slightly lower rate than Republicans overall. pic.twitter.com/UFxiJPd5iD
— Jeff, God of Biscuits Part II (@lurkernonumbers) August 20, 2021
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Just as I expected, the CDC is now saying that those vaccinated early are at more risk of severe illness if they get covid delta, as opposed to those who even didnt get vaccinated at all. And of course the only way out is the booster shot. Who couldn't predict this lol?
Who do I trust? No one. Especially watching TV and seeing medication commercials a lot, and most of the commercials are about the potential side effects of their FDA approved medicine that went through years of trials, unlike the covid flu shots. Line up and get your jab folks. Have fun with it
(08-20-2021, 02:37 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Just as I expected, the CDC is now saying that those vaccinated early are at more risk of severe illness if they get covid delta, as opposed to those who even didnt get vaccinated at all. And of course the only way out is the booster shot. Who couldn't predict this lol?
Who do I trust? No one. Especially watching TV and seeing medication commercials a lot, and most of the commercials are about the potential side effects of their FDA approved medicine that went through years of trials, unlike the covid flu shots. Line up and get your jab folks. Have fun with it
I'm unclear where in this video the CDC states your claim. Can you help?
17.09 is the closest I can get, but she's not saying 'as opposed to those who even didnt get vaccinated at all'
(08-20-2021, 04:57 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I'm unclear where in this video the CDC states your claim. Can you help?
17.09 is the closest I can get, but she's not saying 'as opposed to those who even didnt get vaccinated at all'
That's because they don't make that claim. Something like 98% of those hospitalized with the delta variant are unvaccinated, last I looked. The data just doesn't support that position. I am not even going to bother watching the clip because I know the data.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(08-20-2021, 09:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's because they don't make that claim. Something like 98% of those hospitalized with the delta variant are unvaccinated, last I looked. The data just doesn't support that position. I am not even going to bother watching the clip because I know the data.
Correct. I’m assuming the poster didn’t either. I just wanted to confirm should they want to possibly defend a baseless position.
If you got the vaccine you are going to be fine. Extremely rare cases are hospitalized and even rarer die. Some people look at any breakthrough cases as the vaccine has a problem which must be based on the belief of 100% efficacy.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
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